Question Are Smoke's resets wrongly skewing the community's perception of his viability?

[STRYKIE]

Smoke players down play their character a lot. For example, Coward Wafflez says Smoke beats Freddy 6:4 when everybody knows Smoke is Freddy's worst match up. I say Smoke wins 7:3. Maybe even 8:2.

I also pray that no company ever includes such garbage character design in a 2D fighting game. I am sure that many members of this community agree that Smoke is worse than the input bug.

So can we confirm that in your opinion, Smoke is BS regardless of resets?

 

[Error]

My life force runs on the tears of Smoke players

PLEASE CONTINUE I REQUIRE NUTRIENTS

Your avatar makes everything you say look rapey

 

[xSMoKEx]

True. Kabal is overpowered and so was Vanilla Kung Lao.

But Smoke is just a terrible character design. I bet you $1000 that NRS designed him to help scrubs get around projectiles.

You're actually right. Smoke is very stupidly designed, i mean who has a 100% hit rate off of a projectile parry? Who has 100% resets and a full-combo projectile? Look at a game like Street Fighter and throw these things mentioned above into the game and the character would be OP as hell. But this is not Street Fighter.

We have safe launching armor into 40% combo's into standing resets into blockstrings that deal chip off of normals and build ridiculous meter and leave you at +1 (Sonya). We have spammable iAGB's that hit grounded opponents and grant full combo into a standing reset into stupid block pressure on an anti air hit (Kabal) We have characters that do nearly 50% meterless (Kitana, etc.), and 70% one bar (Cyrax, Smoke, etc.). We have characters who have tiny hitboxes and dodge most attacks and have ridiculous armor to back it up (Sonya, Jax, Skarlet, etc.), then we have people like Shang who have nothing in terms of defense besides one armored attack. We have full screen zoning frame traps (Freddy) We have a clone that takes up space and locks you into the corner (Sub). We have safe advancing armor that grants severe advantage. (Kenshi) We have A LOT of dumb shit.

Take anyone of those things listed above and they're all extremely stupid in most other fighters, but not in MK9. The game is made up ridiculous things, not to the extent of Marvel, but still not everything is in balance or is 'fair'. Point is, nearly every character has stupid aspects to them that would not fly in most fighters, Smoke being one of the many. We just need to accept that as a community people.

 

[MagicMan357]

Smoke has to be top 5 i swear by it. He is the ultimate character, can someone name me one kind of play style he cant adapt to?

His damage is perfect, is THE counterzoner, can rushdown and turtle at the same time.

WTF is up with this kommunity?

 

[SZSR]

Smoke is strong and he beats or goes even with most of the cast without the reset (and some fights the reset make it more on-sided). Pre-Reset he was always good, I don't see where anyone saw he was bad then. But with the reset, it didn't make any of his bad matchups easier. KL is still 4-6, Sonya is still 4-6, Cage is still 4-6, and Kabal is still 3-7, and unluckily for Smoke they're all popular characters. But what everyone seems to forget is that 4-6 is what everyone thinks is a 4.5-5.5, as in really close just a little advantage. A good amount of time spent learning this MUs (for example with xSmokex playing a lot of online) make them 5-5 for the Smoke player. But do people over-estimate Smoke with his reset? Yeah.

TL;DR: Smoke was already good. Reset makes his good matchups easier, don't really help his bad matchups (if only marginally).

 

[FrothyOmen]

But smoke has the potential to do 100% if he has 3 bars of meter and the opponent has none whatsoever and he is able to hit two resets without dropping the combo and accidentally putting his opponent at +9! -_-

 

[FrothyOmen]

Resets are the only reason smoke beats Cage at the highest possible level. But there are no smokes at that level, so the matchup is still 4-6 cage favor until somebody steps up. I am not convinced that that person is wafflez.

Resets are also the only thing that keep Kung Lao and Kabal in check to an extent, they actually have to be careful with their meter or else they are going to get punished with 70% from Smoke.

 

[SZSR]

Resets are the only reason smoke beats Cage at the highest possible level. But there are no smokes at that level, so the matchup is still 4-6 cage favor until somebody steps up. I am not convinced that that person is wafflez.

Resets are also the only thing that keep Kung Lao and Kabal in check to an extent, they actually have to be careful with their meter or else they are going to get punished with 70% from Smoke.

I kinda agree, but when you're fighting strong rushdown characters and you're locked down by them (KL and Cage esp.) you can't just sit on three bars hoping for the chance that they screw up so you can turn it on them to reset them back. You have to get out, and his EX Shake and EX Smoke Away are his best options from keeping these guys staying on him. Smoke like Cyrax, always is stuck with the decision "Do I use meter to escape or do I keep it and let myself potentially lose the match"? I.e., Smoke's reset may keep them in check, but they have things to keep him in check.

 

[Juggs]

Why are we discussing character design? That's completely irrelevant, c'mon guys.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

Why are we discussing character design? That's completely irrelevant, c'mon guys.

They're discussing character design, and not even mentioning Quan Chi...

 

[MK_Salivial]

Dumb thread.

 

[xSMoKEx]

Why are we discussing character design? That's completely irrelevant, c'mon guys.

To stop the whining / complaining that various people do almost daily. People forget that games have flaws, and in this game many characters have ' OP ' things.

I agree with subzerosmokerai as far as they resets go. It's essentially a gamble to deal extra damage, whereas you could spend slightly more, get guaranteed results and SAVE life. you can't use resets if you're dead

Smoke is great, and yes the resets do wrongfully change some people opinions on the character. Despite this, they DO HELP, nobody is denying this.

 

[Pho Cubic]

If Smoke didn't have shake, great pokes, amazing anti-air, good footsies, good damage, and the ability to lame characters out, you could argue that people are overrating him because of his ridiculous resets. However, this isn't the case. Smoke bomb is really the problem here because it allows him to do these resets all over the screen. Doing 30+% damage off a fast projectile is pretty stupid. Doing 100% damage off a fast projectile is retarded. With Smoke, you can have 2 bars/1% health and hit an opponent with no meter/80% health and win the match. Why are people saying he's overrated? Isn't the point of fighting games to do damage and kill people?

Let me reiterate. Smoke has options all over the screen. Smoke can lame people out. Smoke has amazing anti-air. Smoke has mixups. Smoke has great pokes. Smoke is almost completely resistant to zoning. All this, and Smoke has 100% combos. Only in Mortal Kombat would people be debating if a character like Smoke is top 10. This character is broken. That's why I picked him up lol.

 

[SZSR]

If Smoke didn't have shake, great pokes, amazing anti-air, good footsies, good damage, and the ability to lame characters out, you could argue that people are overrating him because of his ridiculous resets. However, this isn't the case. Smoke bomb is really the problem here because it allows him to do these resets all over the screen. Doing 30+% damage off a fast projectile is pretty stupid. Doing 100% damage off a fast projectile is retarded. With Smoke, you can have 2 bars/1% health and hit an opponent with no meter/80% health and win the match. Why are people saying he's overrated? Isn't the point of fighting games to do damage and kill people?

Let me reiterate. Smoke has options all over the screen. Smoke can lame people out. Smoke has amazing anti-air. Smoke has mixups. Smoke has great pokes. Smoke is almost completely resistant to zoning. All this, and Smoke has 100% combos. Only in Mortal Kombat would people be debating if a character like Smoke is top 10. This character is broken. That's why I picked him up lol.

Smoke's best damage comes from starting with b2, 3 and 3d12. A regular Smoke bomb does lower 30%s at best and only gets above that when he resets the opponent (30% is good damage, i'm not gonna lie, but it's not like Kitana landing an air fan to lead up to 50% or Cyrax putting out a bomb.)

Why do you guys act as if we deny all of Smoke's tools? Smoke has some of the best pokes in the game with d1, d3, and d4. B2 is an amazing starter and so is his 2, 1 smoke bomb. I'm not gonna even list all his good tools because it takes too long. Smoke players know why Smoke is so good, we don't need players who main Kitana, Freddy, and Quan Chi telling us he's good.

Reset makes him better, we know this, but you guys forget it's a gamble. It always has been, that's why KT Smith called it the Smoke "lottery" when it was first found out, if you spend meter banking on ending the match and you don't land it? Well, you better hope your opponent messes up one more time.

xSmokex put it the best, "You can't land resets if you're dead".

 

[GGA Wafflez]

Smoke players down play their character a lot. For example, Coward Wafflez says Smoke beats Freddy 6:4 when everybody knows Smoke is Freddy's worst match up. I say Smoke wins 7:3. Maybe even 8:2.

I also pray that no company ever includes such garbage character design in a 2D fighting game. I am sure that many members of this community agree that Smoke is worse than the input bug.

get










good

 

[gdf]

This character is broken. That's why I picked him up lol.

He hasn't won a tournament on his own steam, so he isn't broken enough.

EDIT: Unless xSmokex won a Canadian tournament.

 

[Pho Cubic]

Smoke's best damage comes from starting with b2, 3 and 3d12. A regular Smoke bomb does lower 30%s at best and only gets above that when he resets the opponent (30% is good damage, i'm not gonna lie, but it's not like Kitana landing an air fan to lead up to 50% or Cyrax putting out a bomb.)

Why do you guys act as if we deny all of Smoke's tools? Smoke has some of the best pokes in the game with d1, d3, and d4. B2 is an amazing starter and so is his 2, 1 smoke bomb. I'm not gonna even list all his good tools because it takes too long. Smoke players know why Smoke is so good, we don't need players who main Kitana, Freddy, and Quan Chi telling us he's good.

Reset makes him better, we know this, but you guys forget it's a gamble. It always has been, that's why KT Smith called it the Smoke "lottery" when it was first found out, if you spend meter banking on ending the match and you don't land it? Well, you better hope your opponent messes up one more time.

xSmokex put it the best, "You can't land resets if you're dead".

I wouldn't really call Smoke's reset a gamble. I land the reset 70% of the time and I suck balls. Top Smoke players are probably in the 90+% range. Now...Scorpion's vortex mixup...that is a gamble because even if you do it a million times, it doesn't improve your chances. The only thing that determines whether you get it or not is if your opponent blocks correctly. I'm an ex-Scorpion player myself and guessing wrong on the Vortex feels like going all in on full house Aces and getting beat by four-of-a-kind 7s. Not only did you mess up, but now you're gonna get raped. That is a gamble.

The odds of the player dropping Smoke's reset can be significantly reduced with practice. Besides this discussion is about whether or not Smoke is overrated. Dropping resets is the player's fault, not the character's.

 

[Juggs]

Does the reset randomly not work sometimes or something? Or does it work all the time if done right, it's just hard? If so, stay free Smoke players, lol.

 

[FrothyOmen]

But scorpion can use b2 from max distance and cancel the low into his safe slide... Honestly if I left them in the 50/50 9 times out of 10 I'd just go with the safe low for a damage extension and oki, and i'd only sometimes throw the b2 and it'd be from max distance so even if it's blocked, GL punishing it. Scorpion enrages me more than anyone else when I fight him, I should probably just pick him up at this point...

 

[FrothyOmen]

Does the reset randomly not work sometimes or something? Or does it work all the time if done right, it's just hard? If so, stay free Smoke players, lol.

Works all the time if done right just hard. You have to adjust your timing of each juggling string and the spacing/timing of f4 constantly. Like, sometimes off of naked sb for example I'll go into 32, and then confirm the height I just launched them to decide whether I want to 3d12 or 32 again. When I make that decision, I have to make yet another decision on whether I want to stand still and f4, or dash and f4, or if I want to use f4 at all if I didn't juggle them high enough. Then as soon as you get near the corner everything gets all fucked up and you have to hit the guy way sooner than you do midscreen. There are a LOT of variables to pay attention to when attempting resets. Screen position is vital. Resetting into the left corner of a lot of stages is basically impossible because corners in this game are buggy. Thankfully roftop day, courtyard day, and the pit all do not have these issues, so buggy corners are a moot point for stage-picking smokes.

 

[M2Dave]

Does the reset randomly not work sometimes or something? Or does it work all the time if done right, it's just hard? If so, stay free Smoke players, lol.

The two best Smoke fools like xSmokex and Wafflez land the reset 90% of the time after any launcher and AA.

 

[Pho Cubic]

Does the reset randomly not work sometimes or something? Or does it work all the time if done right, it's just hard? If so, stay free Smoke players, lol.

I would get owned by 90% of the community and I land the reset 70% of the time. That speaks for itself. It's really not that hard.

 

[IKizzLE]

If Smoke didn't have shake, great pokes, amazing anti-air, good footsies, good damage, and the ability to lame characters out, you could argue that people are overrating him because of his ridiculous resets. However, this isn't the case. Smoke bomb is really the problem here because it allows him to do these resets all over the screen. Doing 30+% damage off a fast projectile is pretty stupid. Doing 100% damage off a fast projectile is retarded. With Smoke, you can have 2 bars/1% health and hit an opponent with no meter/80% health and win the match. Why are people saying he's overrated? Isn't the point of fighting games to do damage and kill people?

Let me reiterate. Smoke has options all over the screen. Smoke can lame people out. Smoke has amazing anti-air. Smoke has mixups. Smoke has great pokes. Smoke is almost completely resistant to zoning. All this, and Smoke has 100% combos. Only in Mortal Kombat would people be debating if a character like Smoke is top 10. This character is broken. That's why I picked him up lol.

This.
I remember when people thought Cyrax was also out of the top 10.
In any fighting game, if someone can kill you by touching you once, their should be NO debate, no matter how hard or easy it is to do.

 

[Pho Cubic]

But scorpion can use b2 from max distance and cancel the low into his safe slide... Honestly if I left them in the 50/50 9 times out of 10 I'd just go with the safe low for a damage extension and oki, and i'd only sometimes throw the b2 and it'd be from max distance so even if it's blocked, GL punishing it. Scorpion enrages me more than anyone else when I fight him, I should probably just pick him up at this point...

Pick him up. He's like a ghetto Smoke.

Hellfire/spear is how he trolls from fullscreen instead of Smoke bomb, Smoke away.
Vortex is a ghetto version of Smoke's reset, but doesn't need meter.
Scorpion's anti-air kicks ass...it's probably top 5 anti-air in the game.
To poke out of pressure, Scorpion uses...ummm...well he can...uhhhh....he has...hmmm.....gg.

 

[STRYKIE]

I wouldn't really call Smoke's reset a gamble. I land the reset 70% of the time and I suck balls. Top Smoke players are probably in the 90+% range. Now...Scorpion's vortex mixup...that is a gamble because even if you do it a million times, it doesn't improve your chances. The only thing that determines whether you get it or not is if your opponent blocks correctly. I'm an ex-Scorpion player myself and guessing wrong on the Vortex feels like going all in on full house Aces and getting beat by four-of-a-kind 7s. Not only did you mess up, but now you're gonna get raped. That is a gamble.

The odds of the player dropping Smoke's reset can be significantly reduced with practice. Besides this discussion is about whether or not Smoke is overrated. Dropping resets is the player's fault, not the character's.

A disciplined Scorpion will evaluate what vortex setup he used and how it will condition the opponent in what they decide to do next. Making a braindead guess and just throwing out B2 or F4~Spear point blank on each one is just asking to die.

Also, I haven't once called Smoke overrated or underrated here, my theory is to get an idea of what everybody's consensus of the character would be without the resets. For worse, or *gasp* better. On paper, it's a downplaying context, but then I openly acknowledge that every single character I play loses to him regardless.