62% Reset 1 bar

[TONY-T]

this is the standard BnB that i use.

i have combos over 80% and higher but #1. i dont consider the combos into the 80's BnB and #2. they are soon to be going bye bye...

Instead of doing 3,3~net, 3,3~ragdoll at the end, You can do this...

u,f+2, 2,1~net, u,f+2, 2,1~EXbomb, midbomb, 1, 2~closebomb, 2~chestsaw, u+2, b+2, 1,2,1~ragdoll....

It does 75%!

 

[johnwayne]

ouch, kth puttin tom on blast.

To be honest. Tom puts himself on blast with the crap he posts. KTH just called him out on it.

Thing is... many players, such as myself, knew about these resets from playing around with the game for a while. Many chose not to post them due to the "balance" patches.

Also since Online is quite bad and there is no offline scene for MK near me, I don't take the game too seriously. Thank god. Sucks though, see a lot of potential with the game. However, I fear they are changing it too much and other new games will draw those of us away who are unable to play the characters we want at the level we want to.

 

[TONY-T]

im up to 95% now with a 3 bar damage reset! only i had to use the wall to get the extra 2%. im pretty sure that would be his limit, but i could be wrong. can still do a 93% 3 bar damage reset midscreen though!

 

[salvificblood]

To be honest. Tom puts himself on blast with the crap he posts. KTH just called him out on it.

Thing is... many players, such as myself, knew about these resets from playing around with the game for a while. Many chose not to post them due to the "balance" patches.

A balance patch would see Cyrax's opponents gain no meter during Cyrax's 95% combos. Also, scale the damage a bit less for 98%; Cyrax should be able to win with a single low poke outside of this combo.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

IMO it's not that Cyrax and Sub aren't good enough. It's just that Kung Lao, Reptile and Kabal are too good for this game. They're the real problem. Cyrax doesn't need a buff or 80% combos, he's already a great character. It's the top 5 that need to be tone down. But even damage nerfing would be pointless because the way they were designed makes them better by default. They just have better offensive and defensive tools than everyone else.

NRS would have to nerf those characters to a point where they would have to work way too hard for any amount of damage. And even then they would still likely dominate because of their specials, safe strings, set ups and pokes alone. So they would also need to increase recovery and start up of some moves. But then you would eventually get to a point were the characters become crap because you nerf them too much.

NRS just dropped the ball when they designed some of the characters.

 

[Sultani]

Cyrax has like a billion 45% - 55% one meter combos without these ridiculous damage resets. That's more than can be said for several other characters. My BnB is 65% with one meter. three is 89%. That's just stupid. No combo should do that much damage. Wanting more than 50% is just plain greedy.

He has a CG into free jump that leads into hit confirming neverending CG loops, or right into your gigantic combos on confirm. That's insane. He has regular combos that can do mid to upper 30%. That's pretty standard as well.

I'd like to see the "one of the best wakeup games in mk9" claim backed up though... I mean, let's just think about that... Kano, Mileena, Smoke, Sub Zero, Reptile, Ermac, Noob, Kenshi, Nightwolf, Kung Lao.... They're still in this game right?

 

[salvificblood]

Cyrax has like a billion 45% - 55% one meter combos without these ridiculous damage resets. That's more than can be said for several other characters. My BnB is 65% with one meter. three is 89%. That's just stupid. No combo should do that much damage. Wanting more than 50% is just plain greedy.

He has a CG into free jump that leads into hit confirming neverending CG loops, or right into your gigantic combos on confirm. That's insane. He has regular combos that can do mid to upper 30%. That's pretty standard as well.

I'd like to see the "one of the best wakeup games in mk9" claim backed up though... I mean, let's just think about that... Kano, Mileena, Smoke, Sub Zero, Reptile, Ermac, Noob, Kenshi, Nightwolf, Kung Lao.... They're still in this game right?

Yeah, Sub-Zero's slide which is a billion percent punishable on block and his ice clone which only comes out half the time when you're being pressured on wakeup. Yeah, Sub-Zero's wakeup game is definitely a thousand times better than Cyrax's. I mean, whatever will my opponent do against that?

 

[Vulcan Hades]

People saying Cyrax has poor wake up options are just plain silly. I would LOVE having an air throw with Stryker that gets rid of cross-over pressure. I would LOVE having a teleport that explodes in my opponent's face. Tom is right: people say Cyrax has a bad wake up but it's because Cyrax players are greedy bastards that don't want to burn meter on wake up. They want everything for free and they want to use all their meter on those 80% combos.

 

[Sultani]

Yeah, Sub-Zero's slide which is a billion percent punishable on block and his ice clone which only comes out half the time when you're being pressured on wakeup. Yeah, Sub-Zero's wakeup game is definitely a thousand times better than Cyrax's. I mean, whatever will my opponent do against that?

Figure out that "wake up game" includes both offensive and defensive sides... then try again. Sub zero is better. Wakeup game is not limited to the options that the player on the ground has upon wakeup.. it includes the opponent ability to defend against the options they have.

It's not plain silly to say Cyrax doesn't have a great wakeup game.. in fact, satying that he needs to use a meter to have a good one is evidence in favor of it... and, again, take into consideration both offensive and defensive sides of what a wake up game is. Not just the wakeup move itself. That is what is just plain silly.

Sub zero's ability to trump a character's wakeup attack is FAR better than Cyrax's. I've seen 22 pressure hit wakeup teleports even though the person is behind sub zero.

 

[salvificblood]

Figure out that "wake up game" includes both offensive and defensive sides... then try again. Sub zero is better. Wakeup game is not limited to the options that the player on the ground has upon wakeup.. it includes the opponent ability to defend against the options they have.

It's not plain silly to say Cyrax doesn't have a great wakeup game.. in fact, satying that he needs to use a meter to have a good one is evidence in favor of it... and, again, take into consideration both offensive and defensive sides of what a wake up game is. Not just the wakeup move itself. That is what is just plain silly.

Sub zero's ability to trump a character's wakeup attack is FAR better than Cyrax's. I've seen 22 pressure hit wakeup teleports even though the person is behind sub zero.

My gosh is this stupid. You can put a net on the screen to negate all of Sub-Zero's wakeup options. I don't even need to say any more.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

Tom said something pretty interesting on the show...a good cyrax always has meter, i mean fuck it's true. I've never been in a situation where i've never had meter...so yeah we can burn almost all the meter we want for wake-ups and whatnot.

 

[Sultani]

Yes. this is stupid. You still don't seem to understand what a wkaeup GAME is. You basically said that Cyrax should stop trying to pressure you if he knocks you down because of your wakeup options... something that cyrax needs a meter to do, which basically means his method for negating your wakeup is that he can't pressure you. Punishability and damage dealing aside, the wakeup advantage goes to sub zero's zoning. Your argument and example of how to negate your wakeups is one that shows cyrax having to back off, but you're saying sub zero's wakeup game isn't better? Come on... you can do better than that.

But yea, even if we've concluded after this (which we wouldn't) that cyrax is better at overall wakeup game than sub zero, it still doesn't mean there aren't SEVERAL characters with better wake up games, which was the point to begin with, and entirely separate from individual scenarios. Let's just pretend for a minute that a good cyrax always has a meter and uses his en teleport wakeup all the time, basically meaning that no one can pressure him. The conclusion does not follow from this that he has a better wakeup game, because every single one of the characters I mentioned above has better options for stopping or trumping their opponent's wakeups.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

I find it amusing that most of the people dying to see Cyrax get nerfed hard are Sub Zero fans. What? Ice clone spamming and corner ice clone spam traps aren't working for you? Can't slide on Cyrax on wakeup? Are his bombs and nets forcing you to play on his terms rather than yours, since you subby's like bullying people and making them play on your terms? Seriously, what is it? It's evident you have something against this character.

 

[salvificblood]

Yes. this is stupid. You still don't seem to understand what a wkaeup GAME is. So Cyrax should stop trying to pressure you if he knocks you down because of your wakeup options, which basically means his method for negating your wakeup is that he can't pressure you.

I am terribly sorry you can't have your cake and eat it, too. I really am.

Seriously, do you want Cyrax players to be seen as the biggest whiners and, sorry to say it, bullshitters in the MK community? I am sorry you don't beat me at the select screen, I truly am.

I find it amusing that most of the people dying to see Cyrax get nerfed hard are Sub Zero fans. What? Ice clone spamming and corner ice clone spam traps aren't working for you? Can't slide on Cyrax on wakeup? Are his bombs and nets forcing you to play on his terms rather than yours, since you subby's like bullying people and making them play on your terms? Seriously, what is it? It's evident you have something against this character.

ROFL. It's obviously related to Sub-Zero... obviously. The fact you can do 95% combos is everything to do with the character Sub-Zero. You're onto something. I think it could be a conspiracy...

 

[GodsLonelyman]

I just love how you and the other Sub players have attempted to twist up my words and others words. I never wrote that it has to do with a Sub zero "conspiracy", I am just stating the obvious, most of the whiners crying for nerfs on this thread and brown nosing Tom are indeed Sub Zero mainers/fans. Tom himself is a Sub Zero user and you appear to be as well along with a few others a few posts back. I am not going to respond to this thread anymore, stating valid facts and disagreeing with Tom is like blasphemy apparently. And you my friend just don't want to see the facts staring right back at you, you continue to dismiss all valid points Cyrax users have made with petty sarcasm and failed attempts at humor. Let NRS decide whatever the fuck it is they want to do, if they nerf him again, so be it. Fuck it.

 

[salvificblood]

I just love how you and the other Sub players have attempted to twist up my words and others words. I never wrote that it has to do with a Sub zero "conspiracy", I am just stating the obvious, most of the whiners crying for nerfs on this thread and brown nosing Tom are indeed Sub Zero mainers/fans. Tom himself is a Sub Zero user and you appear to be as well along with a few others a few posts back. I am not going to respond to this thread anymore, stating valid facts and disagreeing with Tom is like blasphemy apparently. And you my friend just don't want to see the facts staring right back at you, you continue to dismiss all valid points Cyrax users have made with petty sarcasm and failed attempts at humor. Let NRS decide whatever the fuck it is they want to do, if they nerf him again, so be it. Fuck it.

The problem is not that you disagree with someone, it's in the obvious lack of objectivity you're displaying. Some Cyrax players have basically said: Cyrax has weaknesses (which turn out not to be weaknesses)... make up for them with 70-95% resets. Nobody takes that seriously. It's just sad.

 

[Sultani]

heh.. this is cute.. Guy starts whining from the get go and now he's accusing me of whining. My original post was that these huge damage resets are ridiculous and you guys are insane if you don't see necessary removal coming.

I'm glad you stopped trying to defend your stance that cyrax is a better wakeup game character though and instead resorted to calling me a bullshitter. A valid point for sure.

Keep hiding behind those ice clones. and keep pretending that forcing a character to back off from pressure in fear of your wakeup options somehow means that they have a better wakeup game. That might be the most retarded suggestion I've ever heard.

It is a fact that you suggested this. You don't get to slam anyone for lack of objectivity.

 

[Thead]

Yes. this is stupid. You still don't seem to understand what a wkaeup GAME is

The conclusion does not follow from this that he has a better wakeup game, because every single one of the characters I mentioned above has better options for stopping or trumping their opponent's wakeups.

Are you saying Cyrax's ability to pressure after he has knocked the opponent is sub-par? That's the gist I get from your posts.

Try using Ground Bombs after a knockdown to FORCE the opponent to do something.

 

[salvificblood]

heh.. this is cute.. Guy starts whining from the get go and now he's accusing me of whining. My original post was that these huge damage resets are ridiculous and you guys are insane if you don't see necessary removal coming.

I'm glad you stopped trying to defend your stance that cyrax is a better wakeup game character though and instead resorted to calling me a bullshitter. A valid point for sure.

Keep hiding behind those ice clones. and keep pretending that forcing a character to back off from pressure in fear of your wakeup options somehow means that they have a better wakeup game. That might be the most retarded suggestion I've ever heard.

It is a fact that you suggested this. You don't get to slam anyone for lack of objectivity.

I haven't backed off from any points I've made. I don't have a problem with Sub's oki. It's Cyrax players who are trying to claim Cyrax doesn't have a good wakeup game because you require meter to utilise it. What I pointed it out is that no character (in the example I provided, Sub-Zero), has it perfect. As I said, if Sub slides into your net on wakeup, he's going to eat a massive combo so I can't ever wakeup slide you. Even if you come in really close, I still can't wakeup slide because you could be baiting me into a slide only to block low and punish with full combo. This means you can pressure my wakeup, in fact, it just comes down to judgement. What more do you want?

 

[Sega]

its not the weapon that makes the man; its the man that makes the weapon.

 

[Sultani]

I haven't backed off from any points I've made. I don't have a problem with Sub's oki. It's Cyrax players who are trying to claim Cyrax doesn't have a good wakeup game because you require meter to utilise it. What I pointed it out is that no character (in the example I provided, Sub-Zero), has it perfect. As I said, if Sub slides into your net on wakeup, he's going to eat a massive combo so I can't ever wakeup slide you. Even if you come in really close, I still can't wakeup slide because you could be baiting me into a slide only to block low and punish with full combo. This means you can pressure my wakeup, in fact, it just comes down to judgement. What more do you want?

Completely valid point. I guess it really is just a guessing game when you look at it.

Anyway, back to the ridiculous resets...

I don't agree that the only solution is to remove bombs from normals.

What about simply making the duration for when the damage resets slightly longer anfter being netter or chest sawed? That way these gigantic resets would be cut off and wouldn't allow for the njp into the 2nd half and instead would have to be fnished there. There would still be a ton of 45 - 55%ish combos available, just no resets for absurd damage and the gameplay of the character wouldn't be entirely altered.

 

[Raven3r]

I think the best way to solve the reset problem is make it so that the combo does not end until the opponent hits the ground. That way there are no playstyle changes and any high damage problem there may be can be solved later by changing the scaling.

 

[PND_Mustard]

it's a shame to see this thread turn into an argument, personally i feel cyrax doesnt need any buffs, the ONLY thing i think needs changing are his resets, and maybe a small damage reduction on his combos, getting 50% as opposed to 57% would seem perfectly fine to me, i asked paulo garcia via twitter if cyrax was getting his resets taken out as they didnt seem intentionally left in, and he replied with that they're not being taken out, but altered so they dont do as much damage, i can't believe we have people actually saying cyrax needs improvement when there's still characters like Baraka in this game.

 

[babalook]

How can anybody whine about cyrax's damage it isn't exactly easy to land a 12, 21, or 33(punishable) so when he does land a hit he gets great dmg if the opponent doesn't have meter to break. Not to mention his combos have a ton of hits in them which will build meter for them to breaker typically unless u start the combo when they have 0 meter. One more thing, what is good about cyrax's wakeup i have been hit out teleport and EX teleport and if they bait the teleport it is very easy to whiff punish (the Ex teleport is punishable too if they don't block it, which happens all the time). I think once the patches stop and people look deeper into strategies and matchups things will change around here.

 

[Mt. Mutombo]

it's a shame to see this thread turn into an argument, personally i feel cyrax doesnt need any buffs, the ONLY thing i think needs changing are his resets, and maybe a small damage reduction on his combos, getting 50% as opposed to 57% would seem perfectly fine to me, i asked paulo garcia via twitter if cyrax was getting his resets taken out as they didnt seem intentionally left in, and he replied with that they're not being taken out, but altered so they dont do as much damage, i can't believe we have people actually saying cyrax needs improvement when there's still characters like Baraka in this game.

On the contrary my friend...nothing better than a little constructive conflict...better to have things like these discussed rather than just have a cyrax related nerd orgy. Out of all of this, we got Tom to share some good insight on STBL about cyrax.