A Boxy Debate: "Batgirl Was The Omen."

[M2Dave]

That teleport is one of the least concerns at high level gameplay.

You are a fool.

He doesn't get in for free. He has to play the game.

The Flash gets in almost just as easily as Batgirl and Martian Manhunter do.

 

[Rude]

Yes but nearly all of her universal options she has are simply better tools than most of the cast's equivalent It's easy to break it down on paper and say these are her ways off getting in, but when you have to deal with the speed of them in game, the amount of them and the massively skewed risk/reward nature of her unique attacks it is a different thing entirely.

I think you're over generalizing a bit. This is a game where every character is unique and because of that, play completely differently. Even "bad" characters can blow you up if you don't know how their game works.

It depends on the match-up as far as how "overpowered" her tools are.

Is it at least possible that people haven't played enough Batgirls at Fox's level or equivalent? How many Batgirls on average sign up for a tournament?

I would argue that match-up inexperience plays a factor. This is a game where you HAVE to know every nuance of a match-up to win. Otherwise, characters like Catwoman can blow you up.

No one is saying it's EASY.

I'm saying it's not BROKEN or UNFAIR. There's a world of difference between the two.

 

[Phosferrax]

If you have a mid-hitting projectile, Running Man stance won't help him. And it's just like you said. He has to use the threat of his tools to walk and dash his way in. The only way his low even hits you is if he's RIGHT in your grill. I've rarely seen Flashes use Sonic Pound to get around zoning. It's more often used off of block strings and the like.

He does get a good combo into set-ups, oki, etc, off of lightning charge. If he's wrong, and it's crouch blocked, he's eating a full combo and depending on the character, possibly sent back to full screen.

He doesn't get in for free. He has to play the game.

Again, "He has to use the threat of his tools to walk and dash his way in" isn't the same as it is for other characters. Besides the fact that is an incredible general statement that can be applied to nearly every character in fighting games, regarding Injustice, whilst has to play the game, he is among the best characters equipped to play it, in ways that most of the cast wishes they were. Someone like MMH or Zod doesn't have to play the game, so whilst they are in a different league, Flash is easily at the top of the normal league.

The Flash simply doesn't get zoned like the rest of the cast does. I know he doesn't get in for free, but he gets a massive discount.

 

[Phosferrax]

I think you're over generalizing a bit. This is a game where every character is unique and because of that, play completely differently. Even "bad" characters can blow you up if you don't know how their game works.

It depends on the match-up as far as how "overpowered" her tools are.

Is it at least possible that people haven't played enough Batgirls at Fox's level or equivalent? How many Batgirls on average sign up for a tournament?

I would argue that match-up inexperience plays a factor. This is a game where you HAVE to know every nuance of a match-up to win. Otherwise, characters like Catwoman can blow you up.

No one is saying it's EASY.

I'm saying it's not BROKEN or UNFAIR. There's a world of difference between the two.

And I am not saying it's free or easy, nor am I saying it is broken or unfair. However, she definitely leans more towards 'Unfair' on a black and white spectrum.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Lol.

MMH, Zod, AM... but batgirl broke the game. Mmk

 

[NoobHunter420]

Mileena will be the doom of MKX.

 

[Rude]

Again, "He has to use the threat of his tools to walk and dash his way in" isn't the same as it is for other characters. Besides the fact that is an incredible general statement that can be applied to nearly every character in fighting games, regarding Injustice, whilst has to play the game, he is among the best characters equipped to play it, in ways that most of the cast wishes they were. Someone like MMH or Zod doesn't have to play the game, so whilst they are in a different league, Flash is easily at the top of the normal league.

The Flash simply doesn't get zoned like the rest of the cast does. I know he doesn't get in for free, but he gets a massive discount.

Just because he has good tools to play the game, doesn't mean he doesn't still have to do it, which was the only real point I was trying to make.

He isn't, "Derp, lightning charge 50/50 lolz." Which is a common narrative when talking about The Flash. Of course, arguing the minutiae of how easy/difficult it is for him to get it would depend on who he's fighting. Does he get past Aquaman's footsie tools as easily as he does say...Batman? I would argue that would depend on the character.

If he's making reads to get in...if he's playing Injustice's version of footsies, then he's playing the game.

 

[Rude]

And I am not saying it's free or easy, nor am I saying it is broken or unfair. However, she definitely leans more towards 'Unfair' on a black and white spectrum.

Actually...I don't want to come off as overly aggressive or anything.

We probably just have different viewpoints, that's all.

 

[Crusty]

You are a fool..

We could do without the name direct name calling.

The only reason why I said it wasn't an issue at a high level play because I fought a fair amount of high level Batgirl players online. Now granted I never fought one in tourney but I understand why people think it is a problem even tho avoiding it is somewhat easy as I've been on the other side of that blender and in those corner combos and I can say without a doubt that its not fun. No high level batgirl player I've fought at least would throw their teleport on me for whatever reason whenever they wanted, either unless they caught me jumping or using an interactable

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

I do not agree.

Aquaman didn't have a 50/50 and he was winning plenty of majors/locals.
Doomsday doesn't have one, and he's placed quite a bit.
Raven didn't have one, and she made top 8 at KiT.
Sinestro does, but that's not all that Sinestro uses in a match up.
Batman has a situational 50/50, but most Batman players don't use it, and he's placed/won plenty of majors.
Zod primarily zones, and he's placed. He has mix-ups, but I don't think he has a true, unseeable 50/50. (Dave/Pig can correct me on this.)

If the 50/50 was as strong as the narrative implies, why didn't Killer Frost do more? Her ENTIRE deal, just like Batgirl, is the 50/50 and she controls space very well.

The Flash does have plenty of 50/50s, but he has to play EVERYONE ELSE'S GAME first, before he can come in and start his. He's a very footsie intensive character. Superman is another one with a situational guessing game, but primarily wins with footsies/counterzoning/conditioning. He, like Batman, is a very solid character.

I don't buy the narrative.

The narrative only begins with Batgirl.
There's a hundred other factors that count towards why IGAU didn't get as big or stay popular as was expected, but in my eyes, it became plain and obvious to me when she started going to work.
I just had feels, man. I wanted to be wrong, I wouldn't have minded at all if the game was still going extra-strong now. But it felt like after that, even that soon, it was gonna have a lot of fun before it died, but it wasn't gonna be MK9 levels of hype. Not for me, anyway.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Retina...aids...GALORE.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Did injustice let Batgirl down or did Batgirle let injustice down

whoah deep stuff.....!

 

[KeyserSoze]

She's not even the best character in the game. She's probably not even top 2. But ok.

 

[NY-Shadow]

I agree with everything in the grand expression but the area of Sonic Fox getting legitimate props as champion = NO WAY. No player can main such a overpowered and broken character that has so many options, mixups and safe moves and expect to be looked upon with respect for his/her gameplay skills. Batgirl is the reason why Sonic Fox wins period. If he was such a great player let him pickup a character like Batman and see if he would win any tournament at all. Sonic Fox has no superior legitimate skills, its 75% character advantage and 25% player skill. Bottom line. Batgirl should have been banned from all major tournaments.

 

[16 Bit]

I don't mind fighting her.

 

[NY-Shadow]

Part of a Batgirl players advantage is the constant fear of having your moves get outbeat, your wakeups killed and punished, your specials wiffed, environmental objects smoke bombed escaped. That character has way too many options even on wakeup attacks. How the hell is NRS going to give Batman (the star of the damn game) two of the useless wakeup attacks in the game! A brutally predictable and punishable slide, and an extremely risky wakeup Parry! Why didn't they give him a cartwheel wakeup that can hit overhead and low? Why didn't they make his Dark Avenger move a wakeup attack? This is what I'm talking about, he has only two shitty wakeup attacks. How many wakeup attacks does Batgirl have = like what, eight!!!!!
I'm utterly disgusted with NRS and Injustice. This new game they better give Scorpion the moveset and tools to compete against characters like Kitana, Mileena, and Kung Lao.

 

[NY-Shadow]

I don't mind fighting her.

You know, as much as we may disagree on other things, I give you total respect for your Catwoman in Injustice. You are truly a player that shows skill over character advantages. Much respect to you 16 Bitt as Catwoman.

 

[16 Bit]

I think the majority of the community just don't have a strong enough neutral game to beat Sonic Fox.

 

[NY-Shadow]

I think the majority of the community just don't have a strong enough neutral game to beat Sonic Fox.

Niether did you, and that's saying a lot because you truly have the skill as a player to beat someone like Foxx, but again his character gave him the advantage over someone even as skilled as you. I've seen you play, and I must admit it's incredible to watch you use Catwoman the way you do, it's like you live through her and bring her to life. Watching your Catwoman is very inspiring actually.

 

[16 Bit]

Niether did you, and that's saying a lot because you truly have the skill as a player to beat someone like Foxx, but again his character gave him the advantage over someone as skilled as you.

I beat him the last time we played.

I'm not saying I would have won if we played again during his post EVO reign but I'm confident if we played I could go toe to toe with him in the neutral and if I lost it'd be him out playing me.

 

[Pnut]

Batgirl didn't kill this game, people that stopped traveling to play it did. Sorry a guy that was clearly a better player won all of these tournaments.

 

[NY-Shadow]

Batgirl didn't kill this game, people that stopped traveling to play it did. Sorry a guy that was clearly a better player won all of these tournaments.

Yeah because they stopped traveling to a tournament that allowed the use of a broken and cheating character that gave a player illegitimate wins.

 

[NY-Shadow]

We could do without the name direct name calling.

The only reason why I said it wasn't an issue at a high level play because I fought a fair amount of high level Batgirl players online. Now granted I never fought one in tourney but I understand why people think it is a problem even tho avoiding it is somewhat easy as I've been on the other side of that blender and in those corner combos and I can say without a doubt that its not fun. No high level batgirl player I've fought at least would throw their teleport on me for whatever reason whenever they wanted, either unless they caught me jumping or using an interactable

It's the constant threat of the unseen teleport that increases the fear and stress when fighting Batgirl, outside of her other trapping ridiculous moves.

 

[BillStickers]

The only reason why I said it wasn't an issue at a high level play because I fought a fair amount of high level Batgirl players online.

hahahaha oh wow this is GOLD.

 

[Evil Canadian]

Batgirl didn't kill this game, people that stopped traveling to play it did. Sorry a guy that was clearly a better player won all of these tournaments.

... you're not sorry at all!