Aw, C'mon Puddin' -- Harley Quinn General Discussion Thread

[Katt]

Greven: Two things.

1. Are you a norwegian?

2. We already know ingame movelist lies about the damage and that the wiki probably is wrong for copying it, but if you've read my post I believe it's 17% from last time i tried counting. Are you sure it's 18? I want it to be 18 but I'm not sure.

 

[ShinSenkai]

I'm confident it's 8%

 

[Greven]

Greven: Two things.

1. Are you a norwegian?

2. We already know ingame movelist lies about the damage and that the wiki probably is wrong for copying it, but if you've read my post I believe it's 17% from last time i tried counting. Are you sure it's 18? I want it to be 18 but I'm not sure.

1. No i am not (picked the name from mtg)
2. I confirmed it by doing 5x EX PD (18%) + 1x PD (10%) for a total of 100%

 

[Katt]

Nice confirm.

I'm happy to see that.

 

[marc]

I don't know if this is important, but I noticed something while in training mode practicing TS~1, f1.3, f1.3, 112, 1, 12,pd

Now, at the point you do 112 instead of following up, you can TS at a specific timing and your TS misses, but both characters are laying on the ground on top of each other. Then you go into the 1 version of ts after, causing a reset and right back into the combo.

While I know all they have to do is block, I just found it interesting. I assume you could also do the 2 version of TS for a knockdown into a 50/50.

I'd like to know if anyone else thinks this might be useful.

Also, I do not know if it is stage specific, I'm writing this as just as I found it. And I'm doing it on the watchtower, top floor.

I really wish I could provide a video to specifically show you what I'm writing about, but sadly I do not have the equipment.

 

[ShinSenkai]

I wouldn't really consider it a 50/50 seeing as blocking low (which is what you should primarily be doing vs Harley) beats both options. Some wake up attacks will blow that up too. It might be useful to catch them pressing buttons on their wake up or catch them trying to jump maybe but I wouldn't rely on this. I'd prefer the PD oki.

 

[The Slaj Jazz]

What do you guys use for pokes? The only thing I could think of is just her reg. guns. Anything else tho?

 

[Katt]

From watching some streams; it seems like, against the wall, Harley can do combo combo insert combo into 112 1 f2 (WILL MISS ON PURRRRRRPOSE but inch Harley forth) then you can either do ji2 (crosses up, full combo, get them back against the wall with 123) or nj2 (does not cross over).

I might be somewhat mistaken, I haven't tried it myself, but it seems like a somewhat viable setup that might be better than 112xxSS.

 

[ShinSenkai]

Against the wall following a 112 Harley has a few options. She can can 112~TS Roll forward and neutral jump 2 for an ambiguous cross up. Delay the roll to stay in front. 112, SS, F2 a really weird cross over that again, when delayed will leave you in front. These are actually two powerful tools that make her corner game so beastly as they're fairly hard to react to.

 

[Fergus]

Ok so I've been exploring what gives her a hard knockdown and what does, and checking what oki she could get off it.

Moves that causes hard knockdown
112
2d3 (techable in a juggle though)
33

I'm trying to find something with 33 and it pushes them too far back to get any form of legit 50/50 going with j2/j3/j1

I'll try exploring more options later, I was trying it off b2,2 TS1 b3 j2 33 then j2 for crossup f3 in front but nothing.

Tried b2,2 TS1 b3 dash 33 (really hard to do), same results.

This is all midscreen, this char must have something, I'm determined to make her work .

 

[Mood4food77]

if TS~1 was an overhead, her biggest issue would be fixed

 

[xWEBSx]

Ok so I've been exploring what gives her a hard knockdown and what does, and checking what oki she could get off it.

Moves that causes hard knockdown
112
2d3 (techable in a juggle though)
33

I'm trying to find something with 33 and it pushes them too far back to get any form of legit 50/50 going with j2/j3/j1

I'll try exploring more options later, I was trying it off b2,2 TS1 b3 j2 33 then j2 for crossup f3 in front but nothing.

Tried b2,2 TS1 b3 dash 33 (really hard to do), same results.

This is all midscreen, this char must have something, I'm determined to make her work .

Nice work..
Off of a successful 3,3
This is F3 range- which is quick to recover and positive frames on block if F3 hits you get a ground bounce + combo..(also don't sleep on the ability to cancel out of F3 to keep up pressure) if too predictable or good/lucky read.. on block could lead to the following guessing game:
NJ1/2/3 + follow up
Or
TS + follow up

3,3 from the ground same ground game as 2,U3
SS into TS
SS into F2 + follow up

3,3 can be canceled into special move after 2nd kick (first from crouch) Comes out...Good for TS cancel into TS2 which leads into a close quarters hard knockdown.

1,2,3,3,3 lands with proper timing giving your 1,2,3 a hard knockdown option.

On a new thought.. There is a mechanic in game that I notice really NO ONE using and I think is a major key to opening up the future meta game in this game.. And possibly a great under utilized mechanic and that is (not sure of the official name - since no one uses it) but is basically the combo cancel (last two options under special moves list in move menu) since Harley usually ha surplus meter to burn.. And a majority of time sits on a full meter- this may be a viable option to her simple hold down to stuff her options.. If the keep blocking you low, but the 2 bars of meter in middle of block string to get that F3 ground bounce... If the mechanic works like I think it works.

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

If the jeep blocking you low, but the 2 bars of meter in middle of block string to get that F3 ground bounce... If the mechanic works like I think it works.

There is a problem. F3 bounce cancel whiffs up close just as normal F3. It needs something with sufficent range to be cancelled out of.

 

[xWEBSx]

There is a problem. F3 bounce cancel whiffs up close just as normal F3. It needs something with sufficent range to be cancelled out of.

So if they are blocking you low, the block string burn is sending you over their head.... *sigh*..... Something's gotta give man.. Fuck..

Edit: after further thought.. Many gripe that many of Harley's combos leave the opponent "too far away" to continue combo/pressure... So instead of following up with the full combo, End it with a bounce cancel B/F3(spacing dependent) to get more out of your otherwise dead due to spacing combos?

 

[x MAD AXES x]

What do you guy feel if they changed 2 into an overhead, it's i15 2% but can be higher in juggles with 2,b+3 TS~1 b+3 j+2 j+2 1,2 PD 33% if I recall correctly.

also after 3,3 if you go into tantrum the forward roll you're at the opponent even if they back roll.
e.g b+2,2 TS~1 b+3 j+2 3,3 TS forward roll

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

Edit: after further thought.. Many gripe that many of Harley's combos leave the opponent "too far away" to continue combo/pressure... So instead of following up with the full combo, End it with a bounce cancel B/F3(spacing dependent) to get more out of your otherwise dead due to spacing combos?

I have no problem with resets because i use an f1, 3 ender.

 

[xWEBSx]

I have no problem with resets because i use an f1, 3 ender.

Does that make sense though? I'm trying to work it all out here...

Take the combo-

JI2,2,U2, B3,JI2,1,1,2 (F1,3)
With that meter burn cancel property
Is it feasible to go:

JI2,2,U2,B3,JI2,1,1 MB cancel B3, JI2,F1,3 ???

Or does gravity/juggle property not allow them to float that much after the MB cancel.

And.. Am I completely off on how that mechanic works?

 

[Fergus]

What do you guy feel if they changed 2 into an overhead, it's i15 2% but can be higher in juggles with 2,b+3 TS~1 b+3 j+2 j+2 1,2 PD 33% if I recall correctly.

also after 3,3 if you go into tantrum the forward roll you're at the opponent even if they back roll.
e.g b+2,2 TS~1 b+3 j+2 3,3 TS forward roll

I dunno, I think that's a bit too much, maybe make the 2 slightly slower to compensate, have to keep Harley's damage in consideration.

The more I try to like and enjoy this character, the more I can't see her being competitive lol, last casuals, I was beating people with my Green Lantern and Sinestro (I've only played those 2 for like a day or two and people do know these matchups so wasn't unfamiliarity) and I was doing way better than Harley who've I spent a month on now, people here know the matchup too well at this stage and I find it really hard to open up people with her, they're also staying in ranges where they can dash under cupcake on reaction to punish or they just outright zone her and low block her all day upclose, especially with a lot of her stuff being highs or < 0 on block and having to commit to d1 frame traps which is unsafe.

She's a lot of fun, but I think we need to be realistic, until a proper 50/50 is found (that f1,3 one is a bit bleh tbh, requires hitting f1,3 and nj2 is unsafe but props for finding it nonetheless), she's gonna remain one of worst chars in game for me, a lot of characters can do what she can so much better imo.

I know this is a bit whiny and all but I think it's true lol.

 

[SaltFace NS]

I have to disagree with Harley not being viable in tournament play...I placed Top 8 (7th to be exact) in the ATL Injustice tournament which had some of the strongest players you'll see at this game atm...while alot of my matches were uphill battles not once did I feel that it was impossible to win...I even pulled off the impossible on stream by defeating Doomsday with Harley...I've read in these forums how many consider it her worst matchup...Now I truly feel Harley only isn't viable if the player doesn't know what he's doing against his opponent (I lost to Hawkgirl & Ares due to lack of matchup experience & they were good players) besides that Harley is a very solid character with no real flaws when the player is on point...idk if anyone agrees but thats how I feel on Harley as a character.

 

[The PantyChrist]

i just picked up Harley like a week ago cus i wanted those silver diamonds for my player card and it turns out i like her a lot! i beat a doomsday as harley online the other week, ha the final hit was a trait bomb to stuff his mb sky drop attack. also for those looking for mixups if memory serves i think f2 is overhead. its a little slower than some of her other attacks but if you guys have the problem of opponents always blocking low they probably wont expect it f2 tantrum 1 b3 and combo away!

 

[marc]

Ronald, could you elaborate on using the f1,3 ender and how it helps with the mixup game?

 

[SaltFace NS]

I think he's saying with tge F1 3 that u whiff the F1 as the opponent is getting up so that way the 3 hits em free if they block low...am i right on that?

 

[marc]

also, what do you guys think about the corner combo, ts~1, nj2, f1,3, 112, d2, gun shot, 1, 12, pd

a variation is doing gun shot 11 and do ss into nj2 creating strange properties with which side you land on.. has something to do with characters wakeup animation or maybe its just character specific. I'm not completely sure...


Edit:

After further tinkering, I actually think its the SS itself that creates the crossup. try doing d2 to a character in the corner, as they fall do ss (late enough so you don't actually cross them up with the SS and land on the other side, it's hard to describe. notice how harley will be on top of the other character. from this point you can choose b2,2 or f2, or nj2 i'd imagine. each with a different outcome, if you jump you're pushed to other side as they stand. It's really weird/neat​

Shamelessly stolen from Shogun, watch

 

[xWEBSx]

I have to disagree with Harley not being viable in tournament play...I placed Top 8 (7th to be exact) in the ATL Injustice tournament which had some of the strongest players you'll see at this game atm...while alot of my matches were uphill battles not once did I feel that it was impossible to win...I even pulled off the impossible on stream by defeating Doomsday with Harley...I've read in these forums how many consider it her worst matchup...Now I truly feel Harley only isn't viable if the player doesn't know what he's doing against his opponent (I lost to Hawkgirl & Ares due to lack of matchup experience & they were good players) besides that Harley is a very solid character with no real flaws when the player is on point...idk if anyone agrees but thats how I feel on Harley as a character.

I agree.. To a point. Like I have said in other posts.. She is a balanced character... But not very strong. She is mid tier- possibly good tier if she had some changes. But do not think she could ever be top (and I am fine with that). As it stands- she has more uphill battles than easy wins.. So she truly relies on the player to make her good.

 

[nightE89]

Which I agree. I enjoy winning my matches with harley than any other character in this game cause I know it not an easy mode character that I have to earn it lol