About the "No Nerfs, Just Buffs" Thing...

[RYX]

Certain things have already unjustly been nerfed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sinestro had a couple strings (B1-3 for example) that were safe on block, which was perfectly fine. He's a low damage character, and since the day one patch, none of his strings are safe on block. This ruins his up close game against any player worth half their salt (pun optional).
Hawkgirl, before the day one patch, could convert her D1 into her Wing Evade xx 3. She is a pretty low damage character as well, and something like this could make her better (not greatly so, but then again, why was it such a problem in the first place?), but it was removed. Other characters have far more punishing moves than Hawkgirl that remain in the game.

I don't see the reasoning in either case to nerf those characters, but they were. I'm not a developer, so I can't really judge what should and shouldn't be tweaked, but I personally feel those adjustments in particular were unnecessary.

Hawkgirl can D1 Wing Evade 2 and be at advantage if I remember right. Lot of cancel advantage.

 

[JLU51306]

Hawkgirl can D1 Wing Evade 2 and be at advantage if I remember right. Lot of cancel advantage.

Whoops. Meant Wing Evade xx 2. She can't do that one, but she can do 3.

 

[colt]

I dont mind interactables anymore its just the damage i hate. Most of them do over 20% which is ridiculous. I think they should be half the damage personally. somewhere between 10-15% at the most.

MOST??? 11 out of 184 do over 20%... i guess that's most in some realities?

 

[Chengler]

I wouldn't mind supermans F23 being -6 or something. Same with KFs slide.

Such brainless crap is too brainless and good.

 

[RYX]

I wouldn't mind supermans F23 being -6 or something. Same with KFs slide.

Such brainless crap is too brainless and good.

Both can be whiff punished and Killer Frost's slide can be beaten by jump attacks. A safe slide is necessary to Killer Frost's survival according to those who play her, so making it punishable on top of her lackluster normals could very well be her downfall.

These things really aren't difficult to adapt to. Consult the character forums/specialists if you really struggle so much.

 

[Chengler]

Both can be whiff punished and Killer Frost's slide can be beaten by jump attacks. A safe slide is necessary to Killer Frost's survival according to those who play her, so making it punishable on top of her lackluster normals could very well be her downfall.

These things really aren't difficult to adapt to. Consult the character forums/specialists if you really struggle so much.

Everything can be wiff punished pretty much, and superman hardly uses F23 for random shits and giggles. Its fast, safe and advances pretty well, and leads into his BnBs and trait.

As for the slide, I would hardly call -6 punishable. At least get rid of her 50/50 after a blocked slide.

 

[RYX]

Everything can be wiff punished pretty much, and superman hardly uses F23 for random shits and giggles. Its fast, safe and advances pretty well, and leads into his BnBs and trait.

As for the slide, I would hardly call -6 punishable. At least get rid of her 50/50 after a blocked slide.

Of course everything can be whiff punished. That's the idea. Bait them into using it.

 

[Chengler]

Of course everything can be whiff punished. That's the idea. Bait them into using it.

That defense can be said of every move ever though. Its saying 'no nerfs ever'.

 

[RYX]

That defense can be said of every move ever though. Its saying 'no nerfs ever'.

That's not true at all. These moves do not break the game and they would suffer without the advantage of safety on these.

Cyborg having an infinite full screen is something that needs to be changed. This does break the rules of the game. A safe advancing move, however annoying, does not.

 

[Chengler]

That's not true at all. These moves do not break the game and they would suffer without the advantage of safety on these.

Cyborg having an infinite full screen is something that needs to be changed. This does break the rules of the game. A safe advancing move, however annoying, does not.

Its not about looking at it from an individual move perspective. Its about broader context.

The fact that KF can voretx you from the slide, and put you back in the vortex after you block her slide, is the problem. If it just led to combos, I'd be cool with it. I'd be frosty.

 

[RYX]

Its not about looking at it from an individual move perspective. Its about broader context.

The fact that KF can voretx you from the slide, and put you back in the vortex after you block her slide, is the problem. If it just led to combos, I'd be cool with it. I'd be frosty.

Plenty of characters have vortexes. Deathstroke can vortex you with a 50/50, end into Sword Flip and repeat.

If the other moves are supposedly the problem then why nerf the one she needs? Especially when you can expend one bar and only one to end the thing altogether?

 

[Chengler]

Plenty of characters have vortexes. Deathstroke can vortex you with a 50/50, end into Sword Flip and repeat.

If the other moves are supposedly the problem then why nerf the one she needs? Especially when you can expend one bar and only one to end the thing altogether?

Does deathstrokes vortex come from a move which is 50 trillion invulnerability frames on wake up, advancing. hit box lowering, low hitting and safe?

You can push block deathstroke away. Push block frost? She'll slide back in. And the moment you block that slide, you're back in that 50/50 situation.

 

[RYX]

Does deathstrokes vortex come from a move which is 50 trillion invulnerability frames on wake up, advancing. hit box lowering, low hitting and safe?

You can push block deathstroke away. Push block frost? She'll slide back in. And the moment you block that slide, you're back in that 50/50 situation.

You can armor her for a full combo. Moves that are faster will beat it out in a neutral situation.

Perhaps you should stop letting them put you in these situations.

 

[Chengler]

You can armor her for a full combo. Moves that are faster will beat it out in a neutral situation.

Perhaps you should stop letting them put you in these situations.

You can't armor on reaction and armor only starts after a few frames. Its not instant.

If you try to armor KF out of her sliding, you're gonna waste a lot of meter for a lot of nothing.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Does deathstrokes vortex come from a move which is 50 trillion invulnerability frames on wake up, advancing. hit box lowering, low hitting and safe?

You can push block deathstroke away. Push block frost? She'll slide back in. And the moment you block that slide, you're back in that 50/50 situation.

Neutral jump her slide or armour B3 it.
Without her slide, she is nothing.

You can't armor on reaction and armor only starts after a few frames. Its not instant.

If you try to armor KF out of her sliding, you're gonna waste a lot of meter for a lot of nothing.

This isnt true.

 

[Soul Bound X]

KF is fine.

 

[Chengler]

Neutral jump her slide or armour B3 it.
Without her slide, she is nothing.



This isnt true.

Well excuse me for not being a machine, I'm not good enough to armor on reaction

 

[Dulllyanna]

lol making Superman f23 worse on block sure would make a difference considering he can easily confirm it into an airtight +1 on block special. And somehow Killer Frost isn't dominating everybody despite this supposedly busted to shit slide, almost as if she has issues controlling space on the upper half of the screen. Take that away and there's very little justification for using her over other characters with more abusable and often very safe tools (That are still nonetheless beatable within reason).

Outside of blatantly busted or buggy stuff (Cyborg infinite lockdown, DD 7% on block chip string), the game needs to breathe for a while and the cast needs to be understood more fully before really screwing around with them.

 

[RYX]

You can't armor on reaction and armor only starts after a few frames. Its not instant.

If you try to armor KF out of her sliding, you're gonna waste a lot of meter for a lot of nothing.

It is active at 8 frames. Slide is active at 15 in the nearest possible range. You can armor it.

In regards to armored bounces.

 

[PND_Mustard]

Well excuse me for not being a machine, I'm not good enough to armor on reaction

So essentially you're saying it needs to be tweaked because it's too hard to punish, even though you acknowledge that it can be done?

that's the wrong mentality.

 

[Chengler]

It is active at 8 frames. Slide is active at 15 in the nearest possible range. You can armor it.

In regards to armored bounces.

I can't react in a quarter of a second man. You ask too much.

 

[Chengler]

So essentially you're saying it needs to be tweaked because it's too hard to punish, even though you acknowledge that it can be done?

that's the wrong mentality.

I ask you to find me one person who can react to something within a quarter of a second.

 

[PND_Mustard]

I ask you to find me one person who can react to something within a quarter of a second.

point blank? no way, max slide range where she can "spam" it? alot of players lol.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I ask you to find me one person who can react to something within a quarter of a second.

Theres always the option of making the read if your reactions are slow, you could also just charge B3 and cancel if they dont slide.

 

[RYX]

Sometimes I can't tell if someone legitimately needs help or is just looking for something to be upset about.