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Aw, C'mon Puddin' -- Harley Quinn General Discussion Thread

FlipinFlava

FlipinFlava

Kuya Andy
Let's move past it guys. It's obvious he's not playing high-level competition like the guy who was saying f2 was a great overhead.
 
Ronald_A_Knox

Ronald_A_Knox

Clipeum Aurea
FlipinFlava said:
Let's move past it guys. It's obvious he's not playing high-level competition like the guy who was saying f2 was a great overhead.
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We need to come up with some way of touching a crouching opponent. That doesn't involve jumping, because as amazing her crossup may be, if that is her only option, then matchups with good AAs are unwinnable now.
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
We need to have this unite us.. Not divide us. He admitted he did not use it in his play style (which is fine) and asked about its potential use pre patch.

So the move had plus frames on block- some say +12, I saw around +10, now it is 0 on block.. Could not even grant us a +6 for chrissakes...

The nerf does not cripple her.. It hurts her.. We can get over this, we can succeed.
 
Some Dude

Some Dude

Noob
I imagine they nerfed it because they didn't intend for her to really have a strong rushdown game. I figure they intend her to be played more midscreen. Can't say I really agree with it since she doesn't seem to be strong enough there to justify having so few options up close, but whatever. I'll adapt instead of getting too hung up over it.

At least F23 can still be used in a similar way.
 
Ronald_A_Knox

Ronald_A_Knox

Clipeum Aurea
Some Dude said:
I imagine they nerfed it because they didn't intend for her to really have a strong rushdown game. I figure they intend her to be played more midscreen. Can't say I really agree with it since she doesn't seem to be strong enough there to justify having so few options up close, but whatever. I'll adapt instead of getting too hung up over it.

At least F23 can still be used in a similar way.
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Raw f2 can't be used for anything. The entire point of 2d3 is that it was one of the only ways to setup a guess between b22 xx TS1 combo and f2 xx TS1 combo. It wasn't much, since f2 is still a ridicilously shit overhead, but it was the best her mixup she could offer.

If she was intended to be balanced by crumbling down once opp gets in, then her zoning would not be beaten this easily by a sizable chunk of the cast. She has a lot of matchups in which she has to rushdown. You probably confused her with Sinestro.
 
Some Dude

Some Dude

Noob
You're not telling me anything I don't already know, and I'm not talking about raw F2.

Sinestro isn't a midrange character either.
 
Ronald_A_Knox

Ronald_A_Knox

Clipeum Aurea
Her total overhead options that lead into combos are this:

f2 - no range, 28 frames

f3 - epic range, but 39 frames

f1, 3 - 3 is the overhead, f1 whiffs on crouchers

As they are, all of these are easily reaction blocked. 2d3 used to somewhat help with that. What can be done to them now?

Crossups don't count unless you are willing to lose to everyone with AAs.
 
KamkaziChicila

KamkaziChicila

Harley & Zatana is all I need.
Ok like Flava and Webs said we can't let this divide us. You complain and whine all day about it, but at the end of the day, she lost her "amazing string". All you have to do now is go for broke with unsafe overheads and hope for the best. I know you guys are talented with Harley, so go in the lab and find something else useful to use.
 
Some Dude

Some Dude

Noob
Ronald_A_Knox said:
All i'm saying is that she is NOT the best zoner in the game, and she needs an overhead to survive many of her matchups.
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I agree that the 2D3 nerf is BS. The whole "Maybe NRS didn't intend for her to have good rushdown" stuff is just me trying to figure out the point behind the nerf, because surely they didn't wake up one morning and say "Hey you know, Harley should suck." I straight up said that she doesn't seem good enough in other areas that the 2D3 nerf is justified so I don't know why you're trying to argue with me on stuff we apparently agree with.

Maybe her midrange bait-and-punish game hasn't been fully unlocked yet or maybe she had some super-broken tech with 2D3 that just hadn't been figured out yet. Or maybe NRS just doesn't want Harley to be good. Iuno. I'm just trying to figure out the logic behind nerfing it.
 
Ronald_A_Knox

Ronald_A_Knox

Clipeum Aurea
Some Dude said:
I agree that the 2D3 nerf is BS. The whole "Maybe NRS didn't intend for her to have good rushdown" stuff is just me trying to figure out the point behind the nerf, because surely they didn't wake up one morning and say "Hey you know, Harley should suck." I straight up said that she doesn't seem good enough in other areas that the 2D3 nerf is justified so I don't know why you're trying to argue with me on stuff we apparently agree with.
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The whole "f23 can be used for same" kind of made me assume you meant raw f2. I apologize for misunderstandings.

KamkaziChicila said:
Ok like Flava and Webs said we can't let this divide us. You complain and whine all day about it, but at the end of the day, she lost her "amazing string". All you have to do now is go for broke with unsafe overheads and hope for the best. I know you guys are talented with Harley, so go in the lab and find something else useful to use.
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They aren't unsafe. f2 is +3, f3 is +1, f1, 3 is 0. It isn't the matter of that. The matter is that they take so long(28, 39, second hit after a high) any opponent with a brain in their head can easily block it all on reaction. I hope you knew that.

Some way to include them into a mixup with lows is requied. 2d3 was that way before. Now some other one must be found. If you have one, show. And i won't believe even for a second that you were "fine" without one.
 
Ronald_A_Knox

Ronald_A_Knox

Clipeum Aurea
While some people were busy whining how their "just throw raw f2(not you, Some Dude) and jump in on Aquaman" is not accepted as legitimate tech, i found some shenanigans f3 can actually offer. While i polish them, i wanna ask, do i just post them here or would a separate thread work better?
 
nightE89

nightE89

Cupcakes!!!
Well I'll still keep playing her as my main, but I cant really say i used her 2+D3 that much. Kinda wish I did before this nerf. I just wish they would buff her trait imo than nerf. I didn't think at all she needed nerfs
 
E

Eshi

Noob
oh my god. I just found out about the 2D3 nerfs. oh my god. OH MY GOD. I have no words.

Well, other than asking how badly it was nerfed because I can't look at the frame data... but wow, they nerfed Harley's best rushdown tool when she's a mid tier character.
 
Ronald_A_Knox

Ronald_A_Knox

Clipeum Aurea
Eshi said:
oh my god. I just found out about the 2D3 nerfs. oh my god. OH MY GOD. I have no words.

Well, other than asking how badly it was nerfed because I can't look at the frame data... but wow, they nerfed Harley's best rushdown tool when she's a mid tier character.
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I asked Xbox players who already have the patch, it's zero frames on block, which means it's dead. Look at my thread though, i think i found a way.
 
E

Eshi

Noob
Ronald_A_Knox said:
I asked Xbox players who already have the patch, it's zero frames on block, which means it's dead. Look at my thread though, i think i found a way.
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i appreciate that you're staying positive. And I'm sure Harley will still be a viable character. But my enthusiasm for this game has been extinguished. 2D3 was literally my favorite part of playing Harley because I love frame trap mindgames, and it was still COMPLETELY counterable with back dash/wake-up attack/armor. I am sad.
 
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