Can Injustice appeal to casuals?

[ColdBoreMK23]

Let me give you an example of a casual VS a good dedicated player.

I play against my friend who uses Raven and is damn good with her. He punishes my Aqua and Sinestro and makes very little mistakes. Out games are usually close with the win going either way.

I can then run into a person online who uses Raven who throws out lifts and the crush move 24/7. Doesn't care that I will FC punish. Doesn't block, doesn't try to punish, nothing.

I actually felt bad the one day when a newbie challenged me and I roughed him up about 7 games in a row. He sent me a message saying that people like me ruin the fun of the game.

While I enjoyed his salty delicious tears I also felt bad at the same time because he just wanted to have fun with his favorite character and I crushed him to pieces.

Ya know... Ahhh to hell with it. He deserved to be smashed. =)

 

[Sami]

WTB easier input buffer.

 

[Posthuman]

If KOFXlll was as easy as IGAS I wouldnt be playing other fighter but kof lol.
Injustice is one of the easiest fighters execution wise.

 

[Stchamps]

I disagree about combos being easy lol.

You can hit confirm and buffer special moves late in SF. In Injustice you have to be really precise if you special cancel and you constantly have to commit to stuff. You also can't shortcut/mash reversals and you can't add additional inputs or your move won't come out. It's very tough to do elaborate combos online in this game compared to SF imo.

It depends on the character you use I guess but with Black Adam for example I drop more than 50% of my punish attempts online because he has a few 1-2 frame links that you can mash but if you mash your buffered special will be cancelled so you have to manually time them. Plus sometimes trait doesn't even come out online. So yeah I find the combo system in this game really unforgiving and unintuitive. Not to mention hitstun can make some strings whiff and counter hitting during startup or recovery can make you uncombo.

Your entire arguments relies on Injustice's crappy online, and not the actual game play.

 

[Juggs]

If KOFXlll was as easy as IGAS I wouldnt be playing other fighter but kof lol.
Injustice is one of the easiest fighters execution wise.

The execution is Injustice is not that easy, definitely not "the easiest fighter execution wise". The execution in Injustice is actually more difficult because there's very little leniency in combos as you cannot mash and use shortcuts like you can in other games. I have no problem doing complex combos in AE, Marvel, MK9, UMK3, 3S, VF, etc, but do have problems in Injustice doing combos consistently. And I'm someone who usually has good execution. It really depends on the character and which combos you're doing though. And it's not about the combos being relatively easy, it's about them being consistent.

An example is not being able to do shortcuts for special canceling in combos. That's a very big deal when it comes to execution. When you're used to using shortcuts for specials and then not being able to when you're trying to special cancel, that's something you have to get used to. And the fact that there's very little input leniency as far as wrong inputs are concerned. There's no plinking where you can press other buttons to make it easier because if you press a wrong button, it will mess up the combo. And the timing is more strict on a lot of combos than they are in other games, because distance, hit box, and amount of hits play a factor in how and where the character will fall.

 

[Monitor2112]

Wow. This thread has really opened me up a bit as for years (since the MK1 and SF2 days) I've been a gung-ho, hardcore fighting game guy, and I never (and I mean NEVER) was in this "casual" mind set. Still, even back then in those earlier days, I was a scrub, and it wasn't until much later that I dropped my scrubby mindset, and adopted the "play to win" standard that I hold true to today.

...

To all the newer members, know that TYM (and sites like it) have always been a haven to the core FG fans, so reading a casual's perspective here is both bewindering (to most) and somewhat inspiring (to me anyway). Seeing/reading all these new perspectives, I'm really only left with only 1 question: as a community, where do we all go from here?

...

To bring it back though, like I said in the beginning of this post, this thread really opened me up, as before today I was content helping people on the forums exclusively, and just killing people online as my way of self improving, and also improving the community. But now, I want any "casual" players out there who are reading this thread and either have an itch to get better, or just want to play with some one from the "elitist-side", to hit me up for some games on Live. I'm all about helping the comunity in anyway that I can with the limited time that I have, and like I said at the top, I'm not the best, but I do feel that I can see and peice together aspects of the game with the best of them. So, if you want to learn from an "elitist", hit me up.

Xbox GT: UncappedWheel82

Bottomline, this game, this genre, at it's core isn't about winning or loosing, it's about leveling up and getting better. As you level-up you win more yes, but like I've already said, it's more about the journey then the finale.

I've got to thank Onilordasmodeus for taking some time with me earlier tonight to help me start working on my fundamentals. He certainly opened up my eyes to what it is I needed to work on first.

I'm not a fighting game player. I've played them all as nothing more than a button masher who may take the time to learn one or two moves/strings but never more than that. So you can certainly call me a casual player of this game. I got it because of the DC brand. I'm staying because I find the game fun and I actually WANT to learn how to play it at a higher level.

I have quite a ways to go, but each journey starts with that first step. I'm taking mine now. Thanks again Onilordasmodeus for showing me the path to start on.

 

[Posthuman]

Juggs agree but execution in theory is too easy, they just need to fix the input delay and some other bugs that mess with our inputs right?
is it fixable?

 

[ThaShiveGeek]

No shade, but I agree that a game like Injustice is a little bit harder to get into versus a game like street fighter IV. That's my opinion, but the mere fact that you're on this forum posting about Injustice means that you're a tad bit more dedicated then the average gamer. Practice makes perfect. MK9 was the first fighting I became "Good" at. It's taken me almost two years to good with my Sub-Zero. I can even deal with horrible match ups because of TYM. Practice makes perfect. If you practice enough you'll be alright man.

 

[ThaShiveGeek]

I think ALL fighting games can appeal to casuals as long as they find a reason to like it but the real question is how many casuals will actually spend time to actually get good at the game? You dont have to be an expert to enjoy even the most hardcore fighting games but fighting games unfortunately have this stigma of you have to be an expert to enjoy it. Every fighting game can be enjoyed at all levels of play you dont have to be an expert to enjoy a fighting game and a big problem i feel is learning to accept losing. People cant stand losing especially in a 1 0n 1 environment like in a fighting game.

What i tell people is i get my ass kicked all the time but guess what if i keep losing to a certain tactic im the type of person who wants to learn how to beat that tactic. I think one aspect that the FGC doesnt focus on enough is being able to accept losing. In team games for example its easier to blame teammates but when you lose in a fighting game you have no one to blame except yourself. The problem is a lot of people dont want to blame themselves for the loss so they blame the game instead. Its discouraging to keep losing especially if your new to fighting games but those players need to know losing isnt the end of the world instead its a vital part of the learning process.

Anyway long live fighting games.

Bruh I wanna post this on my Facebook! This is so true.

 

[TectonicSuperPlates]

but the mere fact that you're on this forum posting about Injustice means that you're a tad bit more dedicated then the average gamer.

Oh most definitely. I love Injustice, and I play the game as religiously as I can. I try. Lemme tell you. I try to bust out big time combos, master timing, all of that jazz, but I just can't seem to get it. It seems to come so natural to others, and to me, it's so difficult. And others see my viewpoint as well. This game is in no way easy, and just because someone can do it doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else.

It's like that guy who thinks he's good at CoD because he can hold down the right trigger and blind fire and get all of these kills, and apparently everyone else sucks because they can't do it like he can.

Maybe some people have a knack for big time combos. Others have a knack for playing Magic The Gathering. Others have a knack for getting kill streaks in CoD. I have a knack for struggling when trying to perform big time combos. I just can't seem to do it.

In the fighting game community, or rather in all video games, a side of hypocrite might arise referring to what I typed above. Why? Because yes, you suck if you can't perform big time combos or get kill streaks. Those that can are clearly better than you. But at the end of the day then, what game appeals to casuals if casuals can't excel like the professionals can? And not just that, but if the casual tries and tries and just can't do it?

I bust my ass trying to land, for example, coming off of the Lobo Combo Thread, this combo right here - Trait, 21, df1d (low Pump Shot), 21, db2. And I can't do it. The fluidity of my motions and movements just don't get the job done. Whether my timing is off, or I just don't have the knack for doing big time combos... I can't do it. I just can't.

Does that make me a crappy gamer? Compared to everyone else that can do it? Yes. I'm sure even button mashers have pulled off bigger combos than I have. Hell, even DarksydePhil, one of the most laughed at fighting game players in all of YouTube, can perform combos that I can't. Because those that can do it are simply better. It's a fact. And those that can will always dominate, especially in fighting games - specifically Injustice.

This game doesn't appeal to casuals as everyone seems to think. It's a very difficult game. It's not as easy as people say it is.

Maybe I ranted a bit, maybe I went off-topic, I don't know. I just wrote now what came to my head. Again, I bust my ass trying to perform these combos. And I can't do them.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

@TectonicSuperPlates:

Sorry to read that you are having such a difficult time. The first question that pops in my mind is who do you play/practice with? Do you usually do play by yourself? Or do you have others who play with you that you can converse with.

It is true that some pick up on these games faster than others. Some are just naturally talented, and some are just more experience. Really what it sounds like in your case is that you are just inexperienced with the timing, and the motions needed to do the moves. If you want to get better, I suggest finding a buddy to train/practice with; someone who is better than you are and can try and help you understand what you are doing wrong.

These games can be tough when trying to get max damage combos and the like, but when you start smaller, getting those shorter buffering inputs down, after a while adding 1 or 2 or 3 more inputs becomes less of an issue.

 

[TectonicSuperPlates]

Sorry to read that you are having such a difficult time. The first question that pops in my mind is who do you play/practice with? Do you usually do play by yourself? Or do you have others who play with you that you can converse with.

I'm trying to main and focus on Lobo. I love the character, so I want to focus on him.

I play by myself, yeah. I have my friends, but they aren't online all the time. So it's just usually me in either random ranked battles or training.

Really what it sounds like in your case is that you are just inexperienced with the timing, and the motions needed to do the moves.

But what I find most absurd is that I can't win by sticking solely to fundamentals. I need to perform big time combos to win in this game.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

I'm trying to main and focus on Lobo. I love the character, so I want to focus on him.

I play by myself, yeah. I have my friends, but they aren't online all the time. So it's just usually me in either random ranked battles or training.



But what I find most absurd is that I can't win by sticking solely to fundamentals. I need to perform big time combos to win in this game.

The combos that you do, do they push the opponent to the other side of the screen? Do you find yourself at square one after every combo or hit that you do? Do you know how, or rather have you found ways, to plant your opponent on the ground in order to better control the flow of the match?

I may be talking out my @$$ a bit as I don't play Lobo at all, so I don't really know the tools he has at his disposal, but those are the questions you probably should be asking (that I probably would be asking) so you (I) could get better at creating mix-ups and cross-up opportunities. Without having played you, or even having seen you play, I really don't know how to better help you. But I know for a fact that the only way to get better if you don't know what you are doing wrong is to grind it out so you can figure it out, or have someone help coach you through your issues.

These games aren't rocket science; they are mostly built on rhythm and muscle memory (IMO). Once you get to a point where you are not laboring over the movements, or over thinking the timing, things start to click (or at least that is how it worked/works for me). Like I said in my earlier posts, start smaller and get those combos down pat (find and master a bunch of them). Only then should you move on to 2 and 3 part combos, with multiple strings and juggle points that involve cancels and the like.

 

[ThaShiveGeek]

Oh most definitely. I love Injustice, and I play the game as religiously as I can. I try. Lemme tell you. I try to bust out big time combos, master timing, all of that jazz, but I just can't seem to get it. It seems to come so natural to others, and to me, it's so difficult. And others see my viewpoint as well. This game is in no way easy, and just because someone can do it doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else.

It's like that guy who thinks he's good at CoD because he can hold down the right trigger and blind fire and get all of these kills, and apparently everyone else sucks because they can't do it like he can.

Maybe some people have a knack for big time combos. Others have a knack for playing Magic The Gathering. Others have a knack for getting kill streaks in CoD. I have a knack for struggling when trying to perform big time combos. I just can't seem to do it.

In the fighting game community, or rather in all video games, a side of hypocrite might arise referring to what I typed above. Why? Because yes, you suck if you can't perform big time combos or get kill streaks. Those that can are clearly better than you. But at the end of the day then, what game appeals to casuals if casuals can't excel like the professionals can? And not just that, but if the casual tries and tries and just can't do it?

I bust my ass trying to land, for example, coming off of the Lobo Combo Thread, this combo right here - Trait, 21, df1d (low Pump Shot), 21, db2. And I can't do it. The fluidity of my motions and movements just don't get the job done. Whether my timing is off, or I just don't have the knack for doing big time combos... I can't do it. I just can't.

Does that make me a crappy gamer? Compared to everyone else that can do it? Yes. I'm sure even button mashers have pulled off bigger combos than I have. Hell, even DarksydePhil, one of the most laughed at fighting game players in all of YouTube, can perform combos that I can't. Because those that can do it are simply better. It's a fact. And those that can will always dominate, especially in fighting games - specifically Injustice.

This game doesn't appeal to casuals as everyone seems to think. It's a very difficult game. It's not as easy as people say it is.

Maybe I ranted a bit, maybe I went off-topic, I don't know. I just wrote now what came to my head. Again, I bust my ass trying to perform these combos. And I can't do them.

Here's a little lesson that I hope helps you out. When SFxT came out I bought it. Played it, and didn't like it. Hated it. I thought I would love it seeing as though I dropped 65 bucks on it, but I just didn't enjoy it. I couldn't get into it. I couldn't do combos. I didn't understand the super move & how they were supposed to be performed. So I stopped playing it.

All my friends play COD. Their super good at it. I'm super bad. I tried to get into because all my friends tell me that If I'm so good at MK which is harder to learn then I should be a beast at COD. I suck! I just can't get into. Sometimes certain things aren't for everybody. Maybe I didn't try to learn those two games like I could have, but I don't care about them because I LOVE playing MK9. I love My MK3 skin Sub-Zero. I've put in time and energy with MK. I've had arguments with my girlfriend about how much time I play lol.
Point being... If you put in enough practice you'll get it, and if you don't... Move on. There's nothing wrong with accepting defeat. You tried, and that's all that matters.

 

[InFlames]

I don't know about you, but I find learning combos really fun. It gives the game more replay value in my opinion.

 

[Red Reaper]

Again, sitting in the corner and spamming the same attack over and over does nothing for casuals when competitive players destroy you. Spamming does nothing against people who know what they are doing. I can show you video proof of this.



Oh yes. You jump into a ranked game, and you maybe only played like 20 games, and you get paired with someone who has played well over 200 games.

...what? What kind of balance is that? There is none.

How many games you've played is not really an indicator of how good you are...

 

[Red Reaper]

Simple. An understanding on how this game appeals to casuals. No one has yet to disprove that sitting back and zone spamming with Deathstroke or Sinestro will help against someone experienced who casually busts out 15 hit combos like it's their job to do it.

Casuals cannot win in this game against competitive players. I have video proof of this.



Of course you can learn. If you have the drive and desire to learn(and if you see the work as tedious can be another factor). But if you don't, what then? Are you seen as an idiot because you can't? Most elitists will call you a noob if you play casually, sitting back and zoning/spamming to try and win.

I'm not mad. At all. Why do people take questioning as automatic criticism? Questioning has a solid basis in trying to understand. That's what I am trying to do. Understand how exactly this game appeals to casuals in the long run. So far, it doesn't.

Do you really want people that put in effort to easily lose to people that don't?

Honestly, imagine if everything was like this. Sports would be pointless since it's pretty much a koin flip. The olympics would be pointless, because people that don't even work out would be able to win.

NRS did a good job in making it appeal to casuals. The difference is that you're like a kid who just picked up a basketball, trying to play against the NBA and komplaining that you kan't win.. Of kourse you kan't if you just barely bounced the ball a bit!

That's why people create rooms that say "Beginners Only" or "No Spammerzz", etc... You should try that, or stick to playing with your friends or against the komp. That's what I did when I was a kasual.

If you want to get better however, we have the resources here on TYM to help..

 

[Red Reaper]

Those that don't complain, again, are the elitists who land the 15-hit combos.

So anybody that doesn't agree with you is an Elitist? That sounds rational.

 

[Amadeous]

That's why people create rooms that say "Beginners Only" or "No Spammerzz"

Is it immature that I go in these rooms and "Spam" just to piss them off?

 

[aldazo]

Is it immature that I go in these rooms and "Spam" just to piss them off?

No immature, just retarded... .

 

[Amadeous]

No inmature, just retarded... .

*Not immature

If you are gonna call me retarded than spell correctly

 

[aldazo]

*Not immature

If you are gonna call me retarded than spell correctly

My bad, already edited ... .

 

[Utricle]

If you don't want to take the time to learn "12 hit combos" in Injustice, you absolutely don't deserve to beat anyone who takes this game even semi-seriously. The combo system in this game is very easy to learn and I wouldn't even slightly compare it to the difficulty of KOF13. Bottom line, if playing with people that are better than you(which is how you get better at the game, BTW) is too much for you to handle. Why not play the game with casual friends? This post is kind of silly tbh.

 

[Monitor2112]

Oh most definitely. I love Injustice, and I play the game as religiously as I can. I try. Lemme tell you. I try to bust out big time combos, master timing, all of that jazz, but I just can't seem to get it. It seems to come so natural to others, and to me, it's so difficult. And others see my viewpoint as well. This game is in no way easy, and just because someone can do it doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else.

It's like that guy who thinks he's good at CoD because he can hold down the right trigger and blind fire and get all of these kills, and apparently everyone else sucks because they can't do it like he can.

Maybe some people have a knack for big time combos. Others have a knack for playing Magic The Gathering. Others have a knack for getting kill streaks in CoD. I have a knack for struggling when trying to perform big time combos. I just can't seem to do it.

In the fighting game community, or rather in all video games, a side of hypocrite might arise referring to what I typed above. Why? Because yes, you suck if you can't perform big time combos or get kill streaks. Those that can are clearly better than you. But at the end of the day then, what game appeals to casuals if casuals can't excel like the professionals can? And not just that, but if the casual tries and tries and just can't do it?

I bust my ass trying to land, for example, coming off of the Lobo Combo Thread, this combo right here - Trait, 21, df1d (low Pump Shot), 21, db2. And I can't do it. The fluidity of my motions and movements just don't get the job done. Whether my timing is off, or I just don't have the knack for doing big time combos... I can't do it. I just can't.

Does that make me a crappy gamer? Compared to everyone else that can do it? Yes. I'm sure even button mashers have pulled off bigger combos than I have. Hell, even DarksydePhil, one of the most laughed at fighting game players in all of YouTube, can perform combos that I can't. Because those that can do it are simply better. It's a fact. And those that can will always dominate, especially in fighting games - specifically Injustice.

This game doesn't appeal to casuals as everyone seems to think. It's a very difficult game. It's not as easy as people say it is.

Maybe I ranted a bit, maybe I went off-topic, I don't know. I just wrote now what came to my head. Again, I bust my ass trying to perform these combos. And I can't do them.

It's kinda sad to see people busting on you for writing this post.

Fear not brother, I feel the same way. Like you I am having difficulty learning the game. I've never tried to learn to play fighting games, other than wrestling titles...and those are nothing like real fighting games.

I have spent the last couple of days, AT LEAST 5 hours each day, trying to perfect just a portion of a combo stream. I stopped using my real life favorite character, Nightwing, to use Superman, who, at least to me, seems easier to learn his fundamentals. So there I sit, in practice, trying over and over....f23. MB Super Breath, that's it..2 punches and a superpower. Sometimes I get it? Other times I miss the meter burn. Or I am just a little too slow getting it off. Usually it is the meter burn. Occasionally I don't get super breath at all. It gets even worse when I turn the A.I. on. I go from around hitting it 75% of the time to maybe 50%.

I'm not giving up though. I do fully intend to take advantage of what I can learn here. I don't have anyone to play with usually, and I did try to play with someone from here. He was extremely nice, and patient, but in the end his advice was to just learn the fundamentals. So I have been.

It seems that the release of Injustice has brought in a lot of new comers to TYM, such as myself and TecTonicSuperPlates. Mostly everyone has been very kind and welcoming. I think that some people just expect a certain level of proficiency that we don't have...YET. And reading about it, or just being told to work it out isn't necessarily going to get the skill to rise.

Well, sorry. I just wanted to let TSP know that he is not alone.


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[Monitor2112]

Oh...and no I don't think TSP or I should just be able to come in and get wins. I don't care about winning or losing. I'm willing to take the time to learn 12 hit combos, etc. I'm just having a bitching of a time trying to learn.


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