Wake up attacks in injustice too easy = good or not?

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

Meaty hits on wakeup are gone its bullshit and kills the true feeling of okizeme. I used to laugh about how digimon hated the wake ups in mk9 but since the patch I now understand where he was coming from.

the old version of _____ injustice with a toned down inv wake up system was for the better. now the ONLY THING i respected in _____ injustice is gone. LOLZ.

zero reason to play over MK now haha.

#whensmk9

 

[Eddy Wang]

I agree that doing the same wakeup attack on every knockdown is scrubby, but if thats what you get blown up by then youre an even bigger scrub lol

Most wakeups are fair.

The player getting B3 punished all the time trough spaming wakeups because they're mind fucked are definitely the scrubs, it was them who asked for a bigger window in first place lol.

 

[Hellbringer]

The player getting B3 punished all the time trough spaming wakeups because they're mind fucked are definitely the scrubs, it was them who asked for a bigger window in first place lol.

Like nrs listened to them...
The wakeup was broke so they fixed it, but because of the bigger window its more easy.
Btw spamming wakeups? Wtf is this...damn that scrub was spamming wakeups the whole time and i got owned cause he kept spamming it!

 

[Eddy Wang]

Like nrs listened to them...
The wakeup was broke so they fixed it, but because of the bigger window its more easy.
Btw spamming wakeups? Wtf is this...damn that scrub was spamming wakeups the whole time and i got owned cause he kept spamming it!

lol no.

Since they became easier to do, i haven't faced a single player who couldn't just help himself every time they felt a treat on the knockdown, just threw it out there hoping to stuff the offensive, which leaves open to another prespectives of the game. Dash block, armor with a B3 punish, counter with a interactable, crossups etc etc.

I know it was thigh before, but now is just way to easy to perform it.

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

my question is:

WHY SHOULD OPPONENTS WHO GET KNOCK DOWNED, BE REWARDED FOR ANY REASON?

Why should the opponent who got knocked down NOT have to worry about the aggressor's approach (if their execution/momentum is on point) and NOT be force to block a meaty or guess a mix up?

People make me LOL when I read, "Inv wake ups are OK because it makes the aggressor have to THINK"

ROFLMFAO yeah it'd make them think: "gee I'm not getting rewarded for working so hard to score a knock down with my character (especially in Injustice or low tier chars in MK9)." "Fuck meter management, I can wake up for free! FUCK YO MEATY, YO OKI, AND YOUR 50/50's! I DON'T WANT TO LEARN HOW TO BLOCK/DEAL WITH PRESSURE!" "I'm so smart of a player, that after a knock down I know it doesn't mean ANYTHING. So I'll bait your wake up attack instead of forcing you to guess right. I don't need to maintain control of the match. I'M THAT FUCKING SMART!"

 

[CrimsonShadow]

AU_IM_DIGIMON if someone is waking up for free, why don't you just bait the wakeup and make them pay for it. It'd require less effort than that post you just wrote

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

AU_IM_DIGIMON if someone is waking up for free, why don't you just bait the wakeup and make them pay for it. It'd require less effort than that post you just wrote

I shouldn't have to bait anything (unless my opponent has meter, where in GOOD fighting games this should be the case), my opponent should be fearful of my approach and be force to deal with the momentum that I DESERVE to have.

And if there are meterless inv wake ups moves in a fighting game, the window should be exceptionally small where only advance/good players can use it effectively.

wake ups should never be free imo.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

There are still a lot of wakeups in this game that can be beat out by one means or another; Deathstroke Sword spin can be neutral-jump punished, Lantern's Might can be crossed up, some are beaten by meaty lows, etc. A few of them are pretty free (like the Lightning Cage), but not every wakeup has priority over everything.

 

[Hellbringer]

But digimon, wakeup is just the same like in mk9...It was the developers their intent to make it work like this. For me when i play with a character without a wake up at all, im already in huge disadvantages after a knockdown. Your in disadvantage either way after a knockdown.

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

meterless inv wake up window in nrs games are waaay too big imo. i just simply am not a huge fan of it. what wasn't nrs' intent...SHOULD HAVE BEEN lol

again this is imo.

i want to be rewarded for a knock down at all times, unless my opppoent has meter or their on point in a game with a rather small inv window. and in 3d games, a knock down means opponent has to be on guess right at all times or escape properly (you better tech that shit).

 

[Alexandru Pascu]

I'm fine with them the way there are, that just means I eat a few less godsmacks when I'm playing against your already annoying Ares

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

...stop eating wakeups

Bait and punish = gauranteed damage
The 50/50 you wish you were doing instead isnt.

Stop crying, it is what it is.

Shit, if a guy waking up on every knockdown is what beats you then you deserve to lose.

If anything, some knockdowns are untechable, they could have implemented unwakeupable ones. I think that would be fair, but they didnt, so fuck it.

 

[Konqrr]

I absolutely hate the scrubby MK9 wakeup system and now it's back in Injustice... It really makes me not want to play anymore.

inb4 some scrubby KF slide comment #MPT

 

[Hellbringer]

Isnt it more scrubby to just rely on a knockdown and then gg after a knockdown?Maybe it should be less easy, smaller window, but when you still get your ass whooped by wakeup attack, do you still think wake up attack is scrubby?

 

[Konqrr]

Isnt it more scrubby to just rely on a knockdown and then gg after a knockdown?Maybe it should be less easy, smaller window, but when you still get your ass whooped by wakeup attack, do you still think wake up attack is scrubby?

It was a less easy, smaller window. Like MK9 and now in Injustice, there is almost no timing required. You can literally mash it out and it will come out with full invincibility. Before, you couldn't mash it, you had to time it in a very small window. This is fine as it favored the more skilled player. Some hard knockdowns had so much advantage that you couldn't wakeup at all. It guarantees nothing. You had to block a mixup or pressure situation and you have pushblock to get them off of you. The price you pay for being knocked down.

Sure, you can bait a wakeup and punish... but why should I fear approaching a character that I knocked down and put in a situation? Why does the defender have the ability to pose such a threat to me when I landed a hit and knocked them down?

 

[Spinky]

They never came out before, it was annoying as hell. The system is fine as it is now, it may be a lot easier to use invincible wake-ups but they can always be baited and punished.

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

It was a less easy, smaller window. Like MK9 and now in Injustice, there is almost no timing required. You can literally mash it out and it will come out with full invincibility. Before, you couldn't mash it, you had to time it in a very small window. This is fine as it favored the more skilled player. Some hard knockdowns had so much advantage that you couldn't wakeup at all. It guarantees nothing. You had to block a mixup or pressure situation and you have pushblock to get them off of you. The price you pay for being knocked down.

Sure, you can bait a wakeup and punish... but why should I fear approaching a character that I knocked down and put in a situation? Why does the defender have the ability to pose such a threat to me when I landed a hit and knocked them down?

^^^ 100% THIS

 

[killa_solid]

I would be ok with the new wake up system if at least only moves that were unsafe on block were wake ups. As is, there is almost no reason not to do certain wake ups.

 

[DJ L Toro]

AU_IM_DIGIMON, this is the one thing we disagree on most in terms of fighting games (though i agree that a higher skill requirement for wakeups is good). I dont think that if you knocked someone down that you should get extra advantage. It's like, ok, you already got a combo and knocked me down, now you're telling me that i'm at a 50% chance of standing up right back into another combo, of the 50 remaining 50% chance of being caught in pressure and have to keep blocking, of the 25% remaining 50% chance of an attack that'll push you off (but that i cannot follow up on, so ends neutral) and 50% chance of getting up neutral. it's like ok, i have maybe a 1/4 chance of getting up... wow you did a 50% combo on me and i lost the other 50% trying to stand up. That's not fun. (that's one major reason i dont like your favorite game, tekken tag 2, cant get off the ground without dying. I literally watched like a 2 hour long tutorial for how to stand up, and even then it's not guaranteed. Should have been titled "how to give yourself a slight chance to stand up") if knocking someone down once and then exploiting a 75+% advantage is "skill" then i'd rather not.
What i like about wakeups as an idea is that they provide a better meta-game for standing up and dont make it as simple as "oh you got knocked down? lol get fucked." they make it more of a 33/33/33/1 game. 33 stand up neutral, 33 get punished, 33 hit for advantage, 1 because there's always a randomness factor. This is added to the wakeup/techroll/standup game that makes standing up more interesting and generally more skillful because it's not just get fucked or stand up but also positioning, offense vs defense, and adds to the footsie game.

 

[Axel_Redd]

They were broken before and were fixed. You literally couldn't wake up vs less than 8 frame normals before but the computer could. Getting a free 50/50 mixup for every knock down is scrubby. Glad they fixed it.

so now Deathstroke loses his 50/50 crossups on knockdowns after 123??

 

[Prinz]

Personally, I enjoy more the reset of the match when the opponent gets knocked down after a juggle and the aggressor has to stop or bait wake-ups not to get blown up. I don't like Marvel for this reason, or SF4. Every time I watch those games I see the knocked down player reset by a 50/50 or otg for another chunk of life (sometimes the entire lifebar in Marvel) which doesn't look good at all. What is cool in IGAU is that there is only one fully invincible wake-up attack per char, unlike MK9. Backdash is also a good option. It's not hard to know all chars' invincible wake-up and have a strategy that covers both the wake-up and the backdash.
In short: do your homework and play the game as it is.

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

A 100% combo in marvel is only 33% of your team's health. Thats a TEAM game.
Also, tech rolls in that game are as simple as holding a direction. You also have the option to call an assist while still invulnerable. Resets in that game have to be very very elaborate because real players dont have to block, they know how to get the fuck out of there and reverse the pressure.

Please stop with the marvel comparisons... There are none.

 

[Rathalos]

I absolutely hate the scrubby MK9 wakeup system and now it's back in Injustice... It really makes me not want to play anymore.

inb4 some scrubby KF slide comment #MPT

Ya, this one change really kills some of my enjoyment of the game.

It probably wouldn't be so bad if it was this way from the start, but getting to play a version of Injustice with a non shit wakeup system and then having to go back to MK9 style, it's just the worst.

I doubt they will ever reconsider since most MK players love there cheesy invincible wakeups.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

Ill just throw this out there:

Black Adam has one wakeup, and it happens to be the games best.

 

[Konqrr]

Ill just throw this out there:

Black Adam has one wakeup, and it happens to be the games best.

Thank God I get a free jump combo if I bait it... I hate that wakeup though.