Match-up Discussion Lex Luthor Matchup Discussion

[LizardLard]

LizardLard that mu chart is pretty solid man, my opinion on a few things would be GL lex wins 6-4, Raven is 5-5(maybe another 6-4 Lex), Nightwing i agree is easy 4-6 but in staff stance, Doomsday I think is 4-6.

Thanks. Awesome Lex play btw. It's awesome seeing you posting in here.

GL is kind of a strange matchup. I play a great GL on a regular basis, and I would say that Lex can definitely hold his own in this matchup by turtling and picking his fights. GL is just kind of a weird character- not quite a zoner, definitely not rushdown, really footsies heavy, good punishes, great anti-airs. You just need to wait for your opportunities against him and stay out of range of his b1/block low. His overhead is blockable on reaction. Any character that you can find time to get up a a probe against is not abysmal IMO. That being said, he is still definitely a possible 6-4. Machine Gun can be a bitch for Lex. GL's b1 to overhead can be interrupted by CC, or d1 x MB Gravity Pull for full combo. afrozilla86

Nightwing in staff stance can outzone Lex horribly. Lex's slow, long dash makes it so hard to get in, and then once he is in this matchup doesnt look any better. I think Lex should win this one just because of his extreme height advantage. Makes Dick look like a 5 year old.

I feel that Raven tears up Lex as long as she keeps past mid-screen. I will look more into this one.

Why 4-6 Doomsday? He's never been much of a problem for me.

 

[LizardLard]

How the hell is batman 5-5? Someone please enlighten me.

What does batman have that is so good against Lex? The only problem in this matchup is that Lex is a walking crossup. Other than that, I find it pretty easy to play batman defensively.

 

[MashBot]

ok i gotta ask how do yall put up with deathstroke? thats like a 1-9 match. rite?

 

[LizardLard]

ok i gotta ask how do yall put up with deathstroke? thats like a 1-9 match. rite?

Nah good ol' Strokies practically even. I'll elaborate tonight if I get a chance.

Maybe online it's kind of in his favor.

 

[cR WoundCowboy]

I'll just put this out here: Sinestro DESTROYS Lex. Lex has a big hitbox, slow specials, and one hit of armor on his trait. It is everything that Sinestro could ask for in a MU.

 

[(AGE)NycFab]

Thanks. Awesome Lex play btw. It's awesome seeing you posting in here.

GL is kind of a strange matchup. I play a great GL on a regular basis, and I would say that Lex can definitely hold his own in this matchup by turtling and picking his fights. GL is just kind of a weird character- not quite a zoner, definitely not rushdown, really footsies heavy, good punishes, great anti-airs. You just need to wait for your opportunities against him and stay out of range of his b1/block low. His overhead is blockable on reaction. Any character that you can find time to get up a a probe against is not abysmal IMO. That being said, he is still definitely a possible 6-4. Machine Gun can be a bitch for Lex. GL's b1 to overhead can be interrupted by CC, or d1 x MB Gravity Pull for full combo. afrozilla86

Nightwing in staff stance can outzone Lex horribly. Lex's slow, long dash makes it so hard to get in, and then once he is in this matchup doesnt look any better. I think Lex should win this one just because of his extreme height advantage. Makes Dick look like a 5 year old.

I feel that Raven tears up Lex as long as she keeps past mid-screen. I will look more into this one.

Why 4-6 Doomsday? He's never been much of a problem for me.

Yeah Doomsday is rough because of his rushdown and meter gain. Also the fact that lex can't really jump over ex shoulder tackles and has such a big hitbox makes it rough to really do anything. You don't really have time to set up anything or even armor trait dash out because he can punish it will tackle if hes close enough. I fight CD senior a lot and his rushdown on top of the meter gain the character has to pressure you with ex tackles makes it really tough. You tend to have to take risk that might not even be worth it in the end. Its a do able match up for sure though, but lex's hitbox/poor jump is what really makes the match tough. You have any ideas on how to make the match up better?

 

[(AGE)NycFab]

I'll just put this out here: Sinestro DESTROYS Lex. Lex has a big hitbox, slow specials, and one hit of armor on his trait. It is everything that Sinestro could ask for in a MU.

Whats up man! good shit at UFGT I still don't think its that bad as long as Lex can fight close to mid range which isn't hard to keep imo with patience. I think its 6-4 Sinestro though.

 

[LizardLard]

LizardLard can you explain the bane match up to me? I'm getting my ass plowed and armored like no other.

Bane is really weird to fight. I have been playing 2 great banes this week, and at first they absolutely bodied me. Like I have NEVER been beaten as bad as they beat me. You need to always be aware of his venom level. If he is on level 1 or 2 and he uses his charge, you can trait dash cancel right into him and get a free combo or use an armored b3. If a probe/mine hits him during the charge, then it uses the moves armor which lets you interrupt the charge. Do that a few times, and they will stop dashing which will let you control the pace more. Getting up after bane knocks you down can be hard. That is something I am still working on. If Bane goes to level 3, RUN. Do NOT get knocked down, play entirely defensively, do NOT try to start any sort of offense, and just cheese it out. Once level 3 runs out, armor up and go all out.

It helps a ton to know the properties of his venom. Check out this thread for a reference- http://testyourmight.com/threads/more-venom-venom-properties-and-strategy.31040/

 

[LizardLard]

Whats up man! good shit at UFGT I still don't think its that bad as long as Lex can fight close to mid range which isn't hard to keep imo with patience. I think its 6-4 Sinestro though.

WoundCowboy

This. I don't know why I said that was 5-5... It is definitely an uphill battle for Lex. MAYBE it was even week 1, but now with all of Sinestro's buffs/fixes and all of his new tech, he is terrifying. I co-mained Sinestro for awhile and one thing about this matchup that I found to really help Sinestro is Lex's dash. It's really easy to chain it or catch it with a b1 for full combo. I would say this is atleast a 4-6 for Lex. You Sinestro mains need to slow down with the tech Thank god Lex doesnt have any links like Sinestro's b13, b3. That shit is such a pain to get down.

EDIT: I messed up my MU numbers.

 

[LizardLard]

Yeah Doomsday is rough because of his rushdown and meter gain. Also the fact that lex can't really jump over ex shoulder tackles and has such a big hitbox makes it rough to really do anything. You don't really have time to set up anything or even armor trait dash out because he can punish it will tackle if hes close enough. I fight CD senior a lot and his rushdown on top of the meter gain the character has to pressure you with ex tackles makes it really tough. You tend to have to take risk that might not even be worth it in the end. Its a do able match up for sure though, but lex's hitbox/poor jump is what really makes the match tough. You have any ideas on how to make the match up better?

Those are some really good points... I will need to look more into this one. I'll come up with some stuff and post it tonight.

 

[John smith]

I feel like there's no way to be nightwing as lex. He outzones lex horribly and his fast multi-hitting pokes just shred through lex's armor. Not to mention once nightwing gets in really close against lex his d1's make pressing a button impossible. Seems like all I can do is pushblock. Any advice on this matchup?

 

[CalDW19940]

LizardLard can you explain the bane match up to me? I'm getting my ass plowed and armored like no other.

Lex can just put a mine at his feet and there really isn't much Bane can do about it. Charging is blatantly obvious so once Lex blocks it the mine catches him during the recovery and Lex gets a full combo punish from it, if Lex were any further back from the mine then yeah Bane would charge through it but on block when he's next to it he will be left in unsafe frames until the mine catchets him. If Bane tries to wait out the mine it gives Lex ample time to throw out projectiles/orbs and more or less keep annoying Bane until he tries to approach again.

Lots of Banes other options like level 3 Venom armored moves or grabs can easily be dodged by jumping and punishing with Lex's axe of doom. Lex's trait also renders a lot of Banes approach options even without the mine utterly pointless :V

 

[LizardLard]

I just made some changes to my MU list. Sadly, all changes were negative.

Changes made to:
Superman
Harley Quinn
Doomsday
Aquaman

 

[Reverse Osmosis]

He's seems like a combination of mvc3 deadpool and mk9 Stryker.


Which is horrible for most characters fighting him.

MvC just annoys me ;~;

 

[BDMao88]

From LizardLard sugguestion, here is my Lex playing RelaxedState's cyborg in a local tourney this past weekend.
http://www.twitch.tv/totfc1/b/411264232
6:24:22

 

[whedgehead]

LizardLard what do you think about the Black Adam match-up? I don't see it on your chart (unless I'm just blind haha). Personally I'm not too keen on it, ex lightning destroys trait and generally I find his zoning hard to get around. However, I think trait can be a good way to punish a divekick (unless he also has trait) and so can neutral jump 3 I believe. Probes are pretty good in this match-up for the same reasons. He doesn't have the greatest wake up options which is good for Lex, however once he makes a single correct read he puts up stupid damage. I still think it's a losing match-up in the end.

 

[LizardLard]

LizardLard what do you think about the Black Adam match-up? I don't see it on your chart (unless I'm just blind haha). Personally I'm not too keen on it, ex lightning destroys trait and generally I find his zoning hard to get around. However, I think trait can be a good way to punish a divekick (unless he also has trait) and so can neutral jump 3 I believe. Probes are pretty good in this match-up for the same reasons. He doesn't have the greatest wake up options which is good for Lex, however once he makes a single correct read he puts up stupid damage. I still think it's a losing match-up in the end.

Haha wow youre right I dont have a black adam mu number. Hes a pretty bad matchup for lex. You never want to get caught full screen against BA. Footsies is the key to this matchup. You need constant armor and control. I will update my original post. 4-6

 

[CalDW19940]

Black Adam isn't THAT bad an MU, a lot of his air game gets beat out by corp charging on reaction but his mobility still makes him a pain to try and punish/catch effectively and some wonky hitboxes can make comboing him and anti airing him awkward...not as bad as some other MU's tho. I agree with lizard on it being about 4-6 ish

 

[afrozilla86]

Thanks since then I fought a fairly decent lex, but he didn't know of green lantern's reset techs, or anything about my zoning as well so I was able to easily win 3 in a row, and cleared his health bar in 1 match starting at 3.2meter, and did a 100% from the added reset finishes. Trait gatlin will probably be my answer for lex in the future, as well as controlling his wakeup and abusing his style of zoning. Thanks for the inputs none the less LizardLard, and no I am not going to use one experience with an uninformed player and say something stupid like 8-2 g.l on a lex forum. Do think it could be 6-4 g.l or 5-5even on a good lex though. Hopefully I find a better lex on ps3 soon.

 

[Wrenchfarm]

How are you guys finding the Scorpion MU? Got to play against a few today, one in particular was damn good. Scary to see day 2 40% combos!

For all the doom and gloom on the Sinestro and DS boards though, I don't think it's AS terrible a match for Lex. Probes and Armour give you a nice safety net on the teleport and spear. Corps Charge is yet again your best friend for punishing stuff mid screen. I had some trouble dealing with Hellfire, but I know my reactions are a little sluggish compared to some of you.

His wake up options seem limited. The ones I fought only used the tele and slide, both of which could be beat and punished by holding down. Once they got scared to wake up attack I could do my usual mix-up armoured bully game.

One thing, MB Orbital is a no go on this match. I sometimes like to use it at the end of a corner combo as a reset, Scorp can tele it on reaction all day and make you eat gobs of damage.

 

[whedgehead]

How are you guys finding the Scorpion MU? Got to play against a few today, one in particular was damn good. Scary to see day 2 40% combos!

For all the doom and gloom on the Sinestro and DS boards though, I don't think it's AS terrible a match for Lex. Probes and Armour give you a nice safety net on the teleport and spear. Corps Charge is yet again your best friend for punishing stuff mid screen. I had some trouble dealing with Hellfire, but I know my reactions are a little sluggish compared to some of you.

His wake up options seem limited. The ones I fought only used the tele and slide, both of which could be beat and punished by holding down. Once they got scared to wake up attack I could do my usual mix-up armoured bully game.

One thing, MB Orbital is a no go on this match. I sometimes like to use it at the end of a corner combo as a reset, Scorp can tele it on reaction all day and make you eat gobs of damage.

Ya I agree with this. The only thing I would add is that in this MU it can be tough to get stuff out as teleport is very fast and the start up on Lex's stuff is very slow. It's fairly easy for Scorps to punish you trying to get up a probe/orbital/mine, and even as a good punish to lance (although I rarely use it). Blocking low is absolutely your best friend in this match-up (just against Scorpion in general), and you can punish his teleport on block fairly easily with Corp Charge but you have to react semi-quick and remember he crosses you up for the input. Also MB teleport may not be punishable from Lex at all because it's +9, but have to play around with that. Generally seems like an annoying character to play against in general though.

On this note, now that Batgirl's been out for a couple weeks how do y'all find that MU? Personally I find it very frustrating. At full screen she has Batarangs and the Bola which are much faster than your stuff, and getting in can be hard because of Lex's slower dash. Also trying to get in on her can be a pain because she can jump back teleport for a punish, I'd say it makes jumping in on her pretty difficult and can negate your ji3. Her cartwheel is a half-decent anti-air as well. However, if you can bait out a tele you can get a full punish or a knockdown into mix-up with trait. I'm not entirely sure about character specifics, but I notice a lot of Batgirl's wake-up teleport which can be easily full-punished and also negated by armor. Generally armor is your friend in this match-up, if you can get it out full screen you can safely dash between her stuff (I believe) and eat through her tele if she decides to do that, givign you full punish. The final thing I'd say is Bola eats Corp Charge, so be very careful of that.

 

[Wrenchfarm]

Ya I agree with this. The only thing I would add is that in this MU it can be tough to get stuff out as teleport is very fast and the start up on Lex's stuff is very slow. It's fairly easy for Scorps to punish you trying to get up a probe/orbital/mine, and even as a good punish to lance (although I rarely use it). Blocking low is absolutely your best friend in this match-up (just against Scorpion in general), and you can punish his teleport on block fairly easily with Corp Charge but you have to react semi-quick and remember he crosses you up for the input. Also MB teleport may not be punishable from Lex at all because it's +9, but have to play around with that. Generally seems like an annoying character to play against in general though.

You can punish a blocked teleport with a full combo. 1,1,2 catches him perfectly for once and you can MB vacuum into what you like from there. I tried 2,2 a couple of times and got blown up, but it's online and my slow response time so it might still be possible. 1,1,2 definitely works and you can take him for an easy 30%+ and get your choice of mine, probe, or armour at the end.

Your absolutely right that Tele can stuff almost any attempt to probe or mine. This is one of those matches where you need a knockdown or whiff opportunity to get anything going and have to keep it up from there.

Haven't played many Batgirls sadly. Had one decent one today but he didn't seem to understand how the 50/50 vortex she does really works properly, I noticed fairly early he only ever did the low b1 after hitting with a 1,1,1 reset.

 

[rev0lver]

On this note, now that Batgirl's been out for a couple weeks how do y'all find that MU? Personally I find it very frustrating. At full screen she has Batarangs and the Bola which are much faster than your stuff, and getting in can be hard because of Lex's slower dash. Also trying to get in on her can be a pain because she can jump back teleport for a punish, I'd say it makes jumping in on her pretty difficult and can negate your ji3. Her cartwheel is a half-decent anti-air as well. However, if you can bait out a tele you can get a full punish or a knockdown into mix-up with trait. I'm not entirely sure about character specifics, but I notice a lot of Batgirl's wake-up teleport which can be easily full-punished and also negated by armor. Generally armor is your friend in this match-up, if you can get it out full screen you can safely dash between her stuff (I believe) and eat through her tele if she decides to do that, givign you full punish. The final thing I'd say is Bola eats Corp Charge, so be very careful of that.

I played about 2 hours worth of this MU against NY_Jailhouse tonight lol. it feels pretty even actually, i'd give just a slight advantage to batgirl if anything at this point.

Basically, you have to bait her into mistakes and make smart use of your armor. You can completely avoid the teleport if you're playing it properly. Only jump on reaction to a projectile. Make your way in, play footsies and threaten with CC which allows you to set your armor up in open space or off a CC knockdown (or otherwise). If you mistakenly jump and suspect a teleport, air CC will generally nullify that and make it whiff. Otherwise, armor at every opportunity possible, which allows you to pressure or set up traps without fear of a teleport. Baits are EXCELLENT for this. If you figure out how to bait her into teleporting you get a full combo, and any combo or knockdown on this will make Batgirl really cautious with armor, mine pushblock setups, probe, etc.

Everything else just comes down to proper blocking and guessing her mixups. Her cartwheel is armor breaking, but you can bait this, block the cartwheel and armor the third hit into 22~vacuum.

 

[rev0lver]

I might as well post my current matchup chart too. I don't have enough experience vs too many characters yet but I'll post what I have. Some of this is stage dependent though... which makes it weird. Like Flash on Atlantis is probably 4-6

Aquaman - 3-7
Ares - 5-5
Bane - ?
Batgirl - 5-5
Batman - ?
Black Adam - 4-6
Catwoman - 6-4
Cyborg - 4-6/3-7
Deathstroke - 4-6
Doomsday - ?
Flash - 5-5
Green Arrow- ?
Green Lantern - 4-6
Harley Quinn - ?
Hawkgirl - 5-5
Joker - ?
Killer Frost - 3-7
Lobo - ?
Nightwing - 4-6/5-5
Raven - 4-6/3-7
Scorpion - ? (feels fucking bad though)
Shazam - ?
Sinestro - 4-6/3-7
Solomon Grundy - 6-4
Superman - 4-6/3-7
Wonder Woman - ?

I'll also say though that this would be subject to change a lot.... I can't stand using this character online where I would usually try to get MU exp. Deathstroke feels like 2-8 online and then I do fine against J360 offline haha.

 

[rev0lver]

LizardLard (AGE)NycFab
i don't see how green lantern or raven is even/advantage at all. i feel like it's easy if they're playing unsafe but if they're really playing the matchup it feels pretty bad.

Raven dominates Lex fullscreen, and with no easy way in she can activate demon stance as often as possible, which he can also do nothing about. Up close, it feels somewhat even, but she also has quick multi-hitting strings that make armor difficult. Unless they're playing like online mk9 ermacs I don't see what Lex has here.

Green Lantern doesn't feel as bad but there's a lot of the same issues. The gattling gun is an obvious problem. Meter burn dart blows up armor too. B1 is better than like anything Lex has up close.