Aw, C'mon Puddin' -- Harley Quinn General Discussion Thread

[Ronald_A_Knox]

i appreciate that you're staying positive. And I'm sure Harley will still be a viable character. But my enthusiasm for this game has been extinguished. 2D3 was literally my favorite part of playing Harley because I love frame trap mindgames, and it was still COMPLETELY counterable with back dash/wake-up attack/armor. I am so sad now.

Finding new tech is always good. Being a Marvel player at one point gave me perspective on it. Morrigan was a trash useless tier before her soul fist cancel was found and look where she is now. Characters change due to tech. Of course it's bullshit when NRS considers Superman frametraps just fine and Harley's stuff which was barely a frametrap to begin with gets nerfed. But hey, all the more satisfying to find new stuff and don't just cling to jumping at Aquaman like those who defend the nerf(or even probably those who caused it) do.

 

[serge]

Guys we are fine.
The 2D3 isn't that big of a deal in fact I have never used it and I have been doing pretty damn good with Harley for someone who started fighting games a couple months ago.

And for the overhead issue, F3 is soooo good as Ronald_A_Knox pointed out.

 

[Eshi]

Finding new tech is always good. Being a Marvel player at one point gave me perspective on it. Morrigan was a trash useless tier before her soul fist cancel was found and look where she is now. Characters change due to tech. Of course it's bullshit when NRS considers Superman frametraps just fine and Harley's stuff which was barely a frametrap to begin with gets nerfed. But hey, all the more satisfying to find new stuff and don't just cling to jumping at Aquaman like those who defend the nerf(or even probably those who caused it) do.

Okay. I'll stay positive and keep exploring. I mean, I figured out her F13 instant overhead on my own... there could still be tech left to find. And she's still decent in neutral because of air guns and silly slide and F3/B3. Losing such a strong tool sucks but whining isn't gonna bring it back...

 

[xWEBSx]

Okay. I'll stay positive and keep exploring. I mean, I figured out her F13 instant overhead on my own... there could still be tech left to find. And she's still decent in neutral because of air guns and silly slide and F3/B3. Losing such a strong tool sucks but whining isn't gone bring it back...

Atta boy!!! Have it it man!!!

 

[nightE89]

Hey Ronald or any1 lol, think its possible to post a vid of her F3 lead in combos

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

Hey Ronald or any1 lol, think its possible to post a vid of her F3 lead in combos

Would love to, but no recording equipment.

 

[KamkaziChicila]

Hey Ronald or any1 lol, think its possible to post a vid of her F3 lead in combos

I'll work on it in a bit. Hopefully have it up by the end of the day

 

[FlipinFlava]

i'm trying really hard to not start acting like a dick to these people who don't understand that the 2d3 nerf is a huge loss for a character who was already bad before this patch

 

[nightE89]

I'll work on it in a bit. Hopefully have it up by the end of the day

Cool thanks man, but I do got to say I really didnt use her 2D3 as much, for some reason I couldn't add it in my fights. wish I could of now

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

Cool thanks man, but I do got to say I really didnt use her 2D3 as much, for some reason I couldn't add it in my fights. wish I could of now

Much like my F3 shenanigans, 2D3 was nessesary to break a solid defense where cross-ups can't work(the opponent has anti-airs and is smart enough to use them, for example). If you ever lost to a patient defender, you know how Harley is struggling to beat turtling. 2d3 allowed for mixups. Now it's gone and we need to move on, find new mixups to deal with the turtle matchups.

 

[xWEBSx]

i'm trying really hard to not start acting like a dick to these people who don't understand that the 2d3 nerf is a huge loss for a character who was already bad before this patch

I was close to going ape shit on people.. But I opted to find other avenues..

I am still majorly pissed that they decided to NERF mid- tier outright without even a reach around... WITH a glaringly broken ass trait still unusable...that principle makes me say.. NRS.. what the FUCK?!

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

I was close to going ape shit on people.. But I opted to find other avenues..

I am still majorly pissed that they decided to NERF mid- tier outright without even a reach around... WITH a glaringly broken ass trait still unusable...that principle makes me say.. NRS.. what the FUCK?!

And Deathstroke players are whining their low gunshots are now punishable in around TS range. They know nothing of weakness.

Anyway, webs, we really need to forget about whining and focus at solving the issue at hand. If you ever feel like to vent, my PM box is always open. Much better than here.

 

[FlipinFlava]

I was close to going ape shit on people.. But I opted to find other avenues..

I am still majorly pissed that they decided to NERF mid- tier outright without even a reach around... WITH a glaringly broken ass trait still unusable...that principle makes me say.. NRS.. what the FUCK?!

yeah i know. i'm kinda being a hypocrite because i was saying earlier we should get past it, but whatever, i'm bored at work haha

 

[nightE89]

yeah i know. i'm kinda being a hypocrite because i was saying earlier we should get past it, but whatever, i'm bored at work haha

I hear ya on that, I just want to play harley and batgirl when I get off work.

 

[Velvet Sack]

The change to 2d3 hurts her badly against players who don't know how to block against her in the first place. As it was, it allowed for continued b2 xx slide block pressure. Throw whiffed and f2 was a fuzzyable as ever. As it is now, players will likely try to poke out or attempt a reversal attack, which can be met with a counterpoke, mb b3 or block+punish if you are reading your opponent well. The nerf was probably unnecessary, but it's nothing to throw a hissyfit or threaten to quit the game over. Let's not shit ourselves.

 

[ShinSenkai]

After a few hours at work and allowing myself time to calm down I've reached this conclusion. The individuals in the HQ society who deem 2D3 as not a big deal or say they didn't use it and did fine here's the thing. You have probably not played good players for one, or haven't played good players that were familiar with a good HQ and her move set. If you managed to consistently hit raw F2's or open your opponents up without the need of her 2D3 or any other frame trap then chances are they are not good players to begin with hence why you get away with a lackluster offence.

HOWEVER, (and this is important) HQ still has other frame traps!

A blocked F2,3 actually has MORE advantage than 2D3 BUT slower start up and put her slightly further away. The reason why 2D3 was the best was because of its relatively quick start up and perfect positioning. But F2,3 allows for B2,2 set ups, instant overhead or command throw mix ups too. This is the second best alternative in terms of frame trapping strings.

1,1,2
B1,2
B2,2 also leave her a semi-significant advantage on block and can blow people up for pressing buttons. 2D3 was the best string but now we're forced to make the best of what we have.

 

[Velvet Sack]

After a few hours at work and allowing myself time to calm down I've reached this conclusion. The individuals in the HQ society who deem 2D3 as not a big deal or say they didn't use it and did fine here's the thing. You have probably not played good players for one, or haven't played good players that were familiar with a good HQ and her move set.

If you were playing opponents who were consistenly getting wrecked by 2d3 mixups, those are more likely to be players who don't understand Harley's move set.

 

[xWEBSx]

After a few hours at work and allowing myself time to calm down I've reached this conclusion. The individuals in the HQ society who deem 2D3 as not a big deal or say they didn't use it and did fine here's the thing. You have probably not played good players for one, or haven't played good players that were familiar with a good HQ and her move set. If you managed to consistently hit raw F2's or open your opponents up without the need of her 2D3 or any other frame trap then chances are they are not good players to begin with hence why you get away with a lackluster offence.

HOWEVER, (and this is important) HQ still has other frame traps!

A blocked F2,3 actually has MORE advantage than 2D3 BUT slower start up and put her slightly further away. The reason why 2D3 was the best was because of its relatively quick start up and perfect positioning. But F2,3 allows for B2,2 set ups, instant overhead or command throw mix ups too. This is the second best alternative in terms of frame trapping strings.

1,1,2
B1,2
B2,2 also leave her a semi-significant advantage on block and can blow people up for pressing buttons. 2D3 was the best string but now we're forced to make the best of what we have.

If you were playing opponents who were consistenly getting wrecked by 2d3 mixups, those are more likely to be players who don't understand Harley's move set.

I was afraid of this happening....

Shin, I love your work and drive, but the first part came off kid of snarky... Lighten up man

Velvet- this isn't a pissing match- we need to come together... Not a personal attack.. Relax and contribute.. Nothing but love of Harley!

 

[ShinSenkai]

I was afraid of this happening....

Shin, I love your work and drive, but the first part came off kid of snarky... Lighten up man

I do apologise, but its really gotten to me that our own players aren't acknowledging this as a legitimate loss and telling the rest of us its not a big deal at all or play down how useful if was. Especially the people who say "oh well now you just have to find another way to get in." We know this. We know its gone. We know we have to find new tech. But it's like taking away from a mid tier character makes no sense. We have every reason to be upset.

If you were playing opponents who were consistenly getting wrecked by 2d3 mixups, those are more likely to be players who don't understand Harley's move set.

Players who consistently get hit by mix ups are the ones who don't understand you say? Seriously? They're called mix ups for a reason. a toss up between highs, lows, throws, command throws, delayed pressure, overheads. 2D3 instilled fear in the opponent conditioning them not to press buttons after blocking that string. From there it no longer needs to be a frame trap and can be adapted into an easy mind game Harley is dictating. Any how, each to their own. I will stop commenting on this 2D3 tragedy for good now. Its truly time to move on.

Lol at this point I'm actually at a cross road. Persevere with HQ, or give Batgirl or Catwoman a try. Or just go back to SF and SC :-\ .

 

[xWEBSx]

I do apologise, but its really gotten to me that our own players aren't acknowledging this as a legitimate loss and telling the rest of us its not a big deal at all or play down how useful if was. Especially the people who say "oh well now you just have to find another way to get in." We know this. We know its gone. We know we have to find new tech. But it's like taking away from a mid tier character makes no sense. We have every reason to be upset.



Players who consistently get hit by mix ups are the ones who don't understand you say? Seriously? They're called mix ups for a reason. a toss up between highs, lows, throws, command throws, delayed pressure, overheads. 2D3 instilled fear in the opponent conditioning them not to press buttons after blocking that string. From there it no longer needs to be a frame trap and can be adapted into an easy mind game Harley is dictating. Any how, each to their own. I will stop commenting on this 2D3 tragedy for good now. Its truly time to move on.

Lol at this point I'm actually at a cross road. Persevere with HQ, or give Batgirl or Catwoman a try. Or just go back to SF and SC :-\ .

Understand your frustration man... But we need all the help we can get.. Stay with us, stay with Harley.. The haters/whiners/untrue will fall off and we will still be standing .. Game is wayyyyyy to young to give up on as a whole.. Stay with us Shin

 

[Brahma]

Losing 2d3 really sucks.

Moving forward, here's something I asked a while ago and didn't get much of an answer on. I see a lot of people end combos with doctor throw for damage. What are you guys doing after you land doctor throw?

 

[marc]

I've always been a top tier character player. Mostly, because I was a weak player. Now, as I've grown from playing SF Turbo, mvc2, and ssfae.... I really don't like the fact that it's easier to win with those characters. I need the hard fight and I demand it to be difficult to impossible to win some match-ups. This is where I am and how I draw fun from the game. I may be the crazy one in saying this, but I feel making harley harder is a buff. She was never meant to be easy in the first place in my personal opinion. I'll be here with you cats and I'll let you know what little if anything I learn (since most of you are way more on top of it than I am), but I'm one of the few that are happy.

For the first time in my fighting game life I'm picking the characters where you have to think, and wasn't that the point of fighting games in the first place?

Thank you all for contributing and helping me improve. I'll try my hardest to give back to the community.

Much love.
Xboxlive -- Unformedtub4

 

[xWEBSx]

I've always been a top tier character player. Mostly, because I was a weak player. Now, as I've grown from playing SF Turbo, mvc2, and ssfae.... I really don't like the fact that it's easier to win with those characters. I need the hard fight and I demand it to be difficult to impossible to win some match-ups. This is where I am and how I draw fun from the game. I may be the crazy one in saying this, but I feel making harley harder is a buff. She was never meant to be easy in the first place in my personal opinion. I'll be here with you cats and I'll let you know what little if anything I learn (since most of you are way more on top of it than I am), but I'm one of the few that are happy.

For the first time in my fighting game life I'm picking the characters where you have to think, and wasn't that the point of fighting games in the first place?

Thank you all for contributing and helping me improve. I'll try my hardest to give back to the community.

Much love.
Xboxlive -- Unformedtub4

I support this message.. Contribute where you can, help where you can, have fun always.. Should be our damn motto

 

[xWEBSx]

Losing 2d3 really sucks.

Moving forward, here's something I asked a while ago and didn't get much of an answer on. I see a lot of people end combos with doctor throw for damage. What are you guys doing after you land doctor throw?

Not a PD fan.. Honestly I find it best to use on a sleeping enemy during TS forward roll, or SS right into their face.. Seems to catch them off guard and PD is LAST thing they are expecting. I find the input awkward and do not find the damage worth it to me.

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

Not a PD fan.. Honestly I find it best to use on a sleeping enemy during TS forward roll, or SS right into their face.. Seems to catch them off guard and PD is LAST thing they are expecting. I find the input awkward and do not find the damage worth it to me.

I couldnt disagree more. Most people who have an idea of harleys moveset will block low, causing a raw PD to whiff over their head. If youre looking for a grab then grab them.

Anyways after a PD ender when the opponent is still healthy i b22 or TS
If theyre dying ill PD, backdash, and proceed with guns n cakes

Also, ending in PD isnt for damage as much as it is for the standing reset, although the MB version is probly the best ender in terms of damage anyway. Giving certain opponents the option to do an invincible wakeup attack to you is a no no sometimes, so standing reset and pressure whatever you like to do in that range at neutral