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Match-up Discussion Harley Quinn Matchup Discussion

xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
I have struggled with Black Adam MU... I recently started looking at a few things and am happy to say that my MU against him has improved.

Dive kick BA:
Many players fall into a certain flow after his dive kick.. The key is patience and paying attention to what BA does AFTER his dive kick! Do not try to punish the kick upon it hitting your block, the key is punishing his followup. Back dash and forward jump are two major options for him.. The back dasher is the more dangerous (his backdash is one of the best) coupled with his range options.. Harley cannot hit a back dashing BA with a jump in or TS, SSxxTS is an option but risky (use at your own risk) If he is back dashing he is either going to flirt with his zoning tools, or apply pressure with another dive kick.

The forward jump after the dive kick: BA is going to try to cross you up ad punish you with ground string. If you are privy that this opponent likes following dive kick with this jump.. Get in the air and open him up with choice of A2A punish.

BA may try to jump back after missed dive kick, but it is not his best option, if initial dive kick got blocked, he can not get high or far enough away for Harley not to beat him in the air.. Follow up with A2A combo.

Range BA hurts.. His lightning bolt hits low, will take advantage of back/forward walking or dashing, and MB bolts HURT! Block his regular bolts at a distance, jumping gunshot if he has meter (from full screen away) and let him burn meter. His lightning cloud hold move from full screen, expect follow up bolts (MB if avail).
Up close he is going to use the cloud to lock you down for ground combo.

Overall BA has no real wake up moves.. So you want him on his back as much as possible and work him from there. D1 is average with minimal reach, if you can read it, counter with D3 or B2,2 into follow up.

Hope this helps.. It's done wonders for me with this bad matchup :)
 
CTZero

CTZero

Versatile Strategist
ZAV1010 said:
Thank you CTZero and xWEBSx for posting this information. It was useful to read.
Click to expand...
Thanks and no problem! I've read how Harley players are beginning to believe that she definitely has her issues. I can do a write-up for the characters that give her problems. I know Deathstoke is one of her uphill battles as well due to her forward dash being near terrible when blocking gun shots. I'll wait until the patch on May 21 to write my perspective on this match-up...
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
Vs Raven
Vs Green Lantern:

I group these two match-ups together.. Mainly because they focus on one thing to try and get the damage.. The ring/soul throw/crush. People will charge these two characters with abandon and get themselves snapped in half in the process.

They can NOT beat Harley in a firefight.. They both have rhythmic projectiles..you CAN get a shot off, and duck their damage. You want to annoy the hell out of them from as far as possible as long as possible and MAKE them come to you. This makes them a LOT less scary because what makes them scary is that throw move from (Raven- soul crush) damn near full screen, (Green Lantern-Lanterns Might) generously outside sweep (FURTHER if his trait is on)..While they are frustrated and trying to get in (Raven) prefers demon form, jump teleport (only guess is, is she appearing to my front or my back), Lantern is dashing, jumping, or his jumping Turbine Jet engine (which MB cupcakes eat alive). And guess what?!?!? They are NOT crushing!!

When you let these two control the tempo of the match, when you let these two get a life lead you really hurt yourself because they can just shell up and eat your offensive advance alive... This is what they want to do..


4% a hit off your gunshots may not seem like much damage, however if they are missing all their green missiles and blue orbs, if all of Ravens crushes are getting blocked.. That 4% per hit adds up.. Best believe they are going to start coming for you.. And that is what we want.
:)

Hope it helps!

PS: never jump in on these 2 at the beginning of the round.. A Green Lantern may try to throw out a low poke sweep (which can be interrupted during the block of the sweep into his overhead stomp w/D1) or may open with a Lanterns Might (to try to catch you sleeping/jumping). Block the low and wait for the follow up to punish. As for Lanterns Might at BEGIN that can be punished by blocking (preferably low) and TS WILL reach.

From my experience, Raven will either come at you looking for a combo out of a jump, or will back straight up to annoy you with her projectiles. If she should start the round with soul crush or her range throw.. The crush is more similar to Lantern, however.. You have a smaller punish window, the throw version she can escape the TS With down block or jump leaving you punishable (NOT WORTH THE RISK). Pay attention to Ravens hands.. As long as they have purple glow, after blocked soul crush, she cannot act.. This is your time to move/punish.

Safe starting bets against Lantern- Down block position to punish 2 famous openers (Might and low sweep- punish both)

Safe starting bets against Raven- walk backward. This will block her soul crush, her projectile, any jump ins and she may even be waking backward herself
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
The F2 overhead may NOT be totally useless.
In two match ups specifically I found a use..

Vs Catwoman
Catwoman loves her B3 from a distance.. The way she ends up next to you shows her at a low hurt box, so natural inclination due to recovery is for her to block low to block any incoming Crouch attacks upon recovery. F2 is good at catching her B3 to start a punish.

Vs Batgirl
I understand this is day 1, but Batgirl has a teleport that plops her right next to you if blocked! Full screen away this will catch projectile abuse or jumping abuse.. If blocked/baited she suffers the same fate as Catwoman and can be hit with F2 into punish.
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
FlipinFlava said:
is F2 the optimum damage punish in those situations?
Click to expand...
From what I have seen.. Catwoman seems to recover quicker than Batgirl..pretty sure Batgirl can be punished with B2,2 or TS Into follow-up. Her teleport when blocked is very unsafe.. Punish accordingly.. Catwoman is a bit more tricky.. Almost a visual frame trap.. She appears to be at a disadvantage with how she "looks" and lands but I am lead to believe otherwise due to experience. Also.. Trying to give F2 some positive light :)
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
Vs Hawkgirl

Another one of my original poor MU's due to little experience/exposure. Now that more people are giving her a go.. Harley has the answers to clip her wings..

Hawkgirl is a hit and run character.. They want to start each round in a flurry and hurt you as best as possible then fly away to the top opposite corner and check you from afar with mace throws . This will change however if you have poor defense and they draw blood with their flurries.. They will stick on you and not relent until YOU make them.

The flurries are usually started with the mace dash.. HG will look like a spear, leading with her mace.. Block this and punish it.. If left unchecked, they will try to bully you with it, eventually leading into her wing evade move. (Which has 3 options, 1 being an overhead- must be in very close to use the overhead ;) )
Hawkgirl ultimately wants to start smashing you with her mace, lows, to low, mid, overhead mix up.. This is nothing fancy, just basic defense.. While smashing you low and high with her mace, watch out or her backflip, this is wing evade and will most likely be the over head variety. If your defense is on point- a frustrated Hawkgirl will start throwing- (unsure if she has good/better than normal range on he throw, or if her wing animation makes it appear that way), watch for this!
-Notes about her mace normals:
D1 is quick, can double tap, and has decent reach..Eats up Harley's D1. Her overhead (non wing evade) is easy to block if you know what to look for (HG jumps up with mace in both hands and comes down on Harley's head).
Hawkgirl has a godlike jr. D2 uppercut with her mace (I refer to her as baby Aquaman in this regard) if she is crouched and expecting the jump in, you are getting beat 100% of the time. (So mix it up!!).

Harley can out zone Hawkgirl- her mace toss has poor start up (she whirls it over her head) and a gun shot hits her out of it, can be ducked , be careful, Hawkgirl can MB her mace toss and she is coming in right behind it.(1,2 combo mace and body smash). Don't sleep on the MB version.

Hawkgirl IN THE AIR!!!!

Do not freak out!!! She has a dive kick, kind of wonky if you ask me.. If she is hovering above you.. Is she at your front or back? if she is at your front, normal high block, if she is favoring the rear...the divekick is coming in as a cross up, block accordingly and B2,2- follow up. (Remember- she is all about being high, she does not like crouching- so if she is crouching, expect the D1 or D2- depending on what you are doing). Ways that Hawkgirl will attempt to get in divekick range? Normal fly or that Hawkgirl spear special with mace leading (yes she can do it in the air as well) both truly unacceptable to use to get in on Harley due to us having Hawkgirls bane- CUPCAKE BOMBS!! Regular flavor or extra strength.. These eat Hawkgirl up alive and takes away her superior air mobility. Save Meter for Cupcakes and MB B3 punish!!! Again, be wary of mace toss from mid-ish range from the air, MB mace toss has her following up directly behind.
Finally on Hawkgirl in the air- if she is full screen in the air- the MB cupcakes WILL hit her.. The only time it is a waste, is if she is full screen, FULL maximum height, hugging that upper corner, save it and advance slowly.. This is a tactic to try and lull you in for some damage, look for this tactic if she has meter- easily block able mace tosses from the air will soon then ino MB or divekicks and a loss to your health bar. Approach slowly... Have your cupcakes on standby and pop a few upward gunshots at her, SHE CANNOT BLOCK WHILE AIRBORNE!!! Get into ideal cupcake range and let em rip!

Don't panic on her offensive flurries and while she is in the air!!!if you have to see a few of her moves in action without risking a loss, take her into training and play with her, see what her specials do, see her capabilities.. Harley has the answer for he air mobility and can beat her on the ground.

Hope this helps :)
 
xWEBSx

xWEBSx

Too old for this Shit
Vs Joker

By some popular demand.. The very strange MU and mixed bag of Harley's Mistah J!!!

Where do I begin.. Joker appears to be a one dimensional character with a powerful yet limited projectile.. Completely Avoidable high/low projectile.. No apparent terrific rush down capabilities , and for some reason.. A godlike J3... Treat him like a one dimensional character and get lit up with a gas can and single match.. "Doopy doopy doooo" indeed.

Passive Joker:
Do not try to out zone Joker straight out.. If he is non aggressive and looking to range duel, you will lose. He can pick his shots, and on the trade, he wins, his gun is fast enough to knock you out of Pop Pop, Cupcakes and pistols... Where you CAN GET THE UPPER HAND is if you happen to catch him ducking or catch his pistol start up.. you can continue to walk gunshots in on him non stop(Harley becomes a runaway train and is VERY HARD to punish painfully) til you get at your comfortable range.. He has nothing really to counter this but ducking, or if you get to close, a well timed JI or NJ3 (between shots) A non pressure way is the walk/dash in duck ,then jump canister method famous to our Deathstroke/Sinestro MU's. patience is key on the passive Joker, he has no problem sitting in his corner, timing/holding his gunshot, tossing a canister or 5, and then setting up teeth traps to dare you to come in, and making you work to do so. What to do once you get in....

Aggressive Joker:

Joker wants to keep you out, he thrives on it.. He has a few tools to defend himself once you are in or he is on the move.. Know what you are looking for.. A good joker if close is going for momentum.. He is looking to set up his teeth to get you jumping back or ducking to block and will be looking to punish with his JI/NJ3. He is going to scare you with his JI3, DO NOT LET HIM HAVE HIS WAY... Backdash, and cupcakes, let him feel a few and make him think twice about his J3... Once Joker is in the air.. His J3 wins, do not attempt an A2A, either wait for it and block (then the follow up of teeth set up or his low kick, front flip flop (blocked low then high) or his low kick followed by his over head crowbar (only damaging if he has you trained to block low and meter to burn on his crowbar.. Again blocked low, then high) ) or stuff him outright with cupcakes (preferable), up gunshot ( in a pinch), RESIST THE URGE TO AIR TO AIR HIM.. That is his game in neutral air space.. The only way you beat his J3 is if your jump attack catches his jump attempt and stuffs him prior to seeing the crowbar (in the air), if you see the crowbar in the air, he has won the air, keep your feet planted and look at positioning... Am I safe to hit him with cupcake or gunshot.? Or do I need a backdash or two? Close aggressive Joker can be tricky, his J2 & 3 both cross up well, look at his character and not his crowbar in this instance, if he appears to jumping above you- he is going for the cross over.. His J 3 has too much range to be utilizing it that close.. If he is J3 happy, then he starts switching to J2, he may be fishing for a cross up as well. If joker is successful on his cross up, prepare for teeth traps.. But as Harley, our true strength is not letting him get his way.

-Note: Aggressive Joker can turn to Passive joker at any time.. And vice versa... Be flexible and know which you are dealing with!

We want To fight Joker just outside his twirling sweep range.. This close he cannot resist doing that sweep and that is one time to strike.. And his standing crowbars are not at optimal range and punishable as well..He will bait out your low attack with a low knife stab, you match him low for low, his sweep is coming.. NJ the read and punish. Once you get a hold of Joker it is important to stick on him, his wake up options are meh..(beware the overhead crowbar) punish his missed crowbars and jumping crowbars (FROM THE GROUND), punish that sweep, know what you are looking for and do NOT let Joker have the momentum.

Show Mistah J we had enough of his shit!

Hope this helps :)
 
M

Mood4food77

Noob
so after playing more against aquaman, i don't think it's as bad as it seems but the match-up is ass backwards

you actually outzone him pretty easily due to his stuff being so negative on block
you can't rush him down cause of his trident, stuffs your movement

why is it ass backwards? because harley is the zoner and aquaman in the rushdown character in the match-up, harley has nothing to really stop aquaman from rushing you down and his trait (it's still a really stupid trait) really hurts your damage output, his j3 is a giant fuck you to harley

it's probably still 7-3 but closer to the 6-4 side than the 8-2 side
 
Burgesssssss

Burgesssssss

Noob
Harley can't outzone him. He can duck gunshots after his ground spike thing, and a blocked Oopsie Daisy gets punished by the ground spike. She needs to get on him, bait and punish.
 
Fergus

Fergus

Like Father, Like Daughter
And Harley's damage output vs him is cut pretty short because of the nature of her combos taking a while to launch and Aqua being able to just trait before the TS~1 hits. Harley needs to get her combos going on him via b+3, j3 or A2A combos.
 
D

DiZzyPhyZiks

Mortal
Hmm, this is kinda interesting.. Its pretty hard to d1 scoop (f1 works too) if you block cartwheel crouching. If you notice aquaman punishing TS1 you can try TS2 for a double low

F1 scoop works from crouching though. D1 he has to stand to re input D


*edit*
i just learned that you can d1-TS and d1-scoop from an already crouching state if you diagonal df1 instead of straight down 1. Like say you want to d1 poke, then d1-TS, you will get d1-up shot. This is a bit easier than being crouched, then stand and d1.
So akward, im used to games reading down back even if ive been holding down for a couple sec.
 
nightE89

nightE89

Cupcakes!!!
Hey guys I don't know if this was talked about but any tips about Doomsday, like I didn't have a problem with him before, but now he's starting to become a pain in my ass lol like everytime I see him now I just facepalm.

I got down his earthshake move is an high, low mixup and for his out of screen move just SS out the way but is there anything else. Thanks again as always.
 
Ramon

Ramon

Heavenly Harley
practice Push blocking his MB Tackles. You can push block it on reaction when he MB it and you even out the playing field with it.
 
Some Dude

Some Dude

Noob
I'm liking the inside of Wayne Manor against Aquaman lately. It seems like a pretty legit stage for gadget characters, and you can quickly combo into a launch to (kinda) deal with his trait if you're near the middle background bounce interactable.
 
Some Dude

Some Dude

Noob
Sorry for the DP. Editing posts is screwed up right now or something.

nightE89 said:
Hey guys I don't know if this was talked about but any tips about Doomsday, like I didn't have a problem with him before, but now he's starting to become a pain in my ass lol like everytime I see him now I just facepalm.

I got down his earthshake move is an high, low mixup and for his out of screen move just SS out the way but is there anything else. Thanks again as always.
Click to expand...
Rush him down. His defense doesn't seem that great. 1 2 combos punish his non-MB charge. D3 antiairs body splash. Concentrate on blocking the high part of his high/low thing since the low only does like 2% damage or something really low.
 
ShinSenkai

ShinSenkai

Noob
Man, I've been sent to the lab to investigate the ins and outs of the Killer Frost MU. I got sent to loser's and sent to hell by the same KF player resulting in me coming 3rd in the recent London InJustice tournament. With that said I had never played a KF before and was unaware of what she was capable of or why people considered her so high. Now I know lol. She has possibly the best 50/50 game and resets I've seen. It was too little too late but the main thing I took away from my matches was that baiting slide and punishing with NJ2 was key. What do you guys think?
 
nightE89

nightE89

Cupcakes!!!
Haven't fought that many KF before, but only thing that I know of is that her slide on block isn't punishable at all. but other than that nuthing.
 
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