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Question Are Smoke's resets wrongly skewing the community's perception of his viability?

TSIA


  • Total voters
    38

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
This.
I remember when people thought Cyrax was also out of the top 10.
In any fighting game, if someone can kill you by touching you once, their should be NO debate, no matter how hard or easy it is to do.
That's not true. It being hard to land and hard to execute do factor in. Look at MvC2 and UMK3. Both games had characters with infinites or high damaging combos. And they were hard to land in both games. In fact, in UMK3, Shang Tsung has an infinite and he's arguably the worst character in the game.
 

IKizzLE

BloodHound
That's not true. It being hard to land and hard to execute do factor in. Look at MvC2 and UMK3. Both games had characters with infinites or high damaging combos. And they were hard to land in both games. In fact, in UMK3, Shang Tsung has an infinite and he's arguably the worst character in the game.
To a certain extent...yes.
But in the context of this game, it is easy.
 

Pho Cubic

Sérieusement Sabrewulf peut aller en enfer.
A disciplined Scorpion will evaluate what vortex setup he used and how it will condition the opponent in what they decide to do next. Making a braindead guess and just throwing out B2 or F4~Spear point blank on each one is just asking to die.

Also, I haven't once called Smoke overrated or underrated here, my theory is to get an idea of what everybody's consensus of the character would be without the resets. For worse, or *gasp* better. On paper, it's a downplaying context, but then I openly acknowledge that every single character I play loses to him regardless.
I wasn't implying that you thought Smoke was overrated...it was more towards the community as a whole. Still, I somewhat misunderstood the point of your thread. My apologies.

Without resets, I would say Smoke is 9 - 10 on the tier list.
With resets, I would say he's 5 - 6.

Also, with regard to Scorpion, correct me if I'm wrong but if your opponent was also a disciplined player wouldn't they understand you were trying to condition them to change their response, and keep blocking the same way. It's like with Smoke if you keep doing d3/d4 and the opponent never opens themselves up to b2. Either way, my point was that the b2/f4 spear mix-up is much riskier than Smoke's reset. Smoke's reset isn't a gamble at all...it's just practice.
 
IDK FrothyOmen, I just learned how to do Smoke's reset today, and I'm landing it fairly consistently.
Now do it in tournament outside of the comfort of your own home and in a situation where you have to react to screen position. I don't recommend practicing them on the training stage because it's the perfect length for smoke to hit his corner "sweet spot" on resets that makes them broken easy... that spacing doesn't happen all that often in real games
 

Brownie

Stay Wet <3
Does Smoke have a safe armored 50/50 situation?
Cyrax does not have armor on Ex Ragdoll. The only armor Cyrax has is EX Anti Air Throw.

Does Cyrax has a 100% combo launching unparryable projectile that can be linked to any normal or string that can't be punished by anyone without an 8frame attack?

Does Cyrax have a safe overhead launcher giving him the freedom to low poke you to death until you're forced to eat it?

Can Cyrax run away alll day with a backwards teleport?

Mid tier at best? EL. OH. EL.
You can punish smoke bomb with any 9 frame move. Krayzie does it consistently with Cyrax's standing 1.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Now do it in tournament outside of the comfort of your own home and in a situation where you have to react to screen position. I don't recommend practicing them on the training stage because it's the perfect length for smoke to hit his corner "sweet spot" on resets that makes them broken easy... that spacing doesn't happen all that often in real games
I don't understand. Sure screen position plays a factor, but when it doesn't, how is it different on other stages? I'm doing them mid screen, and when my back is to the corner. If I have them near the corner I don't necessarily need a reset since I have the positional advantage.
 

SZSR

Champion
I don't understand. Sure screen position plays a factor, but when it doesn't, how is it different on other stages? I'm doing them mid screen, and when my back is to the corner. If I have them near the corner I don't necessarily need a reset since I have the positional advantage.
Your opponents height and the length of the stage is very important in landing the reset midscreen. If you are able to juggle your opponent to the point where only one hit of the f4 connects then 99% of the time you will miss the reset. If you hit it so that the f4 connects both kicks and the opponent moves the screen, then EX bomb will connect and reset.
 

xSMoKEx

Coward Character User
I don't understand. Sure screen position plays a factor, but when it doesn't, how is it different on other stages? I'm doing them mid screen, and when my back is to the corner. If I have them near the corner I don't necessarily need a reset since I have the positional advantage.
Reset timing is dependant on screen position and gravity scaling (number of air hits in a combo dictacting how fast they drop). Training stage, assuming you starter where it spawns you, has it in the easiest possible scenario to land the reset. Perfect spacing to hit it. That's what FrothyOmen meant.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Reset timing is dependant on screen position and gravity scaling (number of air hits in a combo dictacting how fast they drop). Training stage, assuming you starter where it spawns you, has it in the easiest possible scenario to land the reset. Perfect spacing to hit it. That's what FrothyOmen meant.
Your opponents height and the length of the stage is very important in landing the reset midscreen. If you are able to juggle your opponent to the point where only one hit of the f4 connects then 99% of the time you will miss the reset. If you hit it so that the f4 connects both kicks and the opponent moves the screen, then EX bomb will connect and reset.

I see, that's weird. LOL mk9.
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
Cyrax does not have armor on Ex Ragdoll. The only armor Cyrax has is EX Anti Air Throw.


You can punish smoke bomb with any 9 frame move. Krayzie does it consistently with Cyrax's standing 1.
Yes I know. But i can't think of a lot of characters with 9 frame moves that start combos. Most jabs at 10 or more. 8 is a habit of mine because of my spirit charge. So he has handful of characters that can, and the rest of the cast he gets away with murder. I do not feel better.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
This thread is further proof that there is no such thing as an infallible Top 10 in MK9.

You can pitch numbers, matchups and frames all you want, but it can't be done.
Perhaps a Top 15 with a measure of fluidity and interchangeability.
But a solid, indisputable Top 10? No. Cannot be done.
 

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
Smoke is top 10. Shut your foolish mouths before i 100% combo all over your mothers breasts.
 

cR Xarakamaka

Kombatant
cyrax reset constant, smokes NOT . people who dont play smoke seem to think smoke is gna hit his reset regardless of setup to reset and say he cant hit 100% combos but its not consistant at all, aint no smoke player and never will be that can hit it every time, no way no how :)