Question ask stryker thread

[Vulcan Hades]

Even if it is, Im not sure what to do with it. Aren't both players at neutral after a roll toss?

Yeah, Stryker loses his zoning advantage after a Roll Toss which is why I was always so reluctant to end combos with it against teleporters, zoners or counter-zoners. Because I like having advantage and I don't like being punished for taking my gun out.

But the fact that Roll Toss is an untechable knockdown has numerous advantages that I'm just recently starting to see.

1. It's great for counter setups. For example: to bait Johnny Cage's EN shadow Kick. If JC could roll out into Shadow Kick, then that could seriously mess with our NJP timing/spacing. But the fact he can't means it's a perfect counter opportunity.

2. Experienced players probably know that Stryker's Gun is not safe after a Roll so they might take advantage of it to try and get a quick projectile trade to gain zoning advantage back. But players who like to throw projectiles after Roll become vulnerable to: dash xx Roll Toss. Silly shit but it can work.

3. I know this may sound weird, but getting an untechable Roll might actually be good for offensive purposes too. I'll try to explain this in more details later.

 

[PoliceBrutality]

im tempted to revisit the old Styker buff thread (can't remember the proper name). What do you guys think? First thing that comes to mind is the ability to do grenades on reaction. Would that be overpowered? I think it's fair instead of just throwing them randomly and hope the opponent will jump into them

so yeah
- Lower hurtbox on standing 4 to make it the viable AA it was meant to be
- Reduce start up frame on grenades (similar to Dhalsim RH)

 

[Carefoot]

Yeah, Stryker loses his zoning advantage after a Roll Toss which is why I was always so reluctant to end combos with it against teleporters, zoners or counter-zoners. Because I like having advantage and I don't like being punished for taking my gun out.

But the fact that Roll Toss is an untechable knockdown has numerous advantages that I'm just recently starting to see.

1. It's great for counter setups. For example: to bait Johnny Cage's EN shadow Kick. If JC could roll out into Shadow Kick, then that could seriously mess with our NJP timing/spacing. But the fact he can't means it's a perfect counter opportunity.

2. Experienced players probably know that Stryker's Gun is not safe after a Roll so they might take advantage of it to try and get a quick projectile trade to gain zoning advantage back. But players who like to throw projectiles after Roll become vulnerable to: dash xx Roll Toss. Silly shit but it can work.

3. I know this may sound weird, but getting an untechable Roll might actually be good for offensive purposes too. I'll try to explain this in more details later.

Well they don't get a safe wake up oki.

So we get a full screen mixup opportunity, we can just change stance to bait shit out or commit to a gun cancel at the very end of toss with the purpose of baiting. The mix up then would be to do an ex-gun instead of just canceling (because after an untechable knockdown ex-guns beats moves because it will chip down the regular super armor frames of a move like dc ex shadow kick).

Stance change is under utilized baiting tool at full screen

 

[Vulcan Hades]

So we get a full screen mixup opportunity, we can just change stance to bait shit out or commit to a gun cancel at the very end of toss with the purpose of baiting.

No actually we can't. We don't have enough frame advantage after Roll Toss to do that.

What we can do after a Roll is JK combo over projectiles (but not take our gun out).

Stance change is under utilized baiting tool at full screen

It has nothing to do with where you are on the screen. It has to do with frame advantage. You could be full screen and be in negative/neutral frames just like you could be very close to them and be at +20.

Otherwise, I agree that Gun xx Stance xx Block and Gun xx D1/D3 are not used enough and they are the key to overcoming Stryker's bad matchups.

 

[Carefoot]

No actually we can't. We don't have enough frame advantage after Roll Toss to do that.

What we can do after a Roll is JK combo over projectiles (but not take our gun out).


It has nothing to do with where you are on the screen. It has to do with frame advantage. You could be full screen and be in negative/neutral frames just like you could be very close to them and be at +20.

Otherwise, I agree that Gun xx Stance xx Block and Gun xx D1/D3 are not used enough and they are the key to overcoming Stryker's bad matchups.

Okay I just tested it your right.... I thought you mentioned rolltoss was untechable?

in training it is hmm.. okay and 114 isnt just to clarify

nor is his throw I don't know where that rumor started -_-

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Yeah it's untechable meaning they can't "tech roll" (they can't roll back). But that doesn't mean they can't do a wake up attack or that Stryker is at +frames and has zoning advantage.

I'm working on new videos that might help illustrate the importance of frame advantage more clearly.. I feel it's still a very ambiguous concept for a lot of people but it's really more simple than most people think.

 

[Cser]

Sup Stryker forum. I'm very new to this character so I'm asking here first but has this combo been used before? Very situational corner reversal combo:

(back against the wall) B+122, dash, uppercut (opponent flips to corner), D+1 gunshot, 4 34%
(back against the wall) B+122, dash, uppercut (opponent flips to corner), D+1 EX gunshot, 3 34%

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Sup Stryker forum. I'm very new to this character so I'm asking here first but has this combo been used before? Very situational corner reversal combo:

(back against the wall) B+122, dash, uppercut (opponent flips to corner), D+1 gunshot, 4 34%
(back against the wall) B+122, dash, uppercut (opponent flips to corner), D+1 EX gunshot, 3 34%

I like it lol. I'll give that combo a try for sure, looks flashy.

At first I was like: "but what's the point if ending the combo with roll toss will still throw them in the corner and deal more damage?" but then I thought it could have its advantages considering Stryker will be much closer to them. It might give you a chance to bait and punish a wake up attack or dash throw/mixup after the standing 3 reset.

Thanks for sharing and welcome to the forums.

 

[Cser]

Yea it may not be super practical but it looks neat

 

[Marcus Vinicius]

Cool... like that one.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

The spacing and timing is pretty strict. I was only able to do it twice.

I was hoping it would be a reliable way to reverse reset them in the corner.. oh well.

 

[Cser]

Yea it's not very good. Hard to come across new useful things these days lol.

 

[PoliceBrutality]

hey guys what is your approach on breaking ppl who crouch block and low poke a lot (combo wise) without having to jump in? I think that's my main issue with Styker. The only poke I can rely on that hits crouching opp is 2..2,3 xx Gun cancel/EN gunshot, or B3 shenanigans but they are way too slow. I was playing TraNceBeatz and Mikemetroid Cage and I can say these guys have a STRONG crouching game. It felt impossible to break their crouch defense with going to a jumping punch /kick attempt. And when I go for the jump ins, it is a risk because I eat uppercuts or AAs. Im currently working on my game to not jump AT ALL unless necessary. But I find it hard to do so because all of stryker's good launchers hit all high.

I honestly think that my dream of fighting up close as stryker (combo wise) is a dead end. Dont get me wrong this all up close idea has improved my footsies and outpoking my opponent a lot (standing 4, D3, D4, D1), but I would love to read your take on the whole "fighting up close without jumping approach".

 

[Rampage254]

hey guys what is your approach on breaking ppl who crouch block and low poke a lot (combo wise) without having to jump in? I think that's my main issue with Styker. The only poke I can rely on that hits crouching opp is 2..2,3 xx Gun cancel/EN gunshot, or B3 shenanigans but they are way too slow. I was playing TraNceBeatz and Mikemetroid Cage and I can say these guys have a STRONG crouching game. It felt impossible to break their crouch defense with going to a jumping punch /kick attempt. And when I go for the jump ins, it is a risk because I eat uppercuts or AAs. Im currently working on my game to not jump AT ALL unless necessary. But I find it hard to do so because all of stryker's good launchers hit all high.

I honestly think that my dream of fighting up close as stryker (combo wise) is a dead end. Dont get me wrong this all up close idea has improved my footsies and outpoking my opponent a lot (standing 4, D3, D4, D1), but I would love to read your take on the whole "fighting up close without jumping approach".

Have you tried doing the b3, baton sweep mix up? Since the b3 has decent range, it could work. That's usually what I do against people who crouch block a lot.

 

[PoliceBrutality]

Have you tried doing the b3, baton sweep mix up? Since the b3 has decent range, it could work. That's usually what I do against people who crouch block a lot.

well we all know that's your signature move but no. I usually go for B3, throw. That's the thing though, players who are really good at crouch poking can see this come a mile away. That was one of the reason why I was hoping for NRS to speed up B3. If you fight chars that has ridiculous D4 (sonya, mileena, baraka), there is no way you will ever land a B3

 

[Rampage254]

well we all know that's your signature move but no. I usually go for B3, throw. That's the thing though, players who are really good at crouch poking can see this come a mile away. That was one of the reason why I was hoping for NRS to speed up B3. If you fight chars that has ridiculous D4 (sonya, mileena, baraka), there is no way you will ever land a B3

What if you try to bait out the low poke? Like do the B3, then just wait for them to whiff the low poke and the do the b3 again into a combo or mix up. I never tried that, so idk if that would actually work.

 

[PoliceBrutality]

What if you try to bait out the low poke? Like do the B3, then just wait for them to whiff the low poke and the do the b3 again into a combo or mix up. I never tried that, so idk if that would actually work.

Well it still wouldnt work because B3 is too slow. They would have time to block it I guess I just have to live with it. like I said this whole approach is a dead end. I just wanted to run it by you guys before I write it off. Stryker doesnt have any Cage F3 like starter. Im thinking make do Standing 3 Gun cancel to beat whiff low poke but that's also slow...but probably still better than B3

 

[Vulcan Hades]

You were trying to rushdown Johnny Cage? WHY?

You need to play differently vs different types of characters you can't just "zone them all" or "play aggressive in their face" vs all characters. Rushing down Sonya and JC is suicide lol.

Also you need to realize that Stryker's offensive tools are really pathetic. So if you like going in and mashing buttons Stryker is not the right character for you. Stryker can have success in offense but you really need to understand what good pressure really is. Pressure isn't just non-stop attacking and non-stop mixups. It's also about appearing vulnerable and making the opponent want to commit/make a mistake then punishing that mistake. It's about representing X but going for Y. You don't need godlike low/overheads to do that. You just need a good D1/D3/D4 and you need to know when to walk away, when to jump, when to block, when to use EX moves and when to throw.

If they crouch block a lot the answer is easy: Just throw them a lot until they realize they need to stop blocking low.

You can also move back and abuse gun cancels to build meter until they get up and feel like moving forward. But remember that you're not using Gun Shot to keep them out. You're using Gun to condition them and to build meter.

If they like to D3 a lot, abuse standing 3. If they D4 a lot, either block and counter poke if you're close enough, try a cross-over jump punch/kick, or simply walk/backdash/jump way and try to anticipate their next move. You need to punish pokes before they happen or as they're happening.

 

[PoliceBrutality]

Vulcan Hades well call me KRAZY but im just experimenting with styrker's offense. Of course I dont want Cage and Sonya in lol, I think I'm just jealous of Cage F3 and Ermac's 31,312, or sonya's carthweel pressure. Like I said earlier, I made peace with it and called it a dead end. I just wanted to run it by you guys to see if you have the same issue. Also I knew I didnt explain it properly lol, but im referring to Stryker's offensive game at full sweep distance or a little further back. At this range I just draw a blank when it comes to be offensive without jumping in. Dont get me wrong, this is the ideal spot for stryker to eat anyone alive with pokes but offense wise, there is nothing really I can do. I just wish he had a way to start a combo after a D4...you know like shang be doing D3 and get in or sub D4 then goes for the 22 or 12 (cant really remember the exact string). The only potential string we have after a D4 (out of D1 counter poke range) is 2 or 2,3. The reach on 2 is ridiculous but as we all know it's also ridiculously slow and the same goes for B3 shenanigans. Everything else just whiff (11, B2, 12, B1)... seriously, the lack of mid is hurting stryker bad. Anyway, I dont think there is anything there to explore. The full sweep range is stryker's playing field to out poke the opponent, not to start a combo without jumping punch. I tried B3,2 but it often gets interrupted by low pokes. You do it farther back and the opp will have time to go make a sandwich and come back to jump over it. oh and when I said crouching opp I wasnt talking about when I get in on them. of course I can throw them when they crouch block... but at jumping or full sweep distance only roll toss or baton sweep can do something. I just feel like everything else is just pointless. Once an opponent is in that range, our only option is to switch gears and put on the counter poke jacket on

 

[LEGEND]

Vulcan Hades I just wish he had a way to start a combo after a D4...you know like shang be doing D3 and get in or sub D4 then goes for the 22 or 12 (cant really remember the exact string). The only potential string we have after a D4 (out of D1 counter poke range) is 2 or 2,3. The reach on 2 is ridiculous but as we all know it's also ridiculously slow and the same goes for B3 shenanigans. Everything else just whiff (11, B2, 12, B1)... seriously, the lack of mid is hurting stryker bad.

standing 4 and 3 hit mid and give 2% chip on block and a 12th of a meter bar, that not bad when you string them together and end with mix-ups. Like this:
Dash in with D3 (optional followup with D4-G/C or just D4) then 4 G/C, Backwards cancel the gun into 3 G/C to defeat pokes then you can go with a D1 or D3 linked with a special or grapple them (or rinse and repeat). If they poke out then start trying more counter poke options and once they get a string going on you just EX roll toss out (which is almost free after your pressure game)

 

[PoliceBrutality]

standing 4 and 3 hit mid and give 2% chip on block and a 12th of a meter bar, that not bad when you string them together and end with mix-ups. Like this:
Dash in with D3 (optional followup with D4-G/C or just D4) then 4 G/C, Backwards cancel the gun into 3 G/C to defeat pokes then you can go with a D1 or D3 linked with a special or grapple them (or rinse and repeat). If they poke out then start trying more counter poke options and once they get a string going on you just EX roll toss out (which is almost free after your pressure game)

Well now you are talking about pokes and counter pokes. I know these things and have done them (well at least most of them lol). I rest my case lol, no point in trying to cook something up when he lacks the tools to do so.

 

[LEGEND]

Well now you are talking about pokes and counter pokes. I know these things and have done them (well at least most of them lol). I rest my case lol, no point in trying to cook something up when he lacks the tools to do so.

those things are his pressure, string them together and open your opponent up

9% here and 12% there really adds up, you can't just mindlessly walk up to someone and press B122

 

[Skkra]

I’ve been working on Stryker lately as a possible new main, defecting from Ermac. Obviously, Stryker doesn’t have Ermac’s big easy damage, but the gun shots here and blocked grenades there really add up nicely.

The biggest problem I’m having is ground punishment. With Ermac, I can 1,2~lift for easy damage. How do I punish with Stryker? 4~roll? I’m at a loss as to how to get decent damage with a grounded punishment.

Thanks!

 

[Espio]

I’ve been working on Stryker lately as a possible new main, defecting from Ermac. Obviously, Stryker doesn’t have Ermac’s big easy damage, but the gun shots here and blocked grenades there really add up nicely.

The biggest problem I’m having is ground punishment. With Ermac, I can 1,2~lift for easy damage. How do I punish with Stryker? 4~roll? I’m at a loss as to how to get decent damage with a grounded punishment.

Thanks!

Are you talking about if you block something like Kabal's nomad dash or are you talking about if you block something like Raiden's superman?

If it's the first type of move, do back 1,2,2, gun shot, 1,2 roll toss. It's a 32% punish, standard stuff, but it's one of his fastest and most reliable bnb's for full combo punishes.

If the opponent is in a floating air animation like Raiden after a blocked superman, do 1,2 gun shot, 1,2, roll toss for 30% damage, hopefully that helps.

 

[Skkra]

Thanks, that's perfect.