Can Injustice appeal to casuals?

[MorbidAltruism]

I love Injustice, but I enjoyed MK9 more. it was just everything really.. im not getting the same feeling with this game :/ it seems like every match is just a zoning match. so fucking boring after awhile imo

I honestly have to agree with you. It is a little unfortunate. I will still play Injustice... but I kind of miss MK9. :16Bit

 

[TectonicSuperPlates]

This game appeals to casuals as much as meat appeals to vegetarians.

I see where the OP is coming from. I grew up playing SF2 and the original MK and MK II in my local arcade. Once fighting games became more and more focused on combos I had less and less interest in playing them. Not because I didn't want to take the time to learn the combos, but because I didn't philosophically agree with a string of moves that took away half my health bar in 5 seconds.

Meters filling up in order to do crazy mega-super moves? What kind of crazy world was I living in?

Suddenly this was the way of every new fighting game. Learn these moves that would utterly dominate you, unless you did a special block, that was a special move on its own... and time it perfectly. I suddenly found myself with less and less interest in fighting games and quit playing them all together, picking up a few here and there to see if anything had changed. It hadn't.

Then I started reading about IGAU and hoped it wouldn't be the same. Unfortunately it pretty much is. One thing I do like about it is that some of the characters seem not to rwly on combos as much. Most Doomsdays or Shazams or Deathstrokes I play against rely mainly on their specials. But I love comics, and deep down I still love fighting games. That's what drew me, a casual, to IGAU. The DC lineup. So I picked a main, and I've spent hours with him in practice. I've gone from not knowing what "cancelling" meant to being able to perform a 2 MB 40+% combo. I even made 3 people rage quit today.

Do I enjoy the game more now? Not really. I kind of hate myself a little for doing it. But like I said, deep down there's a part of me that has missed these games, and I love comics.

In the end, for better or for worse, this is the state of the genre. I had to accept that and either learn to roll with it or never play another fighter in my life. So I picked up Superman and learned how to juggle in corners and dial in the combos. Then I learned Sinestro, because I think he's the most fun when I'm zoning and keeping people away. Find a character that can be effective without combos and get used to the clash system.

This game may draw casuals for the roster, but I don't know how many it will keep. Even if the combo system is simpler, it's still, fundamentally the same type game that pushes people like me away. I believe myself to be an exception to this.

It's just the way these games are now, like it or not. Personally I don't, but Street Fighter II isn't coming back.

You got it exactly right.

I hate elitists who don't understand. Their own roots were being casuals learning and hustling through the game, learning the game, mastering combos, etc. Now, because they can do it "Oh, it's super easy anyone can do it." No. Not everyone can do it. Not even that. Not everyone has the drive to do it. They did. But guess what? Not everyone is the same last I checked.

And then games like Injustice really become a clique, if you will. Those who can perform 15 hit combos, and those who can't.

They think it's so easy to just do what they do. Lol.

Have you ever come across someone, like a car mechanic, who says "Man, fixing this car is easy", and to you the problem is one of the biggest things in the world, but they fix your car with the tiniest screw turn here(just for example) and that's it. Car fixed. And you had no idea what they did or how they did it? To you, it was as the most confusing thing in the world. Same concept applies with fighting games. Just because someone gets fancy on a fight stick, doesn't mean that I understand what they are doing, how they did it, and it doesn't mean I can do it too.

 

[DownfouralitY]

I honestly have to agree with you. It is a little unfortunate. I will still play Injustice... but I kind of miss MK9. :16Bit

yeah i'll definitely stick with injustice just seems kind of a let down for me personally. the stages are already getting boring lol

 

[Alien Substance]

The game does appeal to casuals, in terms of aesthetics and gameplay.
When casuals get to those who are competitive, it does not, because they know much more about how to play fighting games. It's a bit of a shame this kind of skill gap exists, but that's how FGs and certain games work.

What exactly are you trying to gain or extract out of this thread, Tectonic?

 

[LazyActor14]

Have you ever come across someone, like a car mechanic, who says "Man, fixing this car is easy", and to you the problem is one of the biggest things in the world, but they fix your car with the tiniest screw turn here(just for example) and that's it. Car fixed. And you had no idea what they did or how they did it? To you, it was as the most confusing thing in the world. Same concept applies with fighting games. Just because someone gets fancy on a fight stick, doesn't mean that I understand what they are doing, how they did it, and it doesn't mean I can do it too.

Do you get mad at the mechanic and think he's being an elitist just because he can fix a car though? No. He put in the time and effort so to him it's easy. You should respect what he's done. If you get mad that you can't fix a car like him, learn to fix the car. If it's too hard to fix the car on your own, ask for help or just have someone else fix it. You can't miraculously fix any car overnight. It'll take time, effort, and dedication. If you don't want to put in that time to fix the car, you shouldn't be upset when it stalls out.

Look. You're on this forum for a reason. You obviously take it a little bit more serious than the average casual if you're willing to make an account and ask the question. Find the players to help you and have fun with, but don't get mad at people who work harder at it or "get it" more than you do. That's how life works. I'm sure there's something that you can do that's wildly better than most people who are good at fighting games. Just accept it and have fun with the skill set you do have.

 

[Seretar]

I've learnt a lot from reading the posts here, but I never post myself because compared to the folks on this site I am the casualest of casuals. I love gaming, but I've never been a huge fighting game fan. I decided to pick up Injustice, though, because I love the DC characters and because I wanted to commit to getting at least decent at one fighting game.

And, to be fair, I recognize some of the OPs concerns: sometimes being blown up by a huge combo which I feel I could never do myself is very dispiriting. I can lose half a bar of life without being able to do anything at all! And I certainly could see some more casual players being put off by that.

However, there are a number of things that keep me coming back:

• Good strategy with the interactables can go a long way to evening out a match, and knowing a stage helps a lot.
• Learning to clash and push-block properly also gives me a fighting chance against better opponents, because at least I can limit the damage I'm going to take.
• Learning to actually block shit has improved my play enormously without a huge amount of effort (though I suck at punishing!)
• The animations, skins, stages, and variety of characters are all way more interesting than any fighitng game I've ever played, which makes even being totally destroyed a lot of fun.

But most important, the thing which keeps me coming back to this game even after being completely bashed-in is that I'm getting better. Spending a few hours with combo lists in practice mode, learning how the timing works a bit, understanding how to link strings together, sticking with one character and practicing: I'm getting a sense of satisfaction which I haven't felt from a game in a long time.
So for this casual, the game has plenty of spice to keep me interested even if I get brutally beaten quite often. It's flashy, fun, and over-the-top - and practice actually works! Who'd have thought?

 

[MorbidAltruism]

I've learnt a lot from reading the posts here, but I never post myself because compared to the folks on this site I am the casualest of casuals. I love gaming, but I've never been a huge fighting game fan. I decided to pick up Injustice, though, because I love the DC characters and because I wanted to commit to getting at least decent at one fighting game.

And, to be fair, I recognize some of the OPs concerns: sometimes being blown up by a huge combo which I feel I could never do myself is very dispiriting. I can lose half a bar of life without being able to do anything at all! And I certainly could see some more casual players being put off by that.

However, there are a number of things that keep me coming back:

• Good strategy with the interactables can go a long way to evening out a match, and knowing a stage helps a lot.
• Learning to clash and push-block properly also gives me a fighting chance against better opponents, because at least I can limit the damage I'm going to take.
• Learning to actually block shit has improved my play enormously without a huge amount of effort (though I suck at punishing!)
• The animations, skins, stages, and variety of characters are all way more interesting than any fighitng game I've ever played, which makes even being totally destroyed a lot of fun.

But most important, the thing which keeps me coming back to this game even after being completely bashed-in is that I'm getting better. Spending a few hours with combo lists in practice mode, learning how the timing works a bit, understanding how to link strings together, sticking with one character and practicing: I'm getting a sense of satisfaction which I haven't felt from a game in a long time.

So for this casual, the game has plenty of spice to keep me interested even if I get brutally beaten quite often. It's flashy, fun, and over-the-top - and practice actually works! Who'd have thought?

That is nice. That was how I felt when I was getting into MK9. I played all of the other MK's... but you didn't need to know all of the complicated stuff. So I can relate. :16Bit

 

[Seretar]

It's a good feeling! I still need to learn how to punish, though. That and actually being able to do the combos I can do in practice mode in a real fight: I still have the tendency to panic-spam. =P

 

[TectonicSuperPlates]

The game does appeal to casuals, in terms of aesthetics and gameplay.
When casuals get to those who are competitive, it does not, because they know much more about how to play fighting games. It's a bit of a shame this kind of skill gap exists, but that's how FGs and certain games work.

What exactly are you trying to gain or extract out of this thread, Tectonic?

Simple. An understanding on how this game appeals to casuals. No one has yet to disprove that sitting back and zone spamming with Deathstroke or Sinestro will help against someone experienced who casually busts out 15 hit combos like it's their job to do it.

Casuals cannot win in this game against competitive players. I have video proof of this.

Do you get mad at the mechanic and think he's being an elitist just because he can fix a car though? No. He put in the time and effort so to him it's easy. You should respect what he's done. If you get mad that you can't fix a car like him, learn to fix the car. If it's too hard to fix the car on your own, ask for help or just have someone else fix it. You can't miraculously fix any car overnight. It'll take time, effort, and dedication. If you don't want to put in that time to fix the car, you shouldn't be upset when it stalls out.

Look. You're on this forum for a reason. You obviously take it a little bit more serious than the average casual if you're willing to make an account and ask the question. Find the players to help you and have fun with, but don't get mad at people who work harder at it or "get it" more than you do. That's how life works. I'm sure there's something that you can do that's wildly better than most people who are good at fighting games. Just accept it and have fun with the skill set you do have.

Of course you can learn. If you have the drive and desire to learn(and if you see the work as tedious can be another factor). But if you don't, what then? Are you seen as an idiot because you can't? Most elitists will call you a noob if you play casually, sitting back and zoning/spamming to try and win.

I'm not mad. At all. Why do people take questioning as automatic criticism? Questioning has a solid basis in trying to understand. That's what I am trying to do. Understand how exactly this game appeals to casuals in the long run. So far, it doesn't.

 

[MorbidAltruism]

Simple. An understanding on how this game appeals to casuals. No one has yet to disprove that sitting back and zone spamming with Deathstroke or Sinestro will help against someone experienced who casually busts out 15 hit combos like it's their job to do it.

Casuals cannot win in this game against competitive players. I have video proof of this.



Of course you can learn. If you have the drive and desire to learn(and if you see the work as tedious can be another factor). But if you don't, what then? Are you seen as an idiot because you can't? Most elitists will call you a noob if you play casually, sitting back and zoning/spamming to try and win.

I'm not mad. At all. Why do people take questioning as automatic criticism? Questioning has a solid basis in trying to understand. That's what I am trying to do. Understand how exactly this game appeals to casuals in the long run. So far, it doesn't.

Appeals to casuals in the long run? Yeah, I don't think that will happen. I honestly think most people will drop the game in another month maybe. That is usually what casuals do. They play it for a month or two, then move on to the next thing. The only thing that might keep the casuals around is the DLC. :16Bit

 

[Seretar]

Of course you can learn. If you have the drive and desire to learn(and if you see the work as tedious can be another factor). But if you don't, what then?

To be honest it hasn't taken me that long to get a significant amount better. I used to be beaten by everyone, and yesterday night after a few nights working on Superman I got a 12 win streak in survivor. That felt good! I cannot do more than about a 9-hit combo, but funnily I can now see how I might do one and it doesn't seem as difficult as it once did - all it is is connecting together strings and specials really. I find cancelling into specials quite tough still (cancelling into MB breath is infuriating, and I can never get heat vision to come out after the upward grab thing), but there's no doubt I am getting so much better.

 

[aldazo]

The game appeal to casuals? I think it does. Now about combos doing >40% damage, etc. I dont think it is a problem, if you're a casual player and fight a guy that pulls >40% damage combo then you're playing with a guy that have dedicate more time to learn the game and you can considered him a non-casual player, so you should try to improve your game or play with other same level casual players. I understand that you would like to be paired to everybody else without the need to learn such complicate combos but as I said before, if you haven't the time to practice or it is just that combos doesn't appeal to you then you should consider to play the game with guys that have the same preference as you or maybe looking for other games (the old games from the 90s are still very enjoyable and some are not combo driven). In my case I can do >40% damage combos and I consider myself a casual player, why? 'cause I usually play a couple of hours per week, but I spend some of that hours practicing combos and fortunately it is very easy to pull dial up combos compared to hit confirm combos (in a post above mine Shadoweb explains it well how hard is to do combos in Kof XIII compared to IGAU). To be honest my only issues is that there are chars that are OP at a casual level compared to other chars and that the mechanic of the game favors zoning compared to close combat, and zoning is very boring for me.

 

[TectonicSuperPlates]

To be honest it hasn't taken me that long to get a significant amount better. I used to be beaten by everyone, and yesterday night after a few nights working on Superman I got a 12 win streak in survivor. That felt good! I cannot do more than about a 9-hit combo, but funnily I can now see how I might do one and it doesn't seem as difficult as it once did - all it is is connecting together strings and specials really. I find cancelling into specials quite tough still (cancelling into MB breath is infuriating, and I can never get heat vision to come out after the upward grab thing), but there's no doubt I am getting so much better.

You know what my main issue is? Especially in Injustice, learning combos and timing doesn't feel fun. It feels tedious. It feels like "If you want to be good, you need to do it. You can't be good not knowing how to do it." And that's what I don't like.

I remember when I played SF4. I stuck to full fundamentals this one match with a friend of mine who busts out big combos very easily, and he's leagues better than I am. He's a competitive player. And guess what? I won. One match I beat him sticking to full fundamentals. I didn't have to know how to bust out big combos like he does. I could still win playing how I play. And it felt great.

I don't get that feel from Injustice.

 

[MorbidAltruism]

You know what my main issue is? Especially in Injustice, learning combos and timing doesn't feel fun. It feels tedious. It feels like "If you want to be good, you need to do it. You can't be good not knowing how to do it." And that's what I don't like.

I remember when I played SF4. I stuck to full fundamentals this one match with a friend of mine who busts out big combos very easily, and he's leagues better than I am. He's a competitive player. And guess what? I won. One match I beat him sticking to full fundamentals. I didn't have to know how to bust out big combos like he does. I could still win playing how I play. And it felt great.

I don't get that feel from Injustice.

You could also do the same in Tekken. SF and Tekken are more like pure fighters though. There is some obscure stuff that goes into learning Injustice. You could always just spam interactables. That stuff does full combo damage anyways.

 

[LazyActor14]

Casuals cannot win in this game against competitive players. I have video proof of this.

Well, yeah. That should be a given in anything. Should I be able to beat Bobby Fischer at chess because I think it would be more fun that way? If I went up to bat against the Yankees, should I hit a homer? If I grab a guitar and jump on stage next to Ozzy should I be seen as a rock god? Not at all. Saying a casual should have just as much chance of winning than a competitive player is absolutely ludicrous. In anything. That's why I assume you're mad. You keep saying you're upset that competitive players are better, but you can't do anything to beat them. Well. That's life. Either find players who are your level, or accept the losses.

I don't want to be the harsh guy that says "learn the game or quit." I hate that attitude and I've been there. You just have to realize some things work and some don't. For instance, I can't for the life of me play 3D fighters, UMVC3, or KOFXIII. Am I mad about it? Not really. If I put in the time I'm sure I could, but they just don't appeal to me enough to want to have a chance. Injustice, MK9, SSF4 on the other hand I think are a blast. I love the flavor and mechanics and enjoy figuring out new things. So I stick with them and try to get better. Like I said before, find what you like and then you should have the drive to stick with it. If you don't have the drive and expect to win off a 3 hit combo against someone who's poured X amount of hours into practice mode, then you're nuts. I'm sorry to say it like that, but that's it.

I don't think you're an idiot. Like I said, I'm pretty casual myself. At best I think I've gotten a 41% Harley combo. Otherwise mine are usually in the 20-30 range. And those are usually 2 hits, b3, j2 and another hit. That's simple. Think of it this way: Yeah, you can't do 50%+ combos. But if you can consistently pull out 20-30, you only have to touch the opponent 4 times to win a round. That's a lot less intimidating.

You know what my main issue is? Especially in Injustice, learning combos and timing doesn't feel fun. It feels tedious. It feels like "If you want to be good, you need to do it. You can't be good not knowing how to do it." And that's what I don't like.

There's the issue right there. If you're just straight up not having fun, then don't play it. I'm sorry, but that's it. Stick with SF4 and maybe SFxT then. No one's forcing you to play if you're not enjoying it.

 

[aldazo]

Casuals cannot win in this game against competitive players. I have video proof of this.

It should be better if all the players get at the same level without to much learning, but we have to admit that if a guy spend 3 hours a day playing and practicing combos and footsies etc then he has earned some right to be better at the game.

 

[TheTHCGamer]

I think ALL fighting games can appeal to casuals as long as they find a reason to like it but the real question is how many casuals will actually spend time to actually get good at the game? You dont have to be an expert to enjoy even the most hardcore fighting games but fighting games unfortunately have this stigma of you have to be an expert to enjoy it. Every fighting game can be enjoyed at all levels of play you dont have to be an expert to enjoy a fighting game and a big problem i feel is learning to accept losing. People cant stand losing especially in a 1 0n 1 environment like in a fighting game.

What i tell people is i get my ass kicked all the time but guess what if i keep losing to a certain tactic im the type of person who wants to learn how to beat that tactic. I think one aspect that the FGC doesnt focus on enough is being able to accept losing. In team games for example its easier to blame teammates but when you lose in a fighting game you have no one to blame except yourself. The problem is a lot of people dont want to blame themselves for the loss so they blame the game instead. Its discouraging to keep losing especially if your new to fighting games but those players need to know losing isnt the end of the world instead its a vital part of the learning process.

Anyway long live fighting games.

 

[aldazo]

Appeals to casuals in the long run? Yeah, I don't think that will happen. I honestly think most people will drop the game in another month maybe. That is usually what casuals do. They play it for a month or two, then move on to the next thing. The only thing that might keep the casuals around is the DLC. :16Bit

Thats not entirely true, I spend at least 2 hours every weekend playing KOF XIII with my brother at a casual level (at least I consider it casual) and we enjoyed it a lot, never playing just to win but mostly to get fun (if winning while doing at better of course ) .

 

[TectonicSuperPlates]

I actually love Injustice. Again, the feel of the DC comics environment and characters, the fact that it's a fighting game, I love it all.

Street Fighter is one of my least liked fighters.

Lol funny. It seems as though the fighters that are the most difficult are the one's that I like the most. KOF 13. Injustice. Combo heavy fighters. And I have no idea how to bust out big time combos. Lol.

 

[MorbidAltruism]

Thats not entirely true, I spend at least 2 hours every weekend playing KOF XIII with my brother at a casual level (at least I consider it casual) and we enjoyed it a lot, never playing just to win but mostly to get fun (if winning while doing at better of course ) .

Yeah. Playing for fun is the best thing. I just don't think that MOST casuals have fun after a month or two. It just gets too repetitive for most of them. :16Bit

 

[Drumslinger]

I can't say the mechanics in this game are different or the same as any other game because I just don't have the experience needed to qualify that statement. I can say that I feel it is very combo-centric. But I don't view the people that are good at that, or that have grown up with that as elitist any more than I view my friends who write code for a living, or the kids who have grown up learning code since middle school as elitist. Elitism is more of an attitude.

I will say this. This game is the first one in a long time I've felt the desire to practice and take the time to learn about. In that respect it's like anything else worth doing. I play and practice every day and it's paying off.

At this point I actually wish there was a competitive scene within 300 miles of where I live. Not driving to Atlanta to get my butt handed to me by Pig.

Still practicing tho.

 

[aldazo]

You know what my main issue is? Especially in Injustice, learning combos and timing doesn't feel fun. It feels tedious. It feels like "If you want to be good, you need to do it. You can't be good not knowing how to do it." And that's what I don't like.

You nailed it. But what can we tell you? Thats how fighting games are nowadays. If you want to win and be competitively then you have to spend some time, for some persons like me it feels a LOT of time, for others it feels not much.

 

[aldazo]

Yeah. Playing for fun is the best thing. I just don't think that MOST casuals have fun after a month or two. It just gets too repetitive for most of them. :16Bit

I should recommend you to spice your game with a good amount of brother's trash talking and pop off.... Is it poop off or pop off?

 

[MorbidAltruism]

I should recommend you to spice your game with a good amount of brother's trash talking and pop off.... Is it poop off or pop off?

I don't even know what a pop off is...

 

[aldazo]

I don't even know what a pop off is...

What 16 bit usually does when win a fight, I think there is a gift, let me find it...
EDIT: This is a good example, (but I should warn you, do it just if you know the person, dont do it to strangers or you can get in troubles )