Tier List through my eyes

[DownfouralitY]

Ares loses to Bane so hard a proper term to describe it would imply it requires a helmet when it goes out in public.
He has no wake-ups at all ever. Bane doesn't have to care about his zoning.

And thats the sum of it. Thats all that matters. He goes down, he never gets back up.

I fought a good bane in ranked today and I couldn't do jack fucking shit against bane w ares. NERF BANE NAO

 

[JaredL]

I never said it wasn't. Simply that they are the same range.
Also that trying to stuff the b.2 part of b.23 without risking me backdashing is what I listed.

Your up-playing is misleading.

"Same range as F23!"

When really, the small print is more important.

 

[Sasuga]

why in the hell would I use scorpion now after they NUKED him. They didn't nerf him they nuked him

Max damage spear combo is 20%
Max damage mb teleport punch combo is 19%
MB teleport punch is punishable by hella members of the cast.
J3 and J1 mineswell not even be in the game anymore cause they hit nothing.
Scorpion has no footsies at all besides flip kick.
Spear on whiff and block don't even make sense for the risk vs reward. If I hit you I get 20% with meter burn. If I whiff I lose 40%+

Yeah, now you have to work for your damage. Who's lazy now!

 

[Doombawkz]

Your up-playing is misleading.

"Same range as F23!"

When really, the small print is more important.

More like I'm focused on the subject at hand while you are more concerned with saving face when you are wrong for the second time about the same subject. I said b.23 and f.23 cover the same distance, which on a practical standpoint they do. I never said they were equal in all respects, but if you need to re-read the small print you are welcome to review my previous posts explaining the usages of b.23 and b.2 in general.

I don't bother to up-play since most people are mislead about details anyways, meaning I could be telling the exact truth and people wouldn't know. I'm informing about a particular scenario, to which your choice to agree or not is unimportant and optional. If you feel like you have to for whatever reason, it won't make you less wrong simply because you try to straw-man your way out of it. However, since the first patch I've yet to be wrong about a good collection of things people have chosen to deny without a second thought, so its not like you being wrong is anything new. If you think b.23 and f.23 aren't similar in range (which you've claimed before and have been proven wrong a multitude of times before resorting to your current state where you attempt to attack an argument I'm not making), then by all means provide proof to the point. If you have quarrels with any other aspect of the move, then take it to someone who cares.

Just kidding, even if you do have quarrels with the range aspect I don't care since you don't really have any credibility on the subject nor is your opinion relevant to me. I doubt most people would care, come to think of it. I like typing out long paragraphs because theres not much else to do at the moment.

tl;dr : You are wrong (again) about the range (again), and thats the only thing I bothered to bring up so don't try to argue points that aren't important to the subject at hand. M2Dave's opinion of deathstroke is more accurate than your statements are on average.

 

[JaredL]

More like I'm focused on the subject at hand while you are more concerned with saving face when you are wrong for the second time about the same subject. I said b.23 and f.23 cover the same distance, which on a practical standpoint they do. I never said they were equal in all respects, but if you need to re-read the small print you are welcome to review my previous posts explaining the usages of b.23 and b.2 in general.

I don't bother to up-play since most people are mislead about details anyways, meaning I could be telling the exact truth and people wouldn't know. I'm informing about a particular scenario, to which your choice to agree or not is unimportant and optional. If you feel like you have to for whatever reason, it won't make you less wrong simply because you try to straw-man your way out of it. However, since the first patch I've yet to be wrong about a good collection of things people have chosen to deny without a second thought, so its not like you being wrong is anything new. If you think b.23 and f.23 aren't similar in range (which you've claimed before and have been proven wrong a multitude of times before resorting to your current state where you attempt to attack an argument I'm not making), then by all means provide proof to the point. If you have quarrels with any other aspect of the move, then take it to someone who cares.

You make a claim that said:

"B23 is the same range as F23 superman!", in a vacuum that is very misleading since the first hit can wiff and be punished, and its slower on start up.

You also said that F2D covers half screen. It covers around 1/4.

Just saying random things like that is misleading because it withholds a lot of information that is required to give context.

Shazams B23 covers huge distance. Why does no one give much of a shit? Why does no one say "B23 shazam covers F23 superman distance!", because the two are so different in so many ways, that to compare them like that is to be misleading and deceitful.

 

[@MylesWright_]

Doomsday and GL S tier. Yeah maybe week 1 injustice but not now

 

[Doombawkz]

You make a claim that said:

"B23 is the same range as F23 superman!", in a vacuum that is very misleading since the first hit can wiff and be punished, and its slower on start up.

You also said that F2D covers half screen. It covers around 1/4.

Just saying random things like that is misleading because it withholds a lot of information that is required to give context.

Shazams B23 covers huge distance. Why does no one give much of a shit? Why does no one say "B23 shazam covers F23 superman distance!", because the two are so different in so many ways, that to compare them like that is to be misleading and deceitful.

b.23 and f.23 are the same range, so thats not misleading or deceitful. Its a proven fact that their ranges are similar, I never bothered to talk about whiff punishment or start-up, just the range. Once again, you are arguing points I never bothered to argue. It doesn't take a brilliant mind to see b.23 is slower and punishable, so its not really a point to debate.

f.2.d covering half screen was already explained to be a joke. You selectively read.

Not really, it explains all the information it needs to. "What amount of range does b.23 cover? As much as f.23 from superman." Thats proven to be pretty much true, and as far as its concerned it shows all the information necessary and covers the context.

b.23 covers more than f.23 superman distance (to my knowledge), but no one cares because unlike you, no one goes out of their way to say "hurr durr but its not 8 framnez". If someone says that, and its true, people accept it. If its not, people correct it. If someone compares distance from point A to point B, I don't need to know the color of their house.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I always though GL was really good. Who does he struggle against?

 

[Doombawkz]

I always though GL was really good. Who does he struggle against?

Anyone with decent meter generation, since MBs beat his wake-ups. Nightwing and Bane have good times against him since they can keep strong pressure and abuse his lack of mobility. Other people whom can zone effectively from full screen (also nightwing) or have good up-close armor options (also Bane) give him some hassle since they prevent him from taking comfort in that mid-range sweet spot he likes (from b.1 distance to lift distance)

 

[TakeAChance]

Anyone with decent meter generation, since MBs beat his wake-ups. Nightwing and Bane have good times against him since they can keep strong pressure and abuse his lack of mobility. Other people whom can zone effectively from full screen (also nightwing) or have good up-close armor options (also Bane) give him some hassle since they prevent him from taking comfort in that mid-range sweet spot he likes (from b.1 distance to lift distance)

GL is one of Nightwings worst matchups.

Once Nightwing is in with Staff Mode, GL can easily just pushblock him and make him go through the zoning neutral game again. THTB knows how to play this matchup correctly.

 

[Doombawkz]

GL is one of Nightwings worst matchups.

Once Nightwing is in with Staff Mode, GL can easily just pushblock him and make him go through the zoning neutral game again. THTB knows how to play this matchup correctly.

You think so? I'd assume Nightwing can just dick him out with ground sparks on account of his bad mobility. Also, MB b.3 in staff mode is the most godly attack ever.

 

[TakeAChance]

You think so? I'd assume Nightwing can just dick him out with ground sparks on account of his bad mobility. Also, MB b.3 in staff mode is the most godly attack ever.

Green Lantern never has to stay on the ground in the full screen war. Jump forward air oa rocket in combination with his regular rocket is enough to shut down Nightwings ground pounds.

B13 blows up MB b3. Nightwing can get in with grayson during certain holes in his zoning, but lantern can lift on reaction most of the time. Upclose if Nightwing is in escrima (which he will be to wade through the zoning) B13 covers every single option Nightwing has in the stance. He can't even poke after it reliably.

Nightwing kicks the shit out of him upclose in staff stance, but smart green lanterns should be utilizing pushblock and staying full screen as much as possible.

 

[JaredL]

b.23 and f.23 are the same range, so thats not misleading or deceitful. Its a proven fact that their ranges are similar, I never bothered to talk about whiff punishment or start-up, just the range. Once again, you are arguing points I never bothered to argue. It doesn't take a brilliant mind to see b.23 is slower and punishable, so its not really a point to debate.

f.2.d covering half screen was already explained to be a joke. You selectively read.

Not really, it explains all the information it needs to. "What amount of range does b.23 cover? As much as f.23 from superman." Thats proven to be pretty much true, and as far as its concerned it shows all the information necessary and covers the context.

b.23 covers more than f.23 superman distance (to my knowledge), but no one cares because unlike you, no one goes out of their way to say "hurr durr but its not 8 framnez". If someone says that, and its true, people accept it. If its not, people correct it. If someone compares distance from point A to point B, I don't need to know the color of their house.

Talking about something like 'B23 covers more range than supermans F23' is so misleading and deceitful because it is so meaningless.

Let me say this. Shazams B23 covers more range than Supermans F23.

What the fuck does that mean for anything? How does that affect anything? You're just trying to up-play Bane and posting random things in a vacuum and pretending that they are significant.

 

[Doombawkz]

Green Lantern never has to stay on the ground in the full screen war. Jump forward air oa rocket in cobination with his regular rocket is enough to shut down Nightwings ground pounds.

B13 blows up MB b3. Nightwing can get in with grayson during certain holes in his zoning, but lantern can lift on reaction most of the time. Upclose if Nightwing is in escrima (which he will be to wade through the zoning) B13 covers every single option Nightwing has in the stance. He can't even poke after it reliably.

Nightwing kicks the shit out of him upclose in staff stance, but smart green lanterns should be utilizing pushblock and staying full screen as much as possible.

Ah thats right, you guys don't have much for air control (though your little side kick looking thing seems to be effective.)
And I mean MB b.3 against his wake-ups. You have the option that if you ever knock him down it'll be hard for him to ever get up again. Even using push-block, he will be sacrificing a lot of damage for the sake of trying to keep you out. In the meantime, you'll generate plenty of meter to keep going in.

To that note though, as a Bane I can imagine the trouble caused by air Oas. We also have trouble with minigun, but imo GL vs Bane is very much in our favor since once he gets knocked down he has balls of a time getting back up. (We can nullify push-block though sooo)

 

[Doombawkz]

Talking about something like 'B23 covers more range than supermans F23' is so misleading and deceitful because it is so meaningless.

Let me say this. Shazams B23 covers more range than Supermans F23.

What the fuck does that mean for anything? How does that affect anything? You're just trying to up-play Bane and posting random things in a vacuum and pretending that they are significant.

b.23 cover the same range as superman's f.23. To you? It means nothing. To a Bane player, it means 70% of the cast can't escape the d.1 b.23 frame trap by backdashing or walking back. It means chasing tech rolls, prevent jump-backs (since b.2 command grab on block is linkable through cancel), stuffing buffers, and the like. Your shallow pool of knowledge wouldn't let you conceptualize it, but I can assure it is means quite a bit.

Shazam's b.23 covers more range than Superman's f.23. Yeah, I suppose it does. What does it mean?

I'm no expert on shazam, but I would suppose that means you have an option to close quite a bit of distance with an overhead. Against characters with vertical-based zoning (like hawkgirl or GL) you may have an option to get in between the maces or missiles outside of teleport. You could probably use it in tech chases, and for a character so dependent on staying in I'm sure it has plenty of benefit.

I don't need to up-play Bane when the facts are as clear as they are. Its not my fault you can't comprehend it.

 

[JaredL]

b.23 cover the same range as superman's f.23. To you? It means nothing. To a Bane player, it means 70% of the cast can't escape the d.1 b.23 frame trap by backdashing or walking back. It means chasing tech rolls, prevent jump-backs (since b.2 command grab on block is linkable through cancel), stuffing buffers, and the like. Your shallow pool of knowledge wouldn't let you conceptualize it, but I can assure it is means quite a bit.

Shazam's b.23 covers more range than Superman's f.23. Yeah, I suppose it does. What does it mean?

I'm no expert on shazam, but I would suppose that means you have an option to close quite a bit of distance with an overhead. Against characters with vertical-based zoning (like hawkgirl or GL) you may have an option to get in between the maces or missiles outside of teleport. You could probably use it in tech chases, and for a character so dependent on staying in I'm sure it has plenty of benefit.

I don't need to up-play Bane when the facts are as clear as they are. Its not my fault you can't comprehend it.

If you want to talk about frame traps, talk about frame traps. And pretty much anything except the slowest shit is guaranteed as a 'frame trap' after a D1 on hit. Its not some magic bane tech. Why do you think a lot of sinestros end their combos with J2D1.

As for Shazam... yeah you clearly are wrong for looking only at range and presuming a lot. His B2 has a shit hitbox and misses a lot of crouchers and its not safe so... woo.

 

[Doombawkz]

If you want to talk about frame traps, talk about frame traps. And pretty much anything except the slowest shit is guaranteed as a 'frame trap' after a D1 on hit. Its not some magic bane tech. Why do you think a lot of sinestros end their combos with J2D1.

As for Shazam... yeah you clearly are wrong for looking only at range and presuming a lot. His B2 has a shit hitbox and misses a lot of crouchers and its not safe so... woo.

Just for laughs, I'm supposing you forgot how it was all brought up. Me and a shazam were joking about swapping b.23s and I said mine covers the distance of Superman's f.23 so I'll pass, and f.2.d covered my half-screen overhead needs (jokingly). I never claimed Bane was any better or worse for it, simply that he had it. You got your knickers in a knot and tried to debate me on the same subject you already lost in.

As in you literally caused a fuss for no reason, and are trying to turn the situation. You wanted to debate b.23 and f.23's distance again, lost again, and thats about it. I'm tempted to insult you but honestly I don't have to speak words for your actions to fit them.

As for shazam, I prefaced it with "I'm no expert" so I'd assume I'm not completely accurate about a character I know or care nothing about.

 

[JaredL]

Just for laughs, I'm supposing you forgot how it was all brought up. Me and a shazam were joking about swapping b.23s and I said mine covers the distance of Superman's f.23 so I'll pass, and f.2.d covered my half-screen overhead needs (jokingly). I never claimed Bane was any better or worse for it, simply that he had it. You got your knickers in a knot and tried to debate me on the same subject you already lost in.

As in you literally caused a fuss for no reason, and are trying to turn the situation. You wanted to debate b.23 and f.23's distance again, lost again, and thats about it. I'm tempted to insult you but honestly I don't have to speak words for your actions to fit them.

As for shazam, I prefaced it with "I'm no expert" so I'd assume I'm not completely accurate about a character I know or care nothing about.

Yes, you said it jokingly. You didn't say a bunch of crap and then pretend it was all a joke to save face.

 

[Doombawkz]

Yes, you said it jokingly. You didn't say a bunch of crap and then pretend it was all a joke to save face.

Pass, my b.23 goes as far as superman f.23, and I already have a half screen overhead in f.2.d.

That was my post. f.2.d was the joke. Thats about it. You responded with "Theres no way b.23 goes as far as Superman's f.23"

So no, you are still wrong. I even explained the f.2.d joke in extreme detail in case the humor was lost on you as it often is.

We've had this conversation before. I ended up being correct.

Also I know f.2.d isn't actually half the screen, if you didn't realize the humor between me and the other fellow we were pitching wanting to swap moves and I was trying to tell about how I see shazam's half screen overhead to be as much use as our f.2.d is, jokingly saying "its half-screen too" to further accent my lack of want for his attack.

So no, you are still wrong. I could quote pretty much everything you've said from page 7 onwards and it wouldn't even be difficult to point out your ignorance and obvious misunderstanding of the content. Pretty much the only thing you've said that was relevant and accurate was admitting the b.23 and f.23 have similar ranges, even if for the first 2 pages you refused to admit it.

 

[Doombawkz]

Dude, B23 on Bane does not go as far as F23 on superman. Go in training mode, start as superman do F23.

and

Go in training mode.

See the neutral position it puts you in? F23 as superman hits you. B23 as bane does not.

turned into

You can sort of argue that they are the same range, but you can't argue that they are equal, or even similar in terms of utility.

After it became evident that you were very clearly wrong about the range, I.E. the only thing you brought up as an issue that wasn't explained clearly to be a satire.

While I continued to repeat over and over...

However, I never argued their utility since the characters are different. They are built to utilize their tools in different ways.

Only the range, to which its well noted to be equal or different to a minimal degree.

and

I never said it wasn't. Simply that they are the same range.
Also that trying to stuff the b.2 part of b.23 without risking me backdashing is what I listed.

and...

f.23 is longer range than Bane's d.1, as is Bane's b.23.

And I'm counting both hits, as both f.23 and b.23 travel the same distance, or a close enough distance as to where its negligible at best.

Which came before your "you can't say it has as much utility" post, mind you.

Do you see where my side of it never changed while your side of it swapped and side-stepped trying to make yourself even sound remotely accurate? I don't mind calling you out for your failures if you insist on making them so evident.

 

[Fergus]

Imo Harley should be B tier.

 

[JrK]

You mod out the good shit, and leave the multi page bane bickering. Fail

List looks pretty good though.

 

[Doombawkz]

You mod out the good shit, and leave the multi page bane bickering. Fail

List looks pretty good though.

"All topics begin with Bane, and all so end. The conversation is no different. Bane sprouts within it, grows, consumes it. Such is his nature. In the end, every topic returns to the Bane whence it came. You see, Bane is the forum's true essence."
-Baneanort : Kingdom Banes II

 

[VOR]

DD is low A or even high B. At one point, he was S, but since his nerfs and the universal wakeup and aa buffs, he's just not there anymore. Too many even or problem matchups to be that high.

 

[Dr. Handsome]

Its a talking point, a "start here and go forward as the game evolves" thing. In no way this any fact or final.

You still have batman at S tier. I'm generally curious on your opinion of the d2 improvement hence nerf for batman. In your opinion, is it as serious an issue as many are stating?