Whats the point of 3/4 of the "wake up attacks" and "AAs" in the game?

[jaym7018]

Bison has s.HK, it's a good anti-air.

Not really only for far jumps. Its one of the worst AA normals in the game.

 

[Juggs]

Not really only for far jumps. Its one of the worst AA normals in the game.

Step up your spacing game, it's a good AA at the right distance.

 

[K7L33THA]

Lol how in the blue hell do you know who is and isnt a capcom player. Most novices of any game jump like crazy.

I bet you're one of "them".

 

[Sami]

D2 isn't just an anti-air. Unlike in MK where (mostly) uppercuts couldn't be comboed off, D2 also allows you to extend combos. Yes, you take a damage hit (first D2 has high damage scaling, on Raven at least) but sometimes reduced damage is better than no damage. Land a random air-2-air hit and are panicking? D2 for a breather and then combo.

 

[Doombawkz]

Your wake-up attacks exist solely to feed us, the Bane players. We feast upon your inability, and it is delicious...

 

[cyke_out]

Took me a week to figure out superman grundy and aquaman have the best anti air d2s if that. I thought it was common practice to find your characters best AA options when playing i fighting game. I guess t took a long time for someone in the MK to press d1 while their opponent was in the air and for that i cant help but SMH.

A d1 anti-air is like using a crouching jab in SF as an anti-air. it's counter intuitive. Of course MK players found using dedicated specials or d2, just like SF players found out easily that crouching fierce and SRK's worked as anti-airs.

Also SF has trip guard which allows them to instantly block after performing an empty jump, so the recovery of a jump is less than injustice. In injustice, characters without a good dedicated anti-air can backdash to avoid the jump in, and punish the opponent as he recovers from the jump.

Stop trying to compare different games, simply because they have mechanics that look similar on the surface, the differences in the air game means each game has to be played differently and with a different mind-set.

Another aspect is that the absence of unversal mechanics, makes each character more unique in their approach to the game and how they handle. If you try to use X to anti-air the same that Y does, of course it's not going to work. but instead of complaining about X, find out what does work.

 

[REDRUM]

I love how a weak jump in kick will destroy a lot of wake ups and here's a funnier one, Wakeup SUPERS get beat out a lot too

 

[Tom Brady]

RapZiLLa54

wake up attacks considered projectile type attacks have zero invincibility, other specials have invincibility only on start up, others have it until the point of impact.

For the ones with invincibility until the point of impact, this only applies to the first frame of impact. If your invincible wake up attack does not make contact on the first impact frame, the move loses its invincibility and can be beat out by or trade with your opponents attack. Certain attacks will change your opponents hit box, causing your wake up attack to barely miss on its first impact frame, this is why you get those "wtf.. how did that get beat out by/trade with your attack" moments.

For moves only invincible on start up, a well timed attack from you opponent will always beat it out as it connects after the start up frames.

A LOT of wake up attacks can be beat out by jumping. This is when you dash under the jump on wake up and can actually punish the whiffed jump in attacks...

SO... if the opponent is going to just flat out attack me straight up as I get up, I will wake up attack. If they try to use a jump in attack, I will dash under them and punish the whiffed jumping attack. I believe this is called making a read, something you stated does not exist.

Here is a common example of when REO and I would run Batman vs Aquaman.... Say he knocks me down in the corner...He will come in with B+23 as I wake up, if I read this then I will use my trident scoop as a wake up attack and launch him. If he reads that, he will come in and neutral jump attack or cross up jump in attack and beat out my wake up. If I read that, I will dash under him and punish the whiffed jump in. If i was wrong and dash and he attacks, I get hit and punished. if I am right, he gets punished. Its both players having to make a read. This is how the wake up system works and how making reads on wake up works.

 

[Gin Tronic]

Nice example Tom Brady but not every char have wakeups like Aquaman or a godlike d+2. When a dash is a valid option for AA, why are the down twos called anti airs? I play Green Arrow, he have some decent AA, but against Batman or Harley, I have to throw them out on prediction to punish a jumpin with 17-23%. If I guess wrong, Batman deals way more damage. The non existent priority of hitbox based AA is the reason why the game is jumpy as heel and it leads to those dash-setups. What is the big problem giving a char a valid AA with invul frames against air attacks? It doesn´t mean auto wining every jumpin attempt, the keyword is spacing. But it could eleminate a lot of braindeadness in the game.

BTW, the wake up system is okay. Some wake ups are discussable like KF´s (safe launchers are stupid) or some heavy zoners with good wakeups. But in generall it works fine.

 

[Farpafraf]

I can't even remeber having used Sinestro's aracnid as a wake up since it gets beated every time by every move: i'm not complaining about my character but in general wakeups have lost their effectiveness

 

[RapZiLLa54]

RapZiLLa54

For moves only invincible on start up, a well timed attack from you opponent will always beat it out as it connects after the start up frames.

SO... if the opponent is going to just flat out attack me straight up as I get up, I will wake up attack.

How is this not contradicting? Why not just eliminate "making the read" via jump in and just delay b23 ever so slightly as to punish your wake up?

Also there are very few characters in this game who actually have the range to punish a whiffed jump in attack. IE if your example was reversed and Batman were to dash out (obviously without bats since hes already been knocked down) what can he do to "whiff punish" your jump in attack? If I jump at you its d2 combo, if I dash in its low starter combo, straight grapple will either get ducked or blocked from that distance leaving me to a eat a trident from the deep. AND if i wake up slide to go under your jump in, it whiffs and since its negative OVER 9000 you can punish me with full combo because the move sucks so much dick lol.

So please tell me exactly what are my options and the rest of 3/4s of the cast who have absolutely no range or if they do have range ala Catwomans f1 why are those 16 frame starters when Supermans is 8 and Aquamans is 9? The playing field isn't even, not even remotely close.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

lol tell that to air dash games. AH, GG, BB, MB, P4A are primary air games.

Try jumping against anyone good in any arcs game. See what happens

 

[Awsumpossm]

Don't know if its been mentioned yet, but WW actually has a pretty good wakeup attack with her lasso spin. Leads 40% and beyond if you connect 23 b3 ect afterward. It definitely has startup invincibility, it seems to always beat jump attacks.

 

[keo-bas]

Try jumping against anyone good in any arcs game. See what happens

try catching some who good at jump and air game. with the likes of air dash, instant guard. faultless shield, ect. Their minimal risk with jumps that one would have to commit to using AA stuff which can be baited or null with other stuff. don't mistake me for saying these game are bad. their just air dominated games. its what make them air dasher though Battle fantasia another story.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

try catching some who good at jump and air game. with the likes of air dash, instant guard. faultless shield, ect.

I do, for half their health.
As for faultless defense, it uses meter, one can simply use a specific normal, like Dizzy's F. slash, and that's almost half of their tension because they're jumping around like idiots.

Their minimal risk with jumps that one would have to commit to using AA stuff which can be baited or null with other stuff. don't mistake me for saying these game are bad. their just air dominated games. its what make them air dasher though Battle fantasia another story.

No they aren't, good players on grounded for a longer period of time than they are in the air. People only jump for set-ups, Tk's, cross-ups, air back dashes, to chase a jump, or when it's safe.
I know your not saying that they're bad, but you're giving out incorrect information.