Match-up Discussion Harley Quinn Matchup Discussion

[TheSpore]

Then he is a moron and he'll lose anyway. This kind of play isn't really productive to discuss in matchup threads.

I was JK around I did provide information from my experiences below that dumb sentence.

 

[Jermball]

Do tell me why the man with the best anti-airs and anti-zoning in the entire DC universe would ever jump.

Do tell me how a good player in general would not jump? Jump ins are powerful in this game, if you stay out of range, all he has is seismo to deal with you or trident but that's slow. Some say that's enough, but if he wants to get good damage on you, he would have to come at you, with a dash or jump, dash leaves you wide open, but his jumping attacks have good hitboxes. Even if he has the best aa and zoning. Thats why cupcakes are strong for this also.

 

[xWEBSx]

Because sometimes AM will get a case of restless leg syndrome and decide jumping is fun...

JK, AM is a pain to face as A MAJORITY OF THE CAST, she can't zone him really and she has to get in way close. This guy has been pain for me for a good while and I found some ways to deal with him using CW & KF and some of the same tactics might work for HQ as well. The key to him is WATCH YOUR SPACING, bait him into throwing out a combo and then strike back fast and do your best to keep him occupied. Its harder with Harley above all, but CW and KF have some great ways to get in on him.

Noticed an error from your post... Fixed

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

Do tell me how a good player in general would not jump? Jump ins are powerful in this game, if you stay out of range, all he has is seismo to deal with you or trident but that's slow. Some say that's enough, but if he wants to get good damage on you, he would have to come at you, with a dash or jump, dash leaves you wide open, but his jumping attacks have good hitboxes. Even if he has the best aa and zoning. Thats why cupcakes are strong for this also.

You haven't faced a single good Aqaman, have you? I feel dirty for even having to explain why AQUAMAN WOULD NOT JUMP.

Come back when you've faced an Aquaman user that isn't severely retarded, and try cupcaking him. I dare you. The result will speak for itself.

 

[Jermball]

You haven't faced a single good Aqaman, have you? I feel dirty for even having to explain why AQUAMAN WOULD NOT JUMP.

Come back when you've faced an Aquaman user that isn't severely retarded, and try cupcaking him. I dare you. The result will speak for itself.

That's a poor attitude you have there. Let me clarify.
The only reason aquaman beats harley the way he does is trait.

Gunshot beats seismo on start up, and cupcake bombs beat jump in. MB cupcakes come out fast enough to stop him in his tracks and you force him to come in.
The point? Stop letting aquaman control the match. Set up safe jumps for his d2 since is retarded good. A lot of his strings are vulnerable to tantrum on wake up also.
What aquaman is retarded enough to stay in the ground against someone who is just as strong if not stronger? Also, his strings are super vulnerable to mb b3.

Buddy of mine plays aquaman. I never said it was easy, I'm just saying it not as hard as people believe it is.

 

[Jermball]

Players will jump, its inevitable...you can't say they'll never jump ever. If harley is in aquamans face, I guarentee at least one jump out of panic. Jump back 2 from aquaman has a really strong hitbox also so why not?

 

[xWEBSx]

That's a poor attitude you have there. Let me clarify.
The only reason aquaman beats harley the way he does is trait.

Gunshot beats seismo on start up, and cupcake bombs beat jump in. MB cupcakes come out fast enough to stop him in his tracks and you force him to come in.
The point? Stop letting aquaman control the match. Set up safe jumps for his d2 since is retarded good. A lot of his strings are vulnerable to tantrum on wake up also.
What aquaman is retarded enough to stay in the ground against someone who is just as strong if not stronger? Also, his strings are super vulnerable to mb b3.

Buddy of mine plays aquaman. I never said it was easy, I'm just saying it not as hard as people believe it is.

I've agreed with much of what you have posted in the past.. I have to disagree with you about Aquaman however. The only thing that beats a competent Aquaman is to try and get a life lead, good defense, and patience.

 

[Jermball]

You haven't faced a single good Aqaman, have you? I feel dirty for even having to explain why AQUAMAN WOULD NOT JUMP.

Come back when you've faced an Aquaman user that isn't severely retarded, and try cupcaking him. I dare you. The result will speak for itself.

I also would love to hear your reasoning why aquaman shouldn't jump against harley or jump at all.

 

[Jermball]

I've agreed with much of what you have posted in the past.. I have to disagree with you about Aquaman however. The only thing that beats a competent Aquaman is to try and get a life lead, good defense, and patience.

Thanks webs. But that goes with anyone in the game. I think the most important things against him is paitence and good blocking. Because once you get a mixup, he has limited responses on wakeup.

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

That's a poor attitude you have there. Let me clarify.
The only reason aquaman beats harley the way he does is trait.

Gunshot beats seismo on start up, and cupcake bombs beat jump in. MB cupcakes come out fast enough to stop him in his tracks and you force him to come in.
The point? Stop letting aquaman control the match. Set up safe jumps for his d2 since is retarded good. A lot of his strings are vulnerable to tantrum on wake up also.
What aquaman is retarded enough to stay in the ground against someone who is just as strong if not stronger? Also, his strings are super vulnerable to mb b3.

Buddy of mine plays aquaman. I never said it was easy, I'm just saying it not as hard as people believe it is.

All your reasoning is wrong. Let's be blunt, your buddy is a ridicilously bad Aquaman if he seriously just lets your gunshots stop the tridents. Or if he fucking jumps, for that matter.

You will NEVER force a good Aquaman to get in. It will just not happen. He will duck under/block your gunshot once, and trident you to oblivion for seriously thinking you can outzone him.

Up close you don't really have much on him either. He'll trait your tantrum, AA the crossup, and all his normals are flatout better. He is still favored up close, he has no reason to get away. Also poor wakeup options? WHAT? Look. Just because your buddy doesn't know how to wake-up doesn't mean he has poor wake-up options. Pretty much most(if not all) of his specials are suitable for wake-up.

I'm not saying Aquaman is unwinnable. But with strategy like that you won't win aagainst a single Aquaman who knows what he's doing.

 

[xWEBSx]

Thanks webs. But that goes with anyone in the game. I think the most important things against him is paitence and good blocking. Because once you get a mixup, he has limited responses on wakeup.

While its a bread and butter, basic staple of all fighting games, it is not true for everyone.. Sometimes aggressiveness wins the day.. Not at all on Aquaman

 

[Eshi]

Aquaman out-footsies Harley extremely hard and his amazing ground AA's let him punish Harley's jump-ins for free on reaction. Aquaman shouldn't jump because he is at his strongest at all times on the ground.

Unrelated: Harley's sweep is by far her best anti-air. It won't work on anything with a big downward hitbox, but so far I've found that it works on Doomsday/Bane body splash, Ares' elbow drop, and even Batman at certain spacings. It's actually pretty legit.

 

[LKG]

Aquaman out-footsies Harley extremely hard and his amazing ground AA's let him punish Harley's jump-ins for free on reaction. Aquaman shouldn't jump because he is at his strongest at all times on the ground.

Unrelated: Harley's sweep is by far her best anti-air. It won't work on anything with a big downward hitbox, but so far I've found that it works on Doomsday/Bane body splash, Ares' elbow drop, and even Batman at certain spacings. It's actually pretty legit.

Her sweep? You mean the gunshot? I can't really see it, but I mean, I believe you. I'll try it out. Crazy. I think I remember you mentioning how it low profiles a lot of moves.

 

[Mood4food77]

if that works consistently, then she might have one of the dumbest anti-airs, her cross-up is already pretty ambiguous

 

[Eshi]

Her sweep? You mean the gunshot? I can't really see it, but I mean, I believe you. I'll try it out. Crazy. I think I remember you mentioning how it low profiles a lot of moves.

Yeah. It works because the D3 animation lowers her hit box a lot. It also low profiles ground attacks that hit high, but in regards to jump-ins it loses to cross-ups or air attacks with a big downward box (like green arrow when he swings his huge-ass bow). It's definitely match-up specific so I'm going to keep experimenting with who it beats and loses to.

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

Yeah. It works because the D3 animation lowers her hit box a lot. It also low profiles ground attacks that hit high, but in regards to jump-ins it loses to cross-ups or air attacks with a big downward box (like green arrow when he swings his huge-ass bow). It's definitely match-up specific so I'm going to keep experimenting with who it beats and loses to.

I take that it makes the jump-ins of certain characters whiff. And then? Are you at frame advantage? Can you punish them?

 

[Eshi]

I take that it makes the jump-ins of certain characters whiff. And then? Are you at frame advantage? Can you punish them?

The sweep hits and knocks them down immediately.

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

The sweep hits and knocks them down immediately.

I'm kinda confused how does it do that to an airborne character. Can you show a video?

 

[LKG]

The sweep hits and knocks them down immediately.

That subsequently leads to tricky oki and the likes. Thank you Snoop Lion for blessing this character.

... if only she had a real trait. ;;

 

[xWildx]

I'm having trouble with the Joker MU. She doesn't seem to be able to zone him, and Joker gets higher damage plus that beastly j3. Any tips on dealing with him?

 

[KamkaziChicila]

The Aquaman match up is terrible for Harley. At distance his Siesmos kill cupcakes, she can't really jump in since his amazing D2 and he's just too nasty at neutral game while Harley has nothing to stop it. Personally his trait isn't that big of an issue if you go for 2 ,U3 into B3. Also abuse tiger knee air guns! Even if you are playing against the best Aquaman you have to keep him blocking and throw all that chip at 'em.

 

[ShinSenkai]

>vs Black Adam
Sometimes d1 ~ TS works as a punish to a blocked dive kick. I think its dependent on the height at which you blocked it.

 

[ZAV1010]

i still find shazam to be a worse match-up than aquaman

it literally feels like a big f-u in the match-up, he doesn't care about anything harley does

The only Shazam I played rushed me the whole time. He was good, but it made him a bit predictable with his charge move and lightning.

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

Also, his (aquaman) strings are super vulnerable to mb b3.

Most of aquamans strings will break through that 1 hit of armor unless it was at nearly max range of your mb b3 where subsequent hits in the string might whiff But i agree the matchup is winnable, you just have to straight outplay the other guy, cuz aquaman shits on harley for the most part. Jump guns all day until you can punish something or land a lucky TS

 

[CTZero]

The more I play with Harley, the more I realize that she is a good character. However, when compared to the rest of the cast, it can become troublesome and an uphill battle for her.

vs. Aquaman
- I've read the posts here about this match-up....One of her uphill battles at this stage of the game. She cannot utilize her zoning tools because Aqua does an excellent job at doing this. If you have a life lead, zoning Aquaman is a bit troublesome
- Sweep range: Aquaman has the advantage with the threat of his low combo starter as well as his space control. Harley would have to be in range zero to apply frame traps and apply rushdown.
- Aquaman's Trait: Free combo breakers? lol Once Harley does the job of getting close to him, attempting to land a combo is quite difficult as well.

vs. Lex Luthor
- Who would have thought this could be another uphill battle. As a Harley player, getting in and staying in on Lex is key to this. Reason why I say this is because his setups and traps from a distance make this match-up frustrating. As long as he is building meter, he will have control and dictate the pace of the match against Harley. Also, his range and reach (Jump 3), is a major advantage for him.

- If Lex knocks Harley down and both are full screen, Lex can trap with Meter Burn Lex Probe, Gravity Mine, and has the option to use a series of regular or meter burn Orbital Strike (unblockable). This trap is a bit difficult to get out for Harley, and Lex is building meter during this process.

- For Harley, if you are able to get Lex in the corner, then it's major problems for him. Harley has her dirty setups, frametraps, and high/low corner combo opportunities into Playing Doctor as well as other possibilities.

Brief Thought: I do understand that I have only focused on two characters that can give her problems. I believe she can do well against some of the cast, but I guess their is a reason why she isn't being utilized or used as frequently as other characters in the game. She does not have anything that you can abuse since her design is considered to be "well-rounded" and other characters does what she is able to do...only that they can do it better.