Match-up Discussion Baraka Match Up Discussion

[1man3letters]

[MENTION=3408]LOCO[/MENTION]

have some info ya might want to put in kabal/cage sections

some of you might of seen me sayin about the new rain armor vid that they did not test chop chop, chop chop does some weird things to armor/invicable frames
so far i can eat up,sub and reptile slide ex and also some wakeup moves that are less than the 10 wakeup frames but that has like a 70% sucess rate and has a different method than used vs cage/kabal so im trying to figure out fully before explained

anyway with cage,his armored shadow kick only has armor for 3/4 screen so if u spin cage he is knocked the distanct were it the line were the armor no longer works if he chooses to wakeup ex kick and u do either spin or chop(more damage) it will eat up the move

with kabal,i was told ex dash is invicnable on wakeup for most if not all the move(others have said this if you check the kabal forum),im hear to call bs on that becuase if u use the same setup with spin the start chop,kabals EX dash will be eatin up by chop,seeing as kabals will try ex dash through any active move beacuse 99% it works but not with our raka

exposed?? lol

ps.duno if seen this mentioned before but if raka doing chop and liu kanf flying kicks,its whiffs (like when he goes over reptiles balls)

 

[Zoidberg747]

That is absolutely amazing lol. So if you chop chop it will kill Kabal's wakeup game?

 

[1man3letters]

That is absolutely amazing lol. So if you chop chop it will kill Kabal's wakeup game?

well he can still wake up saw but the whiffing chop is to bait kabal to ex dash a whiffing/active move which is what kabals normally do (MINDGAMES!!!)
and jc can wakeup low forceball if u start chop TOO early,but what jc wake up low forceball? lol
so far ive found all long as at the distance a spin knocks you back your golden vs ex shadow kick and ex dash

ps.i havnt forgot bout the community guide post,its coming...more mindgames included :irishjig:

 

[Zoidberg747]

So do you guys think this would change the Kabal matchup from a 3-7 to a 4-6? If Baraka can get in and stop his wakeup, it might make the matchup a lot easier.

 

[1man3letters]

So do you guys think this would change the Kabal matchup from a 3-7 to a 4-6? If Baraka can get in and stop his wakeup, it might make the matchup a lot easier.

no i dont think so but maybe,im not sure....
saw still hell for a number of reason in this match and ex dash can still blow through reset pressure hence why i figured out a way to get damage on kabal by letting him use his wakeups..again TARKATAN MINDGAMES

(just like the bit of footsie info on the cage mtch wont change that drasticly also)
its just a extra tool,kabal can still saw you so it doesnt shut down his wake up and the ex dash trick only works from distancefrom a spin knockdown,"the magic distance"
also if your just within of that distance it will also eat up the command throw or it will whiff also nice to know, as i said kabal can still saw

this does not work in the corner by the way"the magic distance" is needed

 

[THTB]

Kabal vs Raka is like 3.5-6.5. If Baraka ever does get meter without losing 1/4 of his life to do so, he at least scares Kabal slightly.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Maybe so, maybe so. I faced a Kabal today and got wrecked though, it is really hard to corner him without getting cornered yourself>.>

 

[ZeroEffect]

I recently played both Javelin fangz, and [MENTION=4392]Permodius[/MENTION] in several online matches Mileena vs Baraka. We went back and forth in terms of wins/losses. Right now though, I'm inclined to say that it's likely in Baraka's favor. How much I'm not sure, but maybe 5.5/4.5.

- Blade Charge is just a problem. Sure, if Mileena blocks it she gets free roll combos, but the threat of using it to catch her backstep or punish a whiff makes it hard for Mileena to really get comfortable at her preferred range. EX Blade Charge will armor through zoning, but since he needs meter to do it, it doesn't convince her not to go back to it.

- As mentioned, Baraka's spin can be beaten with roll, or B3~roll or any other low hitbox move she has, so it's use as an interrupt is severely crippled. But more importantly, is his lack of dangerous anti-airs. He has spin and chop chop, and maybe a small juggle or two, but it's generally not enough damage to make her stay on the ground. His D1 is decent anti-air, but doesn't grant a lot of damage. It's also usually beaten by jumpkick~air sai into combo.

- She will win the zoning war just because of the threat of telekick. Baraka's projectile hits way harder than hers on trade, but one telekick and he's under pressure.

- Mil's U4 will beat Baraka's D4 if it jumps over it clean giving her 35%.

- Baraka's Slices after low poke will whiff on a crouching mileena and give her a free d3 counter poke or possibly D4/Uppercut.

The thing I'm not sure about is Baraka's footsie game vs hers. His D4 is very identical to hers, but it's hard to tell where Mileena can poke out of his half strings since 1) this was online, and 2) I don't know the block frame data on his pokes.

 

[THTB]

It's not that much in Mileena's advantage, but she sure as hell has to be on point in the neutral game. Whiffs are charge punished, easy, on reaction unless Raka's doing something.

 

[1man3letters]

nice points zero,
i know what u mean i toss back and forth on who has the advantage in that match,its very slight either way if there is an advantage so id prob call it 5-5 myself

 

[ZeroEffect]

It's not that much in Mileena's advantage, but she sure as hell has to be on point in the neutral game. Whiffs are charge punished, easy, on reaction unless Raka's doing something.

I said that it was Baraka's advantage though... although very slightly.

 

[THTB]

It's not in his favor...at least I don't think it is. I think her footsies edges his because she has overall better normals for that purpose than he does. Just he has charge to force her to know her spacing. I guess it evens it out a little bit, but she still has more control.

Then there's the situation where Baraka's full screen. It's not too bad because of EX charge, but that's with meter.

 

[Permodius]

I agree with THTB. I think it's more in her favor though. This is because her U4 blows up Baraka's main offensive tool, his D4, and Mileena's D4 out-ranges his. So instead of the usual D4 to get in you have to take more risk such as jumping which will be converted into a combo if hit by an air sai, and throwing out
blade charges to keep Mileena honest, which are punished by her roll for a full combo. Also I lose the long distance battle and need meter to keep her honest, but if it takes meter for that then the Mileena player won't mind as long as they are in the health lead. I say 6-4 Mileena.

 

[ZeroEffect]

hm, I guess... I could be wrong, as before these guys I'd never played a good Baraka post patch.

But as the Mil player, I'm always concerned that I'll get Blade Charged. Even at full screen when he has no meter. This is cause he really only needs a few steps in before Charge will stop another iAS, or any attempt to sneak in and d4. I definitely agree that she can still zone in this matchup, but she has to be very deliberate about it which makes it tougher than it looks on paper.

 

[NogunYesknife]

Ummm how is vs jax 5-5? but johnny cage 4-6?

I main JC and JAX and half the time i can zone barakas out with his projectile. And if baraka ever gets a zoning game started it dosent matter because Jax has so many tools to get in. JC is more of a challenge because you have to get in on baraka.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Johnny is pretty much a case of everything Raka can do he can do better. As for Jax you can try to wave for a while but eventually the Raka will do EX blade charge or just dash block into blade charge range. Me and [MENTION=5582]MasterHavik[/MENTION] agreed that it is probably 5.5-4.5 in Jax's favor, but I dont do .5's in my matchup charts and it is more of a 5-5 matchup than 4-6.

Post Patch Johnny is a lot easier for Baraka though. Used to it was 3-7, one of Baraka's worst for sure.

 

[davidovitch]

Played some matches against a decent Scorpion tonight. Maybe it's just me but it felt like Scorpion had the advantage.

-He can turtle with his unblockable ground fire, forcing you to jump or take some damage while approaching him. Jumping at Scorpion of course being very dangerous.

-When you finally do get close, his EX spear has armor so can turn around Baraka's pressure into a full combo for Scorpion

-His reset (or vortex) is riskier than Baraka's reset, but deals more damage

 

[Acid Hand]

I recently played both Javelin fangz, and [MENTION=4392]Permodius[/MENTION] in several online matches Mileena vs Baraka. We went back and forth in terms of wins/losses. Right now though, I'm inclined to say that it's likely in Baraka's favor. How much I'm not sure, but maybe 5.5/4.5.

J Fangz is a shared account I use with my brothers. GGs, indeed. I am surprised you gave the edge to Baraka. Initially I thought it was 5-5, but I feel now its more like 6-4 in Mileena's favor primarily because of telekicks and the fact that she can get full punishes off of a whiffed D4 by Baraka. This is based off of the little knowledge I have of this matchup and game, please do correct me if I am wrong gentlemen and feel free to comment.

 

[THTB]

Johnny is pretty much a case of everything Raka can do he can do better.

Johnny does not play a better version of Baraka's game. Baraka is really more fundamentals-oriented. Cage is rush-oriented, unless I missed that memo that he's not. If you're trying to play Baraka like he's a straight rushdown character, you lose. Bad.

 

[Qwark28]

What do i do once he gets in?i'm always read to dash back and AA but he just dashes forward,when i go for a mixup he jumps,the only damage i get is from when hes meterless and i zone and sometimes a few soul steals during the match.

i can't stop him from entering because of the ex blade charge,can't jump on him,the only option i see is poking then locking in f4 gskull but i'm not good with that since i mostly react too late if it's not blocked.

right now since he's jumping sometimes to close distance i can dash forward and AA but that's not gonna keep working.

also need some help vs his pokes,his f3 seems to beat mine and mine saves me from pressure.

Onizuka,i hate you.

 

[1man3letters]

you made this thread in both shang and baraka forums...:wut:

what everhappened to matchup discussion threads, can somebody tell me that?? :huh:


1st off baraka does not have a f3, are u talking about f4,d3,b3?

baraka with meter is scary to try zone at any time an ex charge could be thrown out, this only gets baraka "in" if its blocked, if it hits, raka knocks them down and if opp tech rolls your right back were you started unless you knocked them in the corner

if you ever jump at raka you will lose health, so dont ,simple enough
if you dont respect charge,you will lose health

projectile trades heavily favor shang because of u and down skulls and shang has much better normals/rush than baraka, its a 5-5 matchup imo
you seem to be having problems with onizuka more than raka?

i try to stay away from online nowadays but ill give you some matchs if want to try learn the matchup more (your already in my psn list :bigsmile

 

[Qwark28]

you made this thread in both shang and baraka forums...:wut:

what everhappened to matchup discussion threads, can somebody tell me that?? :huh:


1st off baraka does not have a f3, are u talking about f4,d3,b3?

baraka with meter is scary to try zone at any time an ex charge could be thrown out, this only gets baraka "in" if its blocked, if it hits, raka knocks them down and if opp tech rolls your right back were you started unless you knocked them in the corner

if you ever jump at raka you will lose health, so dont ,simple enough
if you dont respect charge,you will lose health

projectile trades heavily favor shang because of u and down skulls and shang has much better normals/rush than baraka, its a 5-5 matchup imo
you seem to be having problems with onizuka more than raka?

i try to stay away from online nowadays but ill give you some matchs if want to try learn the matchup more (your already in my psn list :bigsmile

I didn't make a duplicate thread.

i meant d3,i made the thread here because i prefer advice by experts who use that character rather than experts who use the same character as me but rarely face a baraka.

I'm already in your friends list?since when?

shang has very interruptible rushdown and requires much more prediction than baraka,everytime baraka rushes me i get caught by a f4,4 trying to get away,sometimes i'll get poked and caught in that twirly wirly blade dance.

i mostly block low and try to eat a b2 chop chop blade charge to get some space.

i get poked out of all my 50/50s 90% of the time and don't know when it's safe for me to poke.

 

[Flagg]

I didn't make a duplicate thread.

i meant d3,i made the thread here because i prefer advice by experts who use that character rather than experts who use the same character as me but rarely face a baraka.

I'm already in your friends list?since when?

shang has very interruptible rushdown and requires much more prediction than baraka,everytime baraka rushes me i get caught by a f4,4 trying to get away,sometimes i'll get poked and caught in that twirly wirly blade dance.

i mostly block low and try to eat a b2 chop chop blade charge to get some space.

i get poked out of all my 50/50s 90% of the time and don't know when it's safe for me to poke.

The problem that you are facing is that Baraka has a sure fire way to get in, and once in, it's very hard for Shang to get a good Baraka off once the pressure and mix ups begin. Even if you are blocking, Baraka can build meter pretty quickly, which is essential as he needs meter to get in on a lot of zoners to start his thing.

I dont know how you play, but I find "Shang zoners" are a nice free win. Shangs that rush down, that's another thing. Also, word of advice, if you soul steal dont go for a blade charge like 90% of Shangs that morph into him do. That move is highly punishable for the Baraka player on block with his own blade charge. You do know that Barakas df1 is safe on block? That's where you want to be implimenting pressure if you morph into him. And his spin as you know is an amazing anti air, however unless he has you in a corner, he cant really do much to you if he AA's you with it.

Barakas pokes are very good in this game, all of them. His D4 is nearly as good as Mileena and Sonyas, however his standing normals are slow, but it's all about where you are when you use them. I think Baraka is an almost perfect example of a balanced character.

There are Barakas here far better to me and you should probably defer to what they recommend, but those are just some of my tips if you want to overcome him.

 

[1man3letters]

I didn't make a duplicate thread.

i meant d3,i made the thread here because i prefer advice by experts who use that character rather than experts who use the same character as me but rarely face a baraka.

I'm already in your friends list?since when?

shang has very interruptible rushdown and requires much more prediction than baraka,everytime baraka rushes me i get caught by a f4,4 trying to get away,sometimes i'll get poked and caught in that twirly wirly blade dance.

i mostly block low and try to eat a b2 chop chop blade charge to get some space.

i get poked out of all my 50/50s 90% of the time and don't know when it's safe for me to poke.

had shang forum open same time as raka,got confused,my bad
but the part the you could of posted in the baraka matchup thread is this valid though :top:
im on your list since whenever ya added me from playing before,dunno when

b2 chop chop????? you mean f2 chop chop?
and when you say safe to poke, in what situation? what strings? you not giving very much detail to try help you with
if a player can poke out,its not the matchup anyone with 6/7 frames move can poke you
if your blocking low all day your going to eat alot of rakas overheads,hes more than just his low starter

the hit/block information on d3 is not known yet so cant help you on that,sorry

try talking raka into training mode to get more of a sense how his strings link
if ya want the short version, after a blocked 22 1+2 unless ya throwing out a armor move dont do anything and predict the mixup
same with a blocked u3

hope ya helps

 

[1man3letters]

The problem that you are facing is that Baraka has a sure fire way to get in, and once in, it's very hard for Shang to get a good Baraka off once the pressure and mix ups begin. Even if you are blocking, Baraka can build meter pretty quickly, which is essential as he needs meter to get in on a lot of zoners to start his thing.

.

baraka with meter is scary to try zone at any time an ex charge could be thrown out, this only gets baraka "in" if its blocked, if it hits, raka knocks them down and if opp tech rolls your right back were you started unless you knocked them in the corner
if a player is just going to projectile raka all day there going to eat some damage but the situation is reset at "safe"charge range, hence why i say respect the charge

outside of his blockstrings in which any char can build meter fairly easy and quickly baraka is imo poor at meter building as his projectile is very poor recovery