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The Truth About Nerfing and Buffing: Let's be Real

Rabbit

Rabbit

thugs bunny
The only way to really please casual gamers with a fighter is to make a Rock Em Sock Em Robots game.

Even then I could see people saying the blue robot is cheap and they just make them both the same color. :rolleyes:
 
Reactions: Jy0
Axel_Redd

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
i don't know why people keep saying call of duty is easy....some of the stuff i've seen people do on there looks damn near impossible like tossing knives over buildings and getting kills. I honestly don't like call of duty cuz the fan boy's don't stfu about it and think its the greatest thing ever.

also, who cares what the casual players think is OP. They're talking about things that they don't understand in the slightest. They're not gonna get serious in the game so it shouldn't matter at all really.
 
Rabbit

Rabbit

thugs bunny
Axel_Redd said:
i don't know why people keep saying call of duty is easy.
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Because the game was made to be easy.
Doesn't mean it doesn't take any skill to play at a high level but the same thing could be said about any game that could be competitive.
 
Setsuna

Setsuna

Noob
Jy0 said:
netcode is problem here not DS... much worse is out there. in 4 months when these people aren't playing anyway and only fairly decent ppl r you will see it I suppose
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yea, the input delay or not registering commands at all are things cheap Deathstrokers benefit the most from.

i dont get how so many people here want to protect these kind of players though. they re the cheapest. nobody likes them, they re bad players exploiting a weakness of the game. and all this with little to no effort, compared to the precise timing of blocking, walking, blocking, ~40% comboing... another character have to do.


you say, fuck the scrubs. they should learn the game. but the truth is you re only protecting the worst of all scrubs who dont learn the game at all and spam the same moves over and over again. why dont you say THEY should learn how to play the game and show a bit more effort.
wouldnt that make more sense? :3
 
Jy0

Jy0

Destroyer of Lazy
Setsuna said:
yea, the input delay or not registering commands at all are things cheap Deathstrokers benefit the most from.

i dont get how so many people here want to protect these kind of players though. they re the cheapest. nobody likes them, they re bad players exploiting a weakness of the game. and all this with little to no effort, compared to the precise timing of blocking, walking, blocking, ~40% comboing... another character have to do.


you say, fuck the scrubs. they should learn the game. but the truth is you re only protecting the worst of all scrubs who dont learn the game at all and spam the same moves over and over again. why dont you say THEY should learn how to play the game and show a bit more effort.
wouldnt that make more sense? :3
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I do say that. I don't have a problem with DS scrubs... I can beat them. I use multiple different tactics to counter their gunshots and have learned how to punish them with my main characters. Whenever in a lobby with me they quit out. I've offered them assistance they declined. He's a good zoner. He's not even the best one in the game. I really don't know why he's gotton so much salt except that a lot of people are getting really lazy. His guns are unsafe... they don't push you back. they are quick to come out though... so he's good... but not really great.
 
LOCO

LOCO

DADDY BARAKA
deathstroke problem and every other problem for casuals can be handled in a different way other than nerfing.
If they started adding filters and a search engine to find matches where deathstroke wasn't on a playercard or something like that

of course this probaly won't happen but itd be the best way to cater to all skill levels, you pick and choose your own fights

a filter always cleans shit, why not put one in a fighting game? someday they'll get it right
 
PoweredbyProtein

PoweredbyProtein

Eternal student
LOCO said:
deathstroke problem and every other problem for casuals can be handled in a different way other than nerfing.
If they started adding filters and a search engine to find matches where deathstroke wasn't on a playercard or something like that

of course this probaly won't happen but itd be the best way to cater to all skill levels, you pick and choose your own fights

a filter always cleans shit, why not put one in a fighting game? someday they'll get it right
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There is something similar to that in BlazBlue and P4U. You can set the lobby to ask players that use certain characters not to join. You can view their card to see their most used character, W\L with them, and number of times used. Can't you also do that in injustice though? Casuals could just kick players that use DS.
 
Setsuna

Setsuna

Noob
Jy0 said:
I do say that. I don't have a problem with DS scrubs... I can beat them. I use multiple different tactics to counter their gunshots and have learned how to punish them with my main characters. Whenever in a lobby with me they quit out. I've offered them assistance they declined. He's a good zoner. He's not even the best one in the game. I really don't know why he's gotton so much salt except that a lot of people are getting really lazy. His guns are unsafe... they don't push you back. they are quick to come out though... so he's good... but not really great.
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well, i guess you re one of these top 2% then.
again, an AAA game has to be balanced for more people than just a few hundreds. plus a small fix would be for the better for everyone except the spammers.
 
T

Throwback

Noob
CrimsonShadow said:
You cannot balance a game like this either for the 100% harcore most knowledgeble players, or for the 100% casual Farmville gamers; the balance is a 'balance' and it has to sit somewhere in the middle of those two.
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Bollocks. Casuals buy the game based on presentation, marketing and importantly, the buzz from the pros (pros get hype, wannabes get hype, that filters to casuals). Once they have the game, casuals will leave for the nearest reason they can grab. What brings them back over and over to spend on the latest round of DLC is the tournament scene.

The money follows the pro scene, just like every other skillful endeavour on the planet.
 
H

Hexin_Wishes

Likes nerds with big ...
Sorry to burst your bubble, but not a lot of casuals care for the tournament scene to be honest. However, I won't deny the pro hyper trickling down through wannabe hype to casual gamer hype.

Because that's usually how things survive...through word of mouth from everyone. Not specifically the pros.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Throwback said:
Bollocks. Casuals buy the game based on presentation, marketing and importantly, the buzz from the pros (pros get hype, wannabes get hype, that filters to casuals). Once they have the game, casuals will leave for the nearest reason they can grab. What brings them back over and over to spend on the latest round of DLC is the tournament scene.

The money follows the pro scene, just like every other skillful endeavour on the planet.
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Except that's not true. Before I ever set foot on a competitive gaming site, I played Street Fighter 2 Turbo and Championship Edition, MK1, Mk2, Mk3, MK4, UMK3, MK Trilogy, Soul Blade, Soul Calibur 1-3, Tekken 1-3, Tag, and 5, Street Fighter 4, Super Smash Bros, Killer Instinct, Clayfighter 63 1/3, Xmen vs. Street Fighter, MvC 1+2.

I played many of these games well beyond their expiration dates, and continued to play the classic ones I owned online w/ ZSNES, MAME etc.

Why? Because I love fighting games. I was technically a 'casual' at all of them. I had no clue about tech, frames, matchups at that point. It was just a genre I liked. Between arcades and home systems I'd spent more money on fighting games than all the other genres combined before I ever had a clue what a 'dash cancel' was.

Lumping every single non-professional fighting game player in with CoD zombies is silly in my opinion, and totally disregards the fact that there's a diverse and highly loyal audience for these kinds of games.
 
DJ L Toro

DJ L Toro

Champion
got a little over a page in before i decided to skip the squabbling and post:

Injustice is a pretty accessible game and NRS provided plenty of tools to figure out how to play better and how to play against any characters you're having trouble with. That being said, i dont think people should be rewarded for complaining because they dont want to use those tools. Ok, i get that zoning annoys casual gamers, but if you nerf away zoning then you have just fucked over your competitive scene which is an even faster way to kill your game. Tournament players are known by casual players to be good players generally, so if a tournament player tells her or his friends that a game is ass then they wont play it. Also, what's the first thing any casual player tries to find in a fighting game? Fireballs. real talk, if you're a casual player and you dont know how to shoot a fireball you're a scrub (to casual players). If all you know how to do is shoot fireballs you become a spammer or cheap (to them). The difference between these and zoning is that zoning is actually strategic play that is determined by all of your character's tools, not just your fireball. this is where better players start to figure out things like game mechanics.

What you're suggesting, far as i can tell, is to sacrifice balanced game mechanics for the sake of indulging scrubs. That should never be done because it hurts both casual and competitive players.

NRS did something great here when they put in the frame data. If there;s something casual players are complaining is cheap, they have no reason they cant just look at the frame data and see if it really is that bad. sorry, but something that's -15 isnt cheap or spammy. something you can reversal from anywhere on the screen isnt cheap or spammy. etc.

You'd be lying to yourself if you say that the game, as it is now, is difficult to pick up and enjoy for non-tournament players. The point is to make it accessible, but not easy to master. that means you cant just patch stuff that people who havent put in the effort to master the game bitch about because it's still accessible for them.
 
K

Komatose

The Prettiest
I'm still trying to figure out why threads like this are being made. I love you Crimson, but damn son... You fuckin up.
 
MorbidAltruism

MorbidAltruism

Get over here!
EMP Villain said:
I'm still trying to figure out why threads like this are being made. I love you Crimson, but damn son... You fuckin up.
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No. He has a realistic perspective and has experienced both the casual and hardcore communities. He speaks the truth. You can choose not to believe it, but in the end it wont change anything.
 
K

Komatose

The Prettiest
MorbidAltruism said:
No. He has a realistic perspective and has experienced both the casual and hardcore communities. He speaks the truth. You can choose not to believe it, but in the end it wont change anything.
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Believe what? There is nothing to believe. You either agree or you don't. And I agree with only portions of what he said. Definitely not all of it though. But that's just me.
 
Reactions: Jy0
Jy0

Jy0

Destroyer of Lazy
In the end DS isn't even a problem in this game. I've yet to say this because I don't wanna insult anyone but if you are having a real problem with DS compared to some of the other stuff in this game then you really need to level up. There is a fully functional practice mode in this game and I'm reasonable sure that ppl on the DS forum will help you train... hell I will. enough already
 
MorbidAltruism

MorbidAltruism

Get over here!
EMP Villain said:
Believe what? There is nothing to believe. You either agree or you don't. And I agree with only portions of what he said. Definitely not all of it though. But that's just me.
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Believe was bad word choice on my part. Either way, it seems like he made a simple statement... You cant satisfy everyone. It didn't seem like a multilayered discussion to me. The point was clear and concise.
 
K

Komatose

The Prettiest
MorbidAltruism said:
Believe was bad word choice on my part. Either way, it seems like he made a simple statement... You cant satisfy everyone. It didn't seem like a multilayered discussion to me. The point was clear and concise.
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And because of that I am not allowed to disagree? Lol
 
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