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Injustice Balance Suggestions

NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
A F0xy Grampa said:
Lol you guys think supermans zoning is a problem? Back dash it if you hate it that much.
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It isn't the "zoning"... its the fact that he basically is a tool of his stage.

I tend to agree with you the more I play against him.... but anytime there are respawing type things to throw.... he becomes one of the best in the game at keepaway... as well as having his still good spacing options.
 
Sao87

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
Ive said this before but i would just like to see at least one person acknowledge this post good or bad.

Interactables: (while having them thrown at you) f or b3 mb gives you armor to absorb it and you take no damage from the interactable.
(using interactable) f or b3 mb gives you armor and guarantees the damage just not the knock down.

This would force players to do something they should be doing already but need reo or tom brady to release a video about first. And thats mb f3 to full combo punish someone for using interactables. But not only that, it rewards good behavior. You get to punish your olponent and not take the interactable damage "if" they didnt mb the interactable. The user is rewarded with armor obviously and guaranteed damage if they spend meter. They just arent guaranteed safety from a full combo punish if the opponent is close enough.

Id also like to see damage on interactables "normalized" its dumb that superman can trait up and get 27% in atlantis. But get 22% tops in other stages. He shouldnt get rewarded with extra damage period for something that is guaranteed in most cases so why does his trait work like that?

Other stages like the rooftop are going to guarantee the demise of this game competitively if they remain the same at evo. I get that nrs wanted to have stages reward certain archtypes but this shit almost guarantees a win against certain members of the cast. Fix respawn rastes, damage, options or something.

Acrobats. Whatttt the fuck. Are they just too good to be rewarded anything useful? Give them better interactable options, perhaps evasive mixups that allow air normals or something.

Scorpion. On top of his tele being stupid for obvious reasons stated he removes interactables and other mechanics (batmans robats flr example) completely. This shit worked in mk9 where your defense was hold down + block and fuzzy guard overheads but it does nkt translate well into motion blocking. Slow that shit down! He will make your game look like shit at evo!

I love this game. Mk9 was a turd compared to it. I want to see it succeed!
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
shaowebb said:
I'd like to know if any of the top tier characters with good runaway would be as good without stage interactibles. I know those interactibles aren't why these characters are good and we know I dont like the damage these things do, but honestly so many of the interactibles knock you down and allow for zoners to stay out and add a TON of damage that otherwise wouldn't be possible to most zoning styles of play. I like tools that augment combo length or allow me to move around, but the ones that stop folks dead and do insane damage like tv's, air tanks, bombs, chandeliers, freeze pipes, and the hose in the corner of Atlantis dont enhance any aspect of your character...they simply replace it. Why not camp in a spot that gives you the equivalent of a hadouken worth as much as a combo on its own?

I'm seriously wondering how long it will be before some one blows up at a tourney on someone who just stays out with a zoner and using interactibles to stack on damage. I'm seeing more and more of this done in matches and its not a good thing. I'm honestly expecting interactibles to either get nerfed or banned at this rate because its starting to get Smash Bros level with how much they tip the balance of a match.
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Zoners take advantage of the system mechanics the most in general. Without interactables, some zoners are a lot worse off. Not to mention, some rushdown characters need the interactables as a means to get closer.

I keep saying this...zoning is good in this game not because of what the zoners actually have. It is because the system benefits them in a ton of aspects. The offense in this game can be fucking absurd at points. To the point where it almost needs no help.

Sao87 KF and Scorpion are acrobats.
 
Sao87

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
THTB said:
Zoners take advantage of the system mechanics the most in general. Without interactables, some zoners are a lot worse off. Not to mention, some rushdown characters need the interactables as a means to get closer.

I keep saying this...zoning is good in this game not because of what the zoners actually have. It is because the system benefits them in a ton of aspects. The offense in this game can be fucking absurd at points. To the point where it almost needs no help.

Sao87 KF and Scorpion are acrobats.
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Are they zoners? Do they lack options to stop zoning? Are they too good to be able to use interactables?
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
THTB said:
Zoners take advantage of the system mechanics the most in general. Without interactables, some zoners are a lot worse off. Not to mention, some rushdown characters need the interactables as a means to get closer.

I keep saying this...zoning is good in this game not because of what the zoners actually have. It is because the system benefits them in a ton of aspects. The offense in this game can be fucking absurd at points. To the point where it almost needs no help.

Sao87 KF and Scorpion are acrobats.
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You can't say anyone needs interactables until you've played without them
 
Sao87

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
THTB said:
Do you really want Killer Frost to have better interactables?
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Im asking why acrobats suck so bad when it comes to interactable use? As a designer wouldnt you want all 3 archtypes to be perceived as equal even though different?

My answer is yes i would like for kf, scorpion, flash, raven, etc to feel like they have options when they hit the interact button. If a character is too strong i would hope that they would be fixed through other means and not categorized as a character that is not allowed to use a big part of the game.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Sao87 said:
Im asking why acrobats suck so bad when it comes to interactable use? As a designer wouldnt you want all 3 archtypes to be perceived as equal even though different?

My answer is yes i would like for kf, scorpion, flash, raven, etc to feel like they have options when they hit the interact button. If a character is too strong i would hope that they would be fixed through other means and not categorized as a character that is not allowed to use a big part of the game.
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In all seriousness, the ability to use aerial normals in the jumping interactables would be cool.
 
Sao87

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
THTB said:
Broken.
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Is it? Lol. Whats different about this and a gadget user going d1 xx interact (explosion) and then comboing you off that guaranteed knock up? All this does is scare people into not pressing buttons when you interact towards them or provide a mixup potentially. Good players will adapt and block properly.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
STB CharlieMurphy said:
That is not the point... but a fact non the less.

She is stil good without them and abuses aspects of the game no one else can dream of doing. Damage isn't everything.
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Low damage is a pretty significant weakness, however. Hell, even Cyborg needs them because of low opportunities for damage midscreen.

And, as said before, zoning is strong because of everything the system does to cater to them, not because of how powerful their zoning actually is.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Sao87 said:
Is it? Lol. Whats different about this and a gadget user going d1 xx interact (explosion) and then comboing you off that guaranteed knock up? All this does is scare people into not pressing buttons when you interact towards them or provide a mixup potentially. Good players will adapt and block properly.
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Trolled/10 (Or did I get trolled/10...?)
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
THTB said:
Low damage is a pretty significant weakness, however. Hell, even Cyborg needs them because of low opportunities for damage midscreen.

And, as said before, zoning is strong because of everything the system does to cater to them, not because of how powerful their zoning actually is.
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I agree with this a ton.

To me the overall problem is that .... what it does for some characters like Cyborg and Hawkgirl (bring them to a very good level).... it pushes others over the top. Does Green Lantern really need to be a power character? Does Black Adam?

I can't answer those questions.... but I know for sure that your statement is true for them.
 
RapZiLLa54

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
How come NO ONE punishes Supermans f23 Ice breathe with neutral jump 2 full combo? I dont get how he constantly gets away with looping this on people......
 
Sao87

Sao87

@thedigitaldojo
RapZiLLa54 said:
How come NO ONE punishes Supermans f23 Ice breathe with neutral jump 2 full combo? I dont get how he constantly gets away with looping this on people......
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Because some times he stands there and whiff punishes. Sometimes he jumps straight up air dashs and then starts pressure. Some times he back dashes and then reacts accordingly.

I do agree though. Your answer is a solid one to the mindless loops. He just has a lot of answers to answers. I think at the end of the day supermans f2 will be around 11 frames start up. When they "normalize" him. It will still be godlike but at least shut some people up about him.
 
RapZiLLa54

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
Sao87 said:
Because some times he stands there and whiff punishes. Sometimes he jumps straight up air dashs and then starts pressure. Some times he back dashes and then reacts accordingly.

I do agree though. Your answer is a solid one to the mindless loops. He just has a lot of answers to answers. I think at the end of the day supermans f2 will be around 11 frames start up. When they "normalize" him. It will still be godlike but at least shut some people up about him.
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Neutral Jump 2 is pretty much an answer to all of those follows ups though except for a backdash in which now we play the neutral game again. So you win 3/4 times and the 1/4 time isn't really a loss either.
 
scorpion990

scorpion990

Noob
If Scorpion's hellfire remains unblockable, it'll be the end of Injustice.

As a fighter, if you're doing nothing, you're already at a disadvantage: you're not getting your opponent's health down, and you're opening yourself up for mix-ups/projectiles. That is enough punishment. You should NOT be penalized with fear of unblockables, too. Against Scorpion, you either need to jump around like an idiot (and eat AA teleports to full combos) or do nothing and eat hellfires.

The whole point of Injustice is that it's NOT MK9. I thought NRS wanted to explore new fighting game mechanics without being tied down to the MK formula. With Scorpion's arrival, that formula is back. It's not about footsies or risk-management. It's about jumping around like an idiot and hoping that a move connects eventually.

Other than that, I think that Grundy needs to be toned down a bit. Maybe I don't know the matchup (Aquaman vs. Grundy) well enough, but whenever I fight him, I'm guaranteed to lose. He can zone as well as I can, his close-up game is littered with unblockables and armored specials, and he can jump faster than I can. There's really not much I can do...
 
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