Wake up attacks in injustice too easy = good or not?

[scorpion990]

I think his point is that with some characters in the game, this is not possible because their wake up move is both safe and invincible/leave at advantage especially if they use meter. I think if you burn meter you should gain the invincibility frames. Meterless however, I think you should either have to time it right and if mistimed are unsafe especially if the wake up attack was blocked. I actually prefer the old super turbo wake up system where the reversal window was always random and you had to take a huge risk in doing a reversal.

I think the wake up situation is made worse by the movement system in the game and the advantage zoners have in this game in general. It feels like if you get a knockdown with a rushdown character that the zoner always gets a chance at resetting his position. Even when you get the hard knockdown, an easy reversal system allows the zoner to reset himself into perfect position. And because walk speed is so slow and the inability to block after dash, you eat a lot of chip just getting yourself into a good position again. In essence you get punished for knockdown if you are a rushdown character. If i knock you down, I shouldn't be punished by allowing you to reset yourself into a position that rewards you and punishes me.

Which wakeup moves are you talking about specifically? I don't have a super deep understanding of the game, but from my lab sessions, I found that wakeups generally fall into one of three categories: punishable on block, punishable on neutral j3, or punishable on cross up jump into a fast combo. I haven't really run into a wakeup move that's totally safe. At that, the moves that tend to hit my neutral j3 tend to be unsafe ones that can't be continued with a combo (ie. Deathstroke's sword flip) If I guess wrong, like you said, a zoner will take a bit of damage from me and reset his position. If I guess right, though, I'll take 40% from the opponent. I think that's a pretty fair deal. Especially since the aggressor has even more options: meaty specials, check with a 50:50, throw, etc.

It's going to be hard to convince me that Batman needs to be better at rushdown against any of the cast. He can hold his own with all of the zoning and wakeup attacks that you throw at him. Also, I don't agree that reversal timing should be random. I don't really like the idea of randomness in fighting games. The general rule of thumb is: if you know exactly what your opponent is going to do, and your execution is perfect, you should be able to counter them. Your idea breaks this principle. I don't think you should be penalized in a fighting game because of a random number generator.

EDIT: I do admit that this game relies too heavily on zoning. I don't like it. Nor do I like the extreme opposite of that (scorpion, whose hellfire forces you to jump forward constantly and get punished) On that note, I don't think that making wakeup attacks more randomized is the solution here.

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

Easy or not, by waking up everytime on knockdown you'll still get blown the fuck up

 

[Enigma642]

I like the wakeup system the way it is now. Getting a free 50/50 after every knockdown seems like a scrubbier way to win than waking up with an invincible attack (which can be defended/baited).

 

[MetalPete]

Who gives a damn if the window is easier or not? The point is that none of the wake ups are invincible. Play the computer on harder difficulties and you'll find that out real fast. It doesn't matter if it's an online or offline match, your "invincible" cat-dashes and frosty-slides can and will get beat by any number simple punches or kicks.

And can we all stop throwing the word "scrub" and other stupid fighting game lingo into every single post? You can stop trying to fit in now, we're all friends here.