Match-up Discussion Bane Matchup Discussion

[BiPolarExxpress]

Yeah I remember you getting mad and yelling at me like "WHY DOES MB FLIPKICK HAVE ARMOR"

I'm reasonable. I get mad when flash parry doesn't work =(

 

[RoboCop]

How do you guys approach the Harley MU? I've got a friend who is basically the best Harley player I know, and it's one of the most frustrating matchups I've played. Her size and moveset put her into some sort of negative zone where 90% of what Bane tries to do just phases through her. She can keep him out easily enough with her assortment of ranged attacks, and she can punish RC well enough for that to not be a great option for getting in. Once in, her speed and mixups can overwhelm Bane pretty handily, and she's very difficult to pressure on WU. I know a big part of the issue is I just don't know her mixups or frame data, but I was wondering if there was any good strategy for fighting her that I'm missing.

 

[Doombawkz]

Same as Batgirl in a way. You get in, force a life lead, and then make her come in. If you stand at about mid-range, you can usually dash in and punish jumping guns or cupcake bomb, while also being able to d.1 and d.2 her usual approach methods. Don't try and go too ham because her wake-up silly slide is a bit of a bitch to deal with (though you can BP it), and her normals are slightly faster. You should use proper spacing and intelligent punishes, and go for maximum damage enders followed by a dip back out to that neutral sweet spot.

Thats just imo.

 

[RoboCop]

So what is Bane supposed to do against MMH? Just played @Krayzie's and it was ugly. Between the multi-hitting b3, that overhead TP, and the sphere/ground blast zoning, I really couldn't figure out a good way to approach the MU. Especially on WU, I could never figure out a consistent way to keep up pressure. A blocked MB VU meant a full combo punish. Using DP against TP WU meant a full combo punish. Using RC against TP meant a full-combo punish. No way to punish MMH's b3, as far as I can tell, so after a blocked overhead TP, he could just b3 or mb.b3 and I really didn't have much of an answer.

It was also difficult to try to play the mu patiently because every second I hesitated was a second closer he was to getting his trait back. Any mistake on my part would lead to a combo and being sent full screen, where I had to navigate his zoning again and be spontaneous enough to not allow him to b3 punish me once I got in.

Finally, it seems that every single one of MMH's specials is throw immune. I would rush in as he misplaced a ground blast behind me, only to have my BP whiff as he finished his ground blast animation. The same thing happened with the downward sky blast and the sphere. This basically means Bane can't use BP except in combos because the risk is too high. A whiffed BP is met with a full-combo punish and full-screen knockback. I'm totally at a loss.

 

[Doombawkz]

You can BP teleports before they come out, but after he is counted as airborn. Try ring tossing him instead.

On wake-up, body press is the go-to answer. Blows through everything with the right timing. He has no grab immune specials to my knowledge.

As far as pressure goes, d.1 and d.2 aggressively. If you can force him to play recklessly then it's not too bad. His zoning is ok, but not great. If you get about 50% on him he is gonna have to get in. Outside of that, play it with a lot of dp and when his trait is down play it patiently but close. Your peak d.2 range is best. Try baiting him to act and stay in that spot.

 

[RoboCop]

Ring Toss seems like a bad idea, since if I make the wrong read I eat a full combo, but if I make the correct read, I deal ~10% and am left in the same situation.

What would you recommend as post-BP pressure, since you can't get out another BP in time to catch his other wu's? As far as grab-immune specials, it seemed like everything he did was grab-immune. I had at least one BP whiff against each of his specials due to grab immunity.

As far as pressure goes, it's a lot easier said that done. Bane's armor means nothing in this mu due to that damn multi-hitting b3. If he blocks anything that leaves Bane at disadvantage then he can do it freely without worrying about another armored DP or anything else.

@Krayzie didn't abuse the TP nearly as much as he could have. A blocked TP leaves MMH outside of d1 and d2 range. That means Bane would have to walk forward or dash to continue pressure, but that leaves MMH free to just walk backwards or use a preemptive b3. I'd like to see a good Bane fight against an MMH that just used overhead TP and b3 just to see how bad it is for Bane.

 

[Krayzie]

I was actually learning the match-up that morning, and I'm glad I did because I needed it to get out of my pool.

Almost everything Martian does is throw immune, the double hitting B3 is great against Bane, and the orb and pillars work great at a distance.

I feel like your best bet is Banes D1, and Level 3 venom when you get him in the corner.

 

[4x4lo8o]

On wake-up, body press is the go-to answer. Blows through everything with the right timing. He has no grab immune specials to my knowledge.

Noooooooo. Don't do command grab on Martian's wake up. Everything he has except push(both teleports, pillar, meteor, and orb) has a ton of throw immune frames. And if you go for a grab and he does wake up teleport you're eating 40%. The only wake up you would ever want to use grab on is Push and even then it's risky enough that you might want to try a different option

Everything he has on wake up except for push is stuffable. B23 is excellent if you think he's going to wake up teleport. If you think he's going to WU Push double punch works alright but Push does enough damage that he might be happy just trading push with double punch over and over if he has a life lead. A delayed mb Venom Uppercut will beat both teleport and push. This works extremely well in the corner.

I think d1xxdouble punch is also a good option against MMH on knockdown. It should beat all his wake ups if timed right.



The post overhead teleport meta sucks for Bane as far as I can tell. MMH just has much better options. If possible I think you want to mb b3 or VU on reaction to teleport as much as you can

 

[4x4lo8o]

MB f3 beats all MMH's wake ups as well, including Super. Although the timing is weird and the way it launches overhead teleport makes the combo strange

 

[Doombawkz]

Noooooooo. Don't do command grab on Martian's wake up. Everything he has except push(both teleports, pillar, meteor, and orb) has a ton of throw immune frames. And if you go for a grab and he does wake up teleport you're eating 40%. The only wake up you would ever want to use grab on is Push and even then it's risky enough that you might want to try a different option

Everything he has on wake up except for push is stuffable. B23 is excellent if you think he's going to wake up teleport. If you think he's going to WU Push double punch works alright but Push does enough damage that he might be happy just trading push with double punch over and over if he has a life lead. A delayed mb Venom Uppercut will beat both teleport and push. This works extremely well in the corner.

I think d1xxdouble punch is also a good option against MMH on knockdown. It should beat all his wake ups if timed right.



The post overhead teleport meta sucks for Bane as far as I can tell. MMH just has much better options. If possible I think you want to mb b3 or VU on reaction to teleport as much as you can

Thats weird, I never have trouble with them. Then again I spend my time doing just-frames so maybe its just me lol. It could be unreliable but habitual.
If you have to do something, doing a meaty charge sometimes works too from my experience. If you do it late enough it'll still crush through his options and his teleports will land on your hitbox giving you the knockdown. d.1xxDP is risky because a lot of his options outdamage it so you'll be losing in trade. That being said, all of the wake-ups you listed aren't invulnerable on wake-up (or no more than Aquaman or DD) so I don't see why he would be using those against Bane unless he is expecting the BP, and even then as I said I never find trouble going through it.

d.2xxcharge is a magic marker in the MU I've found. The timing is a bit meh but its not too shabby.

d.1xxDP isn't bad but as been said, its not really good for trades.

Post-OH tele meta isn't too bad for us actually. Yeah I mean its better to react but if you can't its not all bad. Throw a loose d.2xxDP. Worst come to, he backs off and the DP doesn't come out because of the whiff frames taking priority, and best come to he tries to jump in and you AA him for full combo.

 

[Shaazzyam]

How's the Bane WoWo MU, guys?

 

[Doombawkz]

Ring Toss seems like a bad idea, since if I make the wrong read I eat a full combo, but if I make the correct read, I deal ~10% and am left in the same situation.

What would you recommend as post-BP pressure, since you can't get out another BP in time to catch his other wu's? As far as grab-immune specials, it seemed like everything he did was grab-immune. I had at least one BP whiff against each of his specials due to grab immunity.

As far as pressure goes, it's a lot easier said that done. Bane's armor means nothing in this mu due to that damn multi-hitting b3. If he blocks anything that leaves Bane at disadvantage then he can do it freely without worrying about another armored DP or anything else.

@Krayzie didn't abuse the TP nearly as much as he could have. A blocked TP leaves MMH outside of d1 and d2 range. That means Bane would have to walk forward or dash to continue pressure, but that leaves MMH free to just walk backwards or use a preemptive b3. I'd like to see a good Bane fight against an MMH that just used overhead TP and b3 just to see how bad it is for Bane.

If you say so. Everyone says the grabs whiff but I never have trouble with it. As far as RT goes, I just mean after the tele if you need to grab him then go for RT as a punish since he is airborn. Don't have it as a go-to though the situation after isn't that bad.

Post BP pressure, maybe d.2 charge but you can basically read my previous response for my opinion on it.

In neutral, if he lacks trait you can try abusing the long range normals and for the love of god, don't go level 3 in the corner unless its a kill. He is a character you need to keep on because he is annoying to chase, so loop level 2 at the most. You can still snag 50%+ off of it but the cooldown is decently managable.

 

[Rev_]

How's the Bane WoWo MU, guys?

seems even to me. if you dont know how to block her though were done. she has the tools to beat bane, it just comes down to mu knowledge imo

 

[Doombawkz]

seems even to me. if you dont know how to block her though were done. she has the tools to beat bane, it just comes down to mu knowledge imo

^ this x1000.
Learn to block her shit, and learn how far your d.1/d.2 reaches and you've got as 5-5 as it'll ever be.

 

[Shaazzyam]

seems even to me. if you dont know how to block her though were done. she has the tools to beat bane, it just comes down to mu knowledge imo

Does she have any answer to Bane's armor pressure?

Also, stop ducking me Rev pls....

 

[Doombawkz]

Does she have any answer to Bane's armor pressure?

Also, stop ducking me Rev pls....

MB b.3, which is universal. Also, decent mobility, MB tiara from a distance where you aren't punching her in the face, and I think b.2xxlasso grab from distances where you are thinking about punching her in the face.
Also Mb demi and MB dive.

 

[Shaazzyam]

MB b.3, which is universal. Also, decent mobility, MB tiara from a distance where you aren't punching her in the face, and I think b.2xxlasso grab from distances where you are thinking about punching her in the face.
Also Mb demi and MB dive.

So her mobility/Demi is probably her best bet. I see. Thanks Banenanas

 

[Doombawkz]

So her mobility/Demi is probably her best bet. I see. Thanks Banenanas

Not so much mobility but the fact that she has mobility and Demi/Dive is the best bet. Her mobility is actually not great, its good but nothing to write home about. Its her dipping just out of DP range that screws us.

 

[4x4lo8o]

That being said, all of the wake-ups you listed aren't invulnerable on wake-up (or no more than Aquaman or DD) so I don't see why he would be using those against Bane unless he is expecting the BP, and even then as I said I never find trouble going through it.

I need to go into practice mode before I address the rest of the stuff you're saying(in my experience all his wake ups besides push are basically unthrowable and even if they have throwable windows I don't think they overlap in a way that makes going for command grab a good option, I'll have to lab it up later) but close MB Orb and MB Pillar in conjuction with mb b3 and push(which make you want to back off or block) are very good wake ups for Martian. They might be less good against Bane because of all his options but a MMH player could easily be throwing them out from habit or because he knows they're throw immune and that Bane players like to Command Grab.

 

[Doombawkz]

I need to go into practice mode before I address the rest of the stuff you're saying(in my experience all his wake ups besides push are basically unthrowable and even if they have throwable windows I don't think they overlap in a way that makes going for command grab a good option, I'll have to lab it up later) but close MB Orb and MB Pillar in conjuction with mb b3 and push(which make you want to back off or block) are very good wake ups for Martian. They might be less good against Bane because of all his options but a MMH player could easily be throwing them out from habit or because he knows they're throw immune and that Bane players like to Command Grab.

While true, spending that necessary bar isn't always the best option. Whats more is if the Bane player is careful about it, he can blow through all of those (mb b.3 included) by doing the basic lead-in. Banes may like to command grab, but at the same time we aren't one trick ponies and we will change it up if it stops working. As far as the grab immunity goes, as I said I personally don't have too much trouble with it but then I have my timings down packed so yeah. I know we can f.3 a lot of his stuff safely because we can dead-zone push

Like so. We don't need meter for most of it as well, though a well timed Mb b.3 does throw a spanner in the works its nothing we can't work around.

 

[RoboCop]

From my experience, anyone who says this is a 5/5 mu is delusional.

 

[Doombawkz]

From my experience, anyone who says this is a 5/5 mu is delusional.

Which one? WW or MMH?
Because both are 5-5s for different reasons.

 

[4x4lo8o]

From my experience, anyone who says this is a 5/5 mu is delusional.

MMH or WoWo?

I think MMH is definitely a losing match up for Bane. I sorta think Bane beats WW though. The only thing she really has is her air mobility, and I don't think it's enough. She's pretty screwed once she gets knocked over

 

[Doombawkz]

MMH or WoWo?

I think MMH is definitely a losing match up for Bane.

I'll say this.
MMH is as much a losing MU for Bane as Superman is a death MU for Bane.
You need to know what the hell you are doing, but Bane has all the tools to make it even.

 

[RoboCop]

Mmh