The Truth About Nerfing and Buffing: Let's be Real

[DreadzTsung]

Ok. This is whacky Af. These games are kinda made for high level ski players. If scrubs can't avoid zoning and other aspects of a game, level up, and enjoy it then fuck them. Like for real. I'm getting tired of this complaining. This is a repost of a post I made in my thread:

Please quit the crying about deathstroke. First, why nerf a character that's not even that hard to punish. I have a way harder time with Characters that have great mixups. To be honest he's not even that great at zoning. Yeah you can stand in one spot and shoot guns all day. But it actually takes a good patient player to play him correctly.

Secondly, you want to nerf a character that is already extremely punishable? And God forbid if you miss your db2 anti-air. The punish is ridiculous. Sure we can nerf deathstroke.(not really) Then nerf superman's unblockable laser beam and raven's full screen ermac like move. Oh and let's not forget black Adam's magic which you can get full combo off fullscreen and move in with a dash that's better Sektor's and Csz's dash combined.

Thirdly, it is rude as a mofherfucker to nerf a character that some good players have already worked hard on. Just because you don't want to level up and avoid deathstroke's zoning doesn't mean he needs to be toned down. There are bigger zoners to worry about. And you are crying about a few bullets. You should have cried back in MK when Kenshi was intangibly pushing people out of the goddamn universe with his fucking telekinesis. We have to do better here people. Even doomsday is punishable. Why do you think NRS hasn't patched him yet?

Fourth, how the hell would you feel if NRS nerfed your character? Bad right? For some it could be a reason they bought the game. Just for a character. I main joker and Quinn and just picked up deathstroke yesterday.(gun fever) I use to be in the Deathstroke depression crowd for pussies until I realized he is not that bad. And he gets punished severely. That's why it takes time to play this character the right way. Once you learn to get around his guns he is free. Unless you are playing a good deathstroke. Which is where I'm trying to get with him. I know if joker and Quinn were nerfed because of certain reasons. I would probably sell the game or unfortunately play someone I didn't want to.

In closing, think about other people and put yourself in their shoes. Don't request random nerfs just because you can't beat a character. Level the fuck up. This "nerf" thing is really getting out of hand, getting old, and in most cases is unnecessary. Why fuck up a game that is well balanced? This is a complete total upgrade from mk(and don't forget the awesome NETCODE) And yet we are still ungrateful. Lets all just level up and shut the hell up.

I'm with m2dave and his Deatstroke anti-nerf coalition. Come join us.

Here is the link-- http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/the-deathstroke-anti-nerf-coalition.30791/

Sincerely, DreadzTsung aka Kunai

Youtube: Strat10100

 

[G4S MinotaurLord]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting shit here, but I think this thread got way off base. CS' original post to me seemed more oriented towards HOW developers nerf games and less oriented towards how developers SHOULD nerf games. It read like an objective analysis of "this is how developers likely think when discussing how and why to patch a game." What followed were 7 pages of bashing, supporting, and more bashing of this as a view.

I think the overall point that has largely been tossed under the rug at this point is that, despite what would be healthiest for the tournament scene, NRS' plan will probably consider gamers from all walks of life. It's not a should/shouldn't argument, and those of you that turned it into one should go back to your nerf/buff threads. People attacking the OP need to get their eyes checked because the post isn't demanding nerfs or agreeing with "casuals" who can't evolve - it's simply saying that the dev's will likely take onlines, casuals, and tournament players opinions into consideration. Hell, CS even said that it's too early for nerfs/buffs.

tl;dr: learn to read (and understand the difference between objective conjecture and salt-infused rhetoric).

 

[DreadzTsung]

Maybe I'm misinterpreting shit here, but I think this thread got way off base. CS' original post to me seemed more oriented towards HOW developers nerf games and less oriented towards how developers SHOULD nerf games. It read like an objective analysis of "this is how developers likely think when discussing how and why to patch a game." What followed were 7 pages of bashing, supporting, and more bashing of this as a view.

I think the overall point that has largely been tossed under the rug at this point is that, despite what would be healthiest for the tournament scene, NRS' plan will probably consider gamers from all walks of life. It's not a should/shouldn't argument, and those of you that turned it into one should go back to your nerf/buff threads. People attacking the OP need to get their eyes checked because the post isn't demanding nerfs or agreeing with "casuals" who can't evolve - it's simply saying that the dev's will likely take onlines, casuals, and tournament players opinions into consideration. Hell, CS even said that it's too early for nerfs/buffs.

tl;dr: learn to read (and understand the difference between objective conjecture and salt-infused rhetoric).

Ha ur funny. I wasn't attacking him I was attacking the ones who want to nerf DS. Well tally ho.....

 

[Tom Brady]

The problem is people crying for nerfs...

Crying for nerfs is a worse problem then a ranking system where you go from 8 to 3 without playing in almost 6 months. Crying for, and then waiting for the nerfs stops people from learning to deal with things. Rather than learn how to fight something, they just decide.. "ehhh.. I'll avoid it for now or just cry cheap anytime I play one of these guys, I'm just waiting for it to get patched out". People online decide to avoid these "cheap spammers using a broken character" until a patch nerfs the character. We should not be a community that sits paitently waiting for nerfs rather than actually taking things in the lab with an open mind that its US thats the issue and not the character we are facing.

Lets also not forget Kabal and Kenshi.... Those 2 characters were not cried about until AFTER the final patch. Yup, the community cried about all the other "cheap" stuff but not Kabal or Kenshi until it was too late. What happened was that now, there were no characters left to fight them, making MK9 ridiculously unfair. When you cry for nerfs, you will ALWAYS miss something, something will ALWAYS slip under the radar. By nerfing so much, one thing goes unchecked, and now there are no characters left to combat it.

A community who doesn't learn from its history is doomed to repeat it. I doubt anyone wants that..

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I agree -- I don't think anyone should be crying for nerfs at this point, besides obvious stuff. It's far too early.

 

[Setsuna]

I would have loved to see a video of that fight. see how many mistakes u made against that bad deathstroke player.

can tell you my mistakes if you re interested. i started with a J2 while he was doing the sword flip. ok, can happen, nothing lost yet.
then he jumps back and starts his spamming. i do my block... walk... block...walk.... before i m close enough to attack he jumps away. ok, another mistake. i should ve react better and faster. then the same thing, block.... walk... etc. this time i m ready to attack but instead of running away he does his sword flip, i block it somehow but cant punish because of input delay. the attack comes out when he s out of range again and i eat 2 bursts.
next time i was close enough he uses that water interactable in Atlantis. @ this time he has already built some meter and uses it which fucks up my block.... walk rhythm. again, this might be my fault but it s a joke how easy it is for a DS player to control the flow of the game while any little mistake i do is deadly. the online lag doesnt help either.
i do understand that it s that hard when playing on a high level in a tournament against top players and offline. but online DS is a free win against certain characters and that is what this thread was about.

maybe i should just change my main and the problem is gone, but i dont have problems against any other characters although some of you say other chars are even better than DS or better zoners.
i guess there is a reason why hardly anyone plays Shazam and i cant find videos with him =/

 

[DreadzTsung]

can tell you my mistakes if you re interested. i started with a J2 while he was doing the sword flip. ok, can happen, nothing lost yet.
then he jumps back and starts his spamming. i do my block... walk... block...walk.... before i m close enough to attack he jumps away. ok, another mistake. i should ve react better and faster. then the same thing, block.... walk... etc. this time i m ready to attack but instead of running away he does his sword flip, i block it somehow but cant punish because of input delay. the attack comes out when he s out of range again and i eat 2 bursts.
next time i was close enough he uses that water interactable in Atlantis. @ this time he has already built some meter and uses it which fucks up my block.... walk rhythm. again, this might be my fault but it s a joke how easy it is for a DS player to control the flow of the game while any little mistake i do is deadly. the online lag doesnt help either.
i do understand that it s that hard when playing on a high level in a tournament against top players and offline. but online DS is a free win against certain characters and that is what this thread was about.

maybe i should just change my main and the problem is gone, but i dont have problems against any other characters although some of you say other chars are even better than DS or better zoners.
i guess there is a reason why hardly anyone plays Shazam and i cant find videos with him =/

I play a lil shazam. I could show you some things to avoid zoners. At least ill try to help. You on psn and do you have mic? If not we can text chat.

 

[Setsuna]

I play a lil shazam. I could show you some things to avoid zoners. At least ill try to help. You on psn and do you have mic? If not we can text chat.

yes, that would be nice. dont have mic though. i ll sent you my psn

 

[Hellbringer]

can tell you my mistakes if you re interested. i started with a J2 while he was doing the sword flip. ok, can happen, nothing lost yet.
then he jumps back and starts his spamming. i do my block... walk... block...walk.... before i m close enough to attack he jumps away. ok, another mistake. i should ve react better and faster. then the same thing, block.... walk... etc. this time i m ready to attack but instead of running away he does his sword flip, i block it somehow but cant punish because of input delay. the attack comes out when he s out of range again and i eat 2 bursts.
next time i was close enough he uses that water interactable in Atlantis. @ this time he has already built some meter and uses it which fucks up my block.... walk rhythm. again, this might be my fault but it s a joke how easy it is for a DS player to control the flow of the game while any little mistake i do is deadly. the online lag doesnt help either.
i do understand that it s that hard when playing on a high level in a tournament against top players and offline. but online DS is a free win against certain characters and that is what this thread was about.

maybe i should just change my main and the problem is gone, but i dont have problems against any other characters although some of you say other chars are even better than DS or better zoners.
i guess there is a reason why hardly anyone plays Shazam and i cant find videos with him =/

Try dashing instead of walking. You play shazam right? I havent tested his dash but i think u can dash between his gunshots. One dash gets u midscreen. If his dash isnt good, try his teleport. Just play around.
If u want add me we can test abit in the lab.

 

[DreadzTsung]

yes, that would be nice. dont have mic though. i ll sent you my psn

Ok. Here are some tips tho. I won't be home till. A lil later.


Shazam

-Dbf1 is unblockable.(unless armored or crouching.
-db1 is unblockable.(unless armored or standing)
-b2 clears distance fast and a dbf1 can be used right after for instant combo(although b2 is punishable).
-His corner combos are amazing.(especially 112 with his character trait)
-his character trait only increases damage on hands. (At least that's what I think).
-once in on your opponent, his d1 db1 is very good. (Most opponents seem to crouch and try to counter poke after you. If they do crouch you can 1 db1 into combo. However if they don't crouch or if they stand after they poke and you try to grab. That leaves you vulnerable for a big combo.
-please remember his teleport can be used to move in and around but not against zoners like deathstroke,sinestro,
Raven,etc. you can teleport but not like if it was bad zoning character trying to zone.
-if you can teleport close enough you can go for a combo right out if the teleport.
-Teleport can be very punishable.
-a good strain on a blocking opponent is 22 dbf1 since they have no time to react before the grab.

 

[Setsuna]

Try dashing instead of walking. You play shazam right? I havent tested his dash but i think u can dash between his gunshots. One dash gets u midscreen. If his dash isnt good, try his teleport. Just play around.
If u want add me we can test abit in the lab.

thx u too, but i see you re on xbl and i m on psn

about his teleport: it s amazing against many characters but terrible against DS.

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

THOSE DAYS, LMAO

 

[Rude]

So...I see a lot of shitting on casual players here. And it makes absolutely no sense. At. All.

We all started casually at some point. We eventually became more serious and learned how FGs worked. Did it ever occur to anyone that casuals becoming more interested in the game is how you GROW your player base? That teaching casuals, making a game easy to learn, can help your community grow and thus increase tournament attendance? Which, in turn, would allow the games you love to continue being put on the EVO circuit?

A community that is isolated and cut-off from accepting people who are casual and guiding them is one that will peter off.

A lot of you are looking at balancing from the perspective of players, not from the perspective of game designers/businessmen. I'm sorry..but the money you spend to travel...the entry fees...NRS sees none of that. So what is their interest in EXCLUSIVELY supporting that? There is no profit. In order for a business to be successful, they need to make a profit. The only money they make off you is from DLC and the game purchase itself. Technically, they don't have to patch at all if they don't want to.

I see a lot of entitlement going on, here.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

NO! MAKE SHAZAM S TIER AND NERF EVERYONE ELSE SO I CAN ENJOY THE GAME WITH MY FAVORITE DC HERO. (Excluding Dr. Manhattan because I'm totally indifferent about having him in the game)

Or, you know, make venom non-parryable. Then I could just play Doomsday in every match up.

Edit: I didn't know that there was already a discussion about Shazam going on. That was completely by chance. Carry on.

 

[Protagonist_1]

Well, when you make a game that's relatively easy to pick up for casuals, you can't expect NRS not to appeal to them lol (referring to both mk9 and injustice). It's the price you pay pretty much. I play of lot of Tekken and KOF, both of these games don't appeal to casuals, so they don't get patched every month, however they have a small tourney scene and are seen as boring/too hard. Not easy trying to appeal to casuals and tourney players, not to mention the various styles of tourney players/casuals (zoning, rushdown, practice heads, execution monsters/etc).

 

[Sami]

THOSE DAYS, LMAO

Nice necro

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

But it's not the sheep within the masses testing the games tho...the DLC swindles in turning $60 games into $100 are for the sheep however. Nah,..still think the balances are for that 1% because the rest simply dont give a fuck nor care to notice.

 

[trustinme]

NO! MAKE SHAZAM S TIER AND NERF EVERYONE ELSE SO I CAN ENJOY THE GAME WITH MY FAVORITE DC HERO. (Excluding Dr. Manhattan because I'm totally indifferent about having him in the game)

Or, you know, make venom non-parryable. Then I could just play Doomsday in every match up.

Edit: I didn't know that there was already a discussion about Shazam going on. That was completely by chance. Carry on.

shazam is your favourite dc hero? U fucking pervert.

 

[Rathalos]

But it's not the sheep within the masses testing the games tho...the DLC swindles in turning $60 games into $100 are for the sheep however. Nah,..still think the balances are for that 1% because the rest simply dont give a fuck nor care to notice.

Depends on the balance and the character.

Vanilla Deathstroke and pre release Scorpion caused a lot of casual to straight up stop playing.

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

lol I remember Scorpi-gate

 

[THTB]

Depends on the balance and the character.

Vanilla Deathstroke and pre release Scorpion caused a lot of casual to straight up stop playing.

And they still do. Even if they were massively nerfed.

Casual players aren't going to learn how to deal with them anyway.

 

[Rathalos]

And they still do. Even if they were massively nerfed.

Casual players aren't going to learn how to deal with them anyway.

Ya pretty much.

I still question the business sense in designing a character like Deathstroke for your casual oriented DC fighting game. Especially when you want to retain as many players as possible so they buy the DLC.

Even nerfed, and even if this game had flawless netcode, he would still be a brick wall for the casual audience.

 

[NoobHunter420]

Because why should NRS listen to someone who doesn't know anything about the game beyond 3 hit dial combos and jump-in mashing?

The game should not be balanced on the whim of someone who doesn't take the time to learn the game but has all day to bitch about it.

They paid for the game, their needs and wants needs to be addressed as much as m2dave's and pig's.

 

[THTB]

Ya pretty much.

I still question the business sense in designing a character like Deathstroke for your casual oriented DC fighting game. Especially when you want to retain as many players as possible so they buy the DLC.

Even nerfed, and even if this game had flawless netcode, he would still be a brick wall for the casual audience.

Because there's ALWAYS going to be a character like that in ANY fighting game. You won't be able to really avoid it, in all honesty. If they didn't include these characters, it would've been someone else, like Green Lantern.

 

[187x]

The problem is people crying for nerfs...

Crying for nerfs is a worse problem then a ranking system where you go from 8 to 3 without playing in almost 6 months. Crying for, and then waiting for the nerfs stops people from learning to deal with things. Rather than learn how to fight something, they just decide.. "ehhh.. I'll avoid it for now or just cry cheap anytime I play one of these guys, I'm just waiting for it to get patched out". People online decide to avoid these "cheap spammers using a broken character" until a patch nerfs the character. We should not be a community that sits paitently waiting for nerfs rather than actually taking things in the lab with an open mind that its US thats the issue and not the character we are facing.

Lets also not forget Kabal and Kenshi.... Those 2 characters were not cried about until AFTER the final patch. Yup, the community cried about all the other "cheap" stuff but not Kabal or Kenshi until it was too late. What happened was that now, there were no characters left to fight them, making MK9 ridiculously unfair. When you cry for nerfs, you will ALWAYS miss something, something will ALWAYS slip under the radar. By nerfing so much, one thing goes unchecked, and now there are no characters left to combat it.

A community who doesn't learn from its history is doomed to repeat it. I doubt anyone wants that..

That's not the problem. The problem is NRS listens to the cry babies for nerfs and buffs.