Bane Pre-Release General Discussion Yhread

[liljay273]

tbh i dont know why you would want old bane's moves , his new ones pretty much do the same things/ have the same outcome and imo keep the pressure more

Great video

 

[TheJaquio]

tbh i dont know why you would want old bane's moves , his new ones pretty much do the same things/ have the same outcome and imo keep the pressure more

Lots of reasons really:

-DP was safe and moved you forward to gain ground, while elbow drop has been unsafe in the videos we've seen and resets you back to where you were standing originally.
-Uppercut MB was also safeish on block, while the MB of the new Uppercut is a throw that might not come out on block (or it might since I don't think we know yet, which would change things).
-Old MB grab could change sides on demand and was a longer animation that ate up more of your debuff time, while the new animation is much faster and always switches sides.

Ultimately, we won't really know until we see the final frame data in the release build, but based on the old builds we've seen I think his Inj1 moves had more advantages.

 

[TeknoOdin]

Great video

thanks, i'm still trying to find my feet with these type of vids haha

Lots of reasons really:

-DP was safe and moved you forward to gain ground, while elbow drop has been unsafe in the videos we've seen and resets you back to where you were standing originally.
-Uppercut MB was also safeish on block, while the MB of the new Uppercut is a throw that might not come out on block (or it might since I don't think we know yet, which would change things).
-Old MB grab could change sides on demand and was a longer animation that ate up more of your debuff time, while the new animation is much faster and always switches sides.

Ultimately, we won't really know until we see the final frame data in the release build, but based on the old builds we've seen I think his Inj1 moves had more advantages.

okay i get what you mean but like i say in my video those moves, while safer on block , were counter productive .. when you hit the meter burn moves you send the opponent either full screen or 2 dashes away...thus losing your pressure but like you said we'll have to wait and see

 

[AA25Mamba]

I'm still very iffy on Injustice 2 Bane. The Double Punch being removed takes away a lot of his pressure, especially in the corner.

In INJ1:
Double Punch was a potentially armored overhead.
B2 and D1 were very good lows.
Body Press gave us an armored grab.

In INJ2 our overhead option looks very unsafe. I like that the overhead punch now has a meter burn option. It seems like the philosophy was to make Bane have drawbacks instead of 50/50 pressure with armor and a command throw option.

Overall he's going to be very similar, obviously. His speed and mobility certainly looks better. I'm not so much worried about giving away a forward advancing move as I am having one of his necessary options be very risky. At the end of the day, Bane needs these options as the debuff of Venom can be devastating.

 

[Doombawkz]

thanks, i'm still trying to find my feet with these type of vids haha



okay i get what you mean but like i say in my video those moves, while safer on block , were counter productive .. when you hit the meter burn moves you send the opponent either full screen or 2 dashes away...thus losing your pressure but like you said we'll have to wait and see

Sending them that far had it's advantages. Just them trying to claw back to your side of the screen was easily half of your level 3 debuff, meaning against some characters without safe approaches (Killer Frost, catwoman to some extent) against his long limbs, those character essentially had to fight you at buffed mode at all times.

The full screen is exactly why Grundy is an 8-2 or better in our favor. It's not just our grab immunity, it's that we could burn level 3 whenever we wanted to snuff his game because he couldn't get back in on us to punish us.

Also when you got them in the corner, the extended animations which pushed your opponents so far away midscreen played into your advantage, giving you more time to do dirty set-ups.

Counterproductive is one way to look at it, but smart Bane play found the time and place. Double punch (sans meter burn) left them close enough to where we could do a dash-in d.1 and bust through 90% of wake-ups and tech roll options. Uppercut basically did the same minus dash (assuming, again, you didn't burn meter). One of Bane's biggest advantages is that he ALWAYS had meter because he just got his armor for free, meaning should we ever need the option to have a full screen between us, we could have it, and thanks to trait we weren't forced to take the option to blow up opponent options.

Like say, Zod whose best wake-up option with meter put the opponent somewhat outside of footsie range, but it's the trade he had to make to get that armor.

 

[freerf245]

Bane is on my list of potential mains. He was my secondary in injustice 1 and he looks just as fun in injustice 2. I'm gonna miss screaming "BACK BREAKER" along with him though.

 

[MisguidedAngel]

There are two things I1 Bane players will now have to fear:

1.possibly using their brain sometimes

2. Sub-Zero getting clone in his core move-set.

 

[freerf245]

There are two things I1 Bane players will now have to fear:

1.possibly using their brain sometimes

2. Sub-Zero getting clone in his core move-set.

Oh shit

 

[Wetdoba]

Lol if Sub does have clone who cares, reversal command grab will eat it alive. Clone doesnt break armor and command grab already catches backdashes so even if he moved backwards for it hes still getting these hands. Not to mention level 3 F2, F2D, charge or ground pound super.

 

[LEGI0N47]

tbh i dont know why you would want old bane's moves , his new ones pretty much do the same things/ have the same outcome and imo keep the pressure more

Only bummer so far is that from what we've seen you can't decide which side to place your opponent after a MB throw. That was a really nice feature in the first game. Other than that I have to agree that the new moves look pretty good in comparison. Final judgment will some when we see the frame data.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Tbh my top concern with Bane so far is that the debuff seems super harsh, to the point that I'm probably never going level 3 unless I know it'll kill.

The loss of safe elbow is gonna take some adjusting I know that much, shit is built into my muscle memory even after not touching the game for so long. Actually I'm confused about the purpose of the new elbow, when would you even want to use it? Just to force a risky 50/50 so they'll eventually stand block?

First thing I'll try is MBing venom uppercut on block, what's gonna happen there?

 

[freerf245]

Tbh my top concern with Bane so far is that the debuff seems super harsh, to the point that I'm probably never going level 3 unless I know it'll kill.

The loss of safe elbow is gonna take some adjusting I know that much, shit is built into my muscle memory even after not touching the game for so long. Actually I'm confused about the purpose of the new elbow, when would you even want to use it? Just to force a risky 50/50 so they'll eventually stand block?

First thing I'll try is MBing venom uppercut on block, what's gonna happen there?

Probably nothing. Or he'll whiff a grab in midair.

 

[TheJaquio]

My biggest concern is just the safety of bf2; I can live with the other adjustments. Doublepunch was so central to Bane's gameplan in Inj1 because it was a safe but low damage option to mix with grab, and with his slow ass normals (the fastest being a 9 frame high) bf2 naked or off a d1/d2 was a primary way to mount an offense. All the videos we've seen so far show it as being easily full combo punished but still netting minor damage, so I'm not sure how he will mount a respectable offense without getting his high risk/low reward elbow drop blown up bigtime or his super slow normals stuffed left and right.

We have to wait and see final frame data to be sure, but what do you guys think will be his pressure gameplan without a safe special or fast normals?

 

[freerf245]

I like the bf2 change. No more mashing bf2 with venom and force your opponent to block till they're hit with a 32% command grab.

Bane is no longer about hitting the B/Circle button then turning off your brain for 15 or so seconds. He takes some thought and management which is why I think he'll be more fun this time around. And he'll still be strong.

 

[Wetdoba]

My biggest concern is just the safety of bf2; I can live with the other adjustments. Doublepunch was so central to Bane's gameplan in Inj1 because it was a safe but low damage option to mix with grab, and with his slow ass normals (the fastest being a 9 frame high) bf2 naked or off a d1/d2 was a primary way to mount an offense. All the videos we've seen so far show it as being easily full combo punished but still netting minor damage, so I'm not sure how he will mount a respectable offense without getting his high risk/low reward elbow drop blown up bigtime or his super slow normals stuffed left and right.

We have to wait and see final frame data to be sure, but what do you guys think will be his pressure gameplan without a safe special or fast normals?

Overheads, lows, comand grabs, plus frames, low crushes, meterless armor,and oki same as the last game except now he will have legitmiate footsies becayse of his gdlk walkspeed. Just because meterless armor is unsafe doesnt mean he has no pressure lol. The only way to prevent armor into armor into armor into armor on block is to make it unsafe and we still have safe armor with MB B3. Instead of just doing shit because we could well have to use armor on reaction to their moves, get the knock down, then its the same old rediculous oki weve always had. I dont know why everyones so worried. We got a fucking slap on the wrist compred to the normalizations everyone else got

 

[LaidbackOne]

Since when does being unsafe = keeping pressure? Not that i think doublepunch should be safe since it was pretty derpy in IGAU.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

I hope you're right man, but he's gonna be very different as we can't bulldoze over people anymore lol. That was what made him so fun but we'll see. I'm staying positive till we get our hands on the actual game.

 

[The PantyChrist]

You guys realize he has to be less safe than i1 right?

 

[TheJaquio]

Overheads, lows, comand grabs, plus frames, low crushes, meterless armor,and oki same as the last game except now he will have legitmiate footsies becayse of his gdlk walkspeed. Just because meterless armor is unsafe doesnt mean he has no pressure lol. The only way to prevent armor into armor into armor into armor on block is to make it unsafe and we still have safe armor with MB B3. Instead of just doing shit because we could well have to use armor on reaction to their moves, get the knock down, then its the same old rediculous oki weve always had. I dont know why everyones so worried. We got a fucking slap on the wrist compred to the normalizations everyone else got

I haven't abandoned ship or anything like that, and I'm still staying open minded. I'm just trying to open up a dialog about how people think he will play the neutral with the changes, so there's no need to get worked up. His specials are much riskier now, his normals have never been good in the neutral for the most part, and walk speed buff is mostly universal, so it's not outlandish to suggest that maybe he might struggle in the neutral. Either way, I'd rather have a speculative conversation about it rather than having everyone keep their opinions to themselves until release, otherwise why are we even here?

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

Ok wait. How have his normals not been good in neutral? His d2 and d1 literally dictated certain matches. Part of the reason he had some lopsided match ups were the fact he was a fortress between d1 and d2. In debuff certain characters could still barely approach. With the new f2 changes he will control his own space even better.

 

[Wetdoba]

Bane has a total of 3 unsafe moves on block as of now: F2, elbow, uppercut

If he does any other move and they block it, whether its plus or minus, it is still his turn. It had to happen, he cannot keep safe meterless armored reversals that are also a mix up between grab or block

The walkspeeds may have been increased for everyone but even after that Bane looks like he has one of the best in the game easily which is insane for a grappler. He got a slap on the wrist making his meterless armor unsafe but he gained so much more utility its insane. Level 3 debuff doesnt even concern me because if they survive the round through a full cycle of level 1 -> 2 -> 3 then they deserve a turn to make us block lol. Blocking is going to be even easier too since the mix ups for everyone else are toned down too, plus we have mb b3, pushblock, and mb combo breakers too.

 

[TheJaquio]

Ok wait. How have his normals not been good in neutral? His d2 and d1 literally dictated certain matches. Part of the reason he had some lopsided match ups were the fact he was a fortress between d1 and d2. In debuff certain characters could still barely approach. With the new f2 changes he will control his own space even better.

That's why I qualified it with "for the most part," with d2 and d1 specifically being the exceptions. It was mostly a response to talking about his plus frames, overheads, low starters, etc (though d1xxbf2 will still be a low starter of sorts, but now death on block by the looks of it).

 

[LaidbackOne]

Btw I never understood why F2D was safe and F2 wasn't. Any clues?

 

[Wetdoba]

Like Im still baffled they left level 3 as strong as it was, cant wait to stuff fucking supers with normals again lmao

 

[TheJaquio]

Bane has a total of 3 unsafe moves on block as of now: F2, elbow, uppercut

If he does any other move and they block it, whether its plus or minus, it is still his turn. It had to happen, he cannot keep safe meterless armored reversals that are also a mix up between grab or block

The walkspeeds may have been increased for everyone but even after that Bane looks like he has one of the best in the game easily which is insane for a grappler. He got a slap on the wrist making his meterless armor unsafe but he gained so much more utility its insane. Level 3 debuff doesnt even concern me because if they survive the round through a full cycle of level 1 -> 2 -> 3 then they deserve a turn to make us block lol. Blocking is going to be even easier too since the mix ups for everyone else are toned down too, plus we have mb b3, pushblock, and mb combo breakers too.

I don't disagree about not being able to chain bf2 into more armor being fair. I'm just cautious about assuming that his increased walkspeed will be enough to out footsie or open up opponents without relying on mixups or armored reads that are death on block/jump. For all intents and purposes I hope you're right.