Balance Change Council

[Prinz]

I agree he is a great character at the moment but take away the resets and he falls off a lot on the tier list. I used to think he would be pretty much the same with or without the reset but let's be serious the only offensive use of meter is the EX bomb for resets. Anyways on the flip side if rushdown characters were nerfed to create more balance in the game it would almost be like giving Smoke buff's since those are the characters he struggles against.

A great buff would be invincibility on start-up of enhanced smoke-away/towards. It'd give a free out of pressure option + great spacing for use of meter. And guaranteed 10% for 1 bar is awesome.

 

[OutworldKeith]

She zones to build meter. But you asked what her weakness is. She's like kabal in rush down. But kabal is by far safer and excels in zoning

Doesnt she builds crazy meter from that long ass blockstring?

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

. No need for speeding up his normals, it's fine.

Thank you. Tried to tell him that.

 

[Espio]

I started just doing stuff for Stryker and Jade, but I actually decided to add some stuff for a lot more so this is going to be long lol.


Stryker
1. First hit in back 1, 2, 2 hits mid regardless of hitbox size and is 12 frames with slight increase in range of back 1.
2. Faster start up and better recovery on grenades.
3. Speed up Back 3, make it 15 frames.
4. Baton sweep to have pushback on block and -7.
5. Hitbox size reduced to medium.
6. Slight damage buff.


Jade
1. First hit of 2 in 2,3 forward 2 to hit mid regardless of hitbox size.
2. Faster start up and recovery on boomerangs.
3. Staff grab to be -8 on block and keep the pushback.
4. Standing 3 is now 12 frames and increased range.
5, Kitana sized hitbox (OR) Kitana esque down 1.
6. Slight damage buff.

Those things would make them really solid, but still very fair.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

These are the things that I think matter for buffs for NW. These will balance him against the top tier characters.

Current F2 - 20 frames, high, neutral on block, grants eh lightning on hit, linkable to specials, +46 on hit
Buff F2 - 15 frames, overhead, neutral on block, grants eh lighting on hit, linkable to specials, +46 on hit

Strategy: Gives him a 50/50 that can lead to a combo if you want to spend the meter...still a very slow normal but at least the move has a purpose now. It also grants a safe jump for pressure

Current F3 - 11 frames, mid, -4 on block, gap between f3 and 1, linkable to axe
Buff F3 - 11 frames, Low, -4 on block, no gap in string f312, linkable to axe, arrow, and eh arrow

Strategy: 50/50 with f2. Grants better pressure and leads to unbreakable damage if linked to eh arrow, and lightning. The goal is to give him something more than block strings and neg advantage pressure.

Current eh hatchet - 21 frames, neutral on block, both hits are mid
Buff eh hatchet - 21 frames, +3 on block, second hit is overhead.

Strategy: being +3 gives him a chance to get in a possible 50/50 or keep people blocking. the overhead means they will be standing so you know you can shoulder and they cant neutral crouch easily without opening them up for the overhead.

Current Arrow - 36 frames, -21 on block, +18 on hit
Buff arrow - 28 frames, -10 on block, + 20 on hit

Strategy: Grants pressure and is relatively safe (not unpunishable though). Similar to Jax pressure you see Tyrant do. With his 50/50 options this actually makes sense now. (Arrow Trap is also more viable because of this)

Current eh arrow - 36 frames, -13 on block, +19 on hit
Buff eh arrow - 28 frames, -6 on block, +32 on hit

Strategy: eh lightning comes out in 31 frames, therefore it grants a free eh lightning for unbreakable damage and combo opportunities. It costs lots of meter to do this so it is not an every pressure situation.

Current eh choke - 20 frames, -10 on block, 16 damage, high, has armor
Buff eh choke - 15 frames, 0 on block, can be canceled into a combo like raidens, mid, has armor

Strategy: Just abetter version of his current choke with more damage potential.

Give him a slightly smaller hitbox while crouch blocking

 

[Cibernetico]

Only Ermac changes I would like is for his original damage to be back how it was before all these patches and for a bit more recovery on TKP.

Cheers!

 

[Prinz]

My changes for Jade:

- overhead staff - +1 on block (0 now) - better options for backing away or blockstringing for meter

- staffgrab - 17f (19f now), -9 on block (-11 now) so it's not punishable by fast specials (Nightwolf shoulder, JC shadowkick, Baraka blade charge, Kenshi shoulder etc.), 10% dmg (8% now)

- shadow kick launches slightly higher for a true launch

- straight and high boomerangs 22f start-up (28 now) and 51f and 50f duration respectively (59f and 58f now) - for better zoning

- low boomerang 22f start-up (26f now), 60f duration (68f now), +1 on hit (-9 now) - again for better options to back away or blockstring

- flash - negates Kenshi's tele-flurry, 21f delay before reactivation (27f now) - for blowing up Kenshi

- glow - lasts 120f (92f now), 21f delay before reactivation (27f now)

- 122 - last 2 overhead, -9 on block (-28 now) with pushback (no push-back now)

- 12 - +22 cancel on block (+17 now) - to cancel safely into low rang for mix-up with 122

- 2 - 10f start-up (13f now)

- 23 - +22 cancel on block (+17 now) to have no gap in 23f2 and cancel safely into low rang

- 3 - 10f start-up (15f now), +24 cancel on block (+19 now) not to have a gap in 342 - since it has little reach, it'll have better start-up

- 34 - +68 cancel on hit (+58 now) so staff overhead connects

- 342 recovers a little faster so dashing and connecting a shadow kick is possible

- 4 - +35 cancel on hit (+26 now) so staff overhead connects

- 4f3 - -5 on block (-7 now) so it's not punishable by Reptile's dash

- b1 - +18 cancel on block (+10 now) to at least have a jailing shadow kick option (everything after b1 on block is interruptable by a poke now)

- b1f1 - -5 on block (-18 now)

- b2 - 15f (18f now), -10 on block (-13 now) and pushback (no push-back now) - for better spacing

- b3 - 15f (17f now), +22 cancel on block (+17 now) to have no gap in b32

- b4 - 15f (17f now)

- f2 - 20f (24f now), 45f duration (53f now), +27 cancel on block (+24 now) not to have a gap in f21, extended vertical hitbox - will better its use

- f21 - high-low (high-high now) - for midscreen mix-up options

 

[OutworldKeith]

I started just doing stuff for Stryker and Jade, but I actually decided to add some stuff for a lot more so this is going to be long lol.


Stryker
1. First hit in back 1, 2, 2 hits mid regardless of hitbox size and is 12 frames with slight increase in range of back 1.
2. Faster start up and better recovery on grenades.
3. Speed up Back 3, make it 15 frames.
4. Baton sweep to have pushback on block and -7.
5. Hitbox size reduced to medium.
6. Slight damage buff.


Jade
1. First hit of 2 in 2,3 forward 2 to hit mid regardless of hitbox size.
2. Faster start up and recovery on boomerangs.
3. Staff grab to be -8 on block and keep the pushback.
4. Standing 3 is now 12 frames and increased range.
5, Kitana sized hitbox (OR) Kitana esque down 1.
6. Slight damage buff.

Those things would make them really solid, but still very fair.

I think Styker needs:
+ His combo starters (b1 and b2) to hit mid, but speed up b1 too.
+ Baton sweep should be -6 or -7.

Everything else would be great but not really necessary.

As for Jade:
+Damage buff
+Faster startup on boomerangs
+2 should hit mid

I don't really understand why other Jade players want u3 to hit overhead. It doen't really lead to much.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

My wishlist for Reptile:

Faster normals for less clunkyness:
9f St.1
12f St.3
7f D3
8f D1

Nerf/fix some specials:

Elbow Dash -20 on block
Forceballs / EN Forceballs working 100% of the time even after a teleport
EN Slide fix so that 2nd hit never misses
EN Acid Spit neutral on block

 

[OutworldKeith]

Scorpion Buffs: - 8 frame standing 1
- 1,1 moves you forward more
- +2 advantage on hellfire
- +2 advantage on d3
- Flame Spear hits people when poking.
- Takeout doesn't slide under people.

My Scorpion balances;
+ D4 8f startup, +8 on hit
+ Fix Ex Spear so it doesn't whiff when opponent is too close
- Remove armor from Ex Takedown
+Make Hellfire safe on whiff, and +4 on hit

 

[Prinz]

I don't really understand why other Jade players want u3 to hit overhead. It doen't really lead to much.

Not overhead, medium maybe. But it's not necessary if b2 is 15 and relatively safe.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Not overhead, medium maybe. But it's not necessary if b2 is 15 and relatively safe.

u3 doesn't really lead to much anyway. It would be a wasted buff.

 

[kronspik]

+Make Hellfire safe on whiff, and +4 on hit

I don't like this change. If you want to buff hellfire, it should do more damage instead. Unblockables should be punishable just on principle.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I don't like this change. If you want to buff hellfire, it should do more damage instead. Unblockables should be punishable just on principle.

Jax's unblockable is barely punishable, not to mention it can be canceled.

Scorpion doesn't have any safe specials on block or whiff. This buff combined with a better d4 would give him a better neutral game, and that's what he needs. He will still be hella unsafe overall.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Sektor
Better reach on 2 in 1, (2), B1.
EX Burner is now armored on startup. Additionally, 0 on hit and -11 on block
Strings can be cancelled into Leg Lift.

 

[kronspik]

Jax's unblockable is barely punishable, not to mention it can be canceled.

Scorpion doesn't have any safe specials on block or whiff. This buff combined with a better d4 would give him a better neutral game, and that's what he needs. He will still be hella unsafe overall.

Scorpion's hellfire duration is 68 frames while Jax's ground pound is 65. They are nearly identical in punishability. The difference is that scorpion gets much more damage off an anti air midscreen. I think making hellfire do more damage will make it more of a threat and people will want to jump more, which is good for Scorp. Maybe make it do 16%?
Having an unpunishable unblockable move isn't a fun gameplay dynamic.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Scorpion's hellfire duration is 68 frames while Jax's ground pound is 65. They are nearly identical in punishability. The difference is that scorpion gets much more damage off an anti air midscreen. I think making hellfire do more damage will make it more of a threat and people will want to jump more, which is good for Scorp. Maybe make it do 16%?
Having an unpunishable unblockable move isn't a fun gameplay dynamic.

No they're not. Jax can cancel his making it much more dangerous. Scorpion does more damage than Jax overall anyway. That would make it more of a threat, but isn't 16% a bit much? maybe 12%.

 

[kronspik]

Hellfire has a faster startup than ground pound as well. I figured 16% would be good because that's still less than what Jax gets off a ground pound, dash punch combo.

 

[kronspik]

On that note, Nightwolf's regular lightning should do more damage as well. It's pretty much the worst unblockable.

 

[Espio]

I think Styker needs:
+ His combo starters (b1 and b2) to hit mid, but speed up b1 too.
+ Baton sweep should be -6 or -7.

Everything else would be great but not really necessary.

As for Jade:
+Damage buff
+Faster startup on boomerangs
+2 should hit mid

I don't really understand why other Jade players want u3 to hit overhead. It doen't really lead to much.

We generally seem to agree on what they could use, which is cool . I like back 2 hitting mid as well, it's a legit idea like it does on Freddy and Kenshi along with other big hitbox characters.





More mids is good, but I feel those need to be backed up with harder punishing, safer specials/faster zoning (grenades and baton sweep), and a fast low starter, it would make a huge impact for him.They're simple fixes as well. The smaller hitbox just means his hitbox is normal sized as opposed to big, I don't feel like even with the buffs he'd be deserving of a big hitbox, he'd be around Kitana or Sektor ish range and they have small hitboxes.



I agree about up 3 with Jade. I feel gets too much emphasis. It's a solid normal, but it doesn't open people up to big damage or anything like that. Hitting mid is fine, but the areas that would really help her I feel are the ones you mentioned along with mine.


Stryker and Jade I feel are similarly designed, defensive characters and of course counterzoners, its part of why my buffs for them are similar lol at least in my opinion.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

On that note, Nightwolf's regular lightning should do more damage as well. It's pretty much the worst unblockable.

Add this to my list also.

 

[OutworldKeith]

*Snip

You know how to give them balance because none of your buffs will overpower the characters. Most people suggest armor which is very stupid IMO.

Speeding up b3 would be great. Most people block low vs Stryker because of b3, and it makes it hard to get damage because his mids don't lead to damage.

 

[PPJ]

SEKTOR: MAIN CHANGES- PERSONAL LIST

(new moves/move animations are assumed from default player 1 left stance)

- Leg lift builds meter and you can now transition into leg lift by pressing u+3 after certain moves/strings - 4, 3, 124, 13, f4, new string 23, and b3.
--- From every transition on block or non-knockdown hit, your opponent would recover faster than you by two frames, so for example, f4 is currently 0 on block, so transitioning to leg lift would put you at -2.
- EX flamethrower now has armor. Both regular and EX versions now +3 on hit and -15 on block
- 13 string animation change - the 3 is now a left knee that hits true mid. advantage on hit increased to +4 from +2
- New string 23 - right hook into left mid spinning kick ala Skarlet b113. -3 on block with pushback, on hit knocks down like Skarlets b113
- Sweep animation change - lowers hitbox more, now 0 on block from -2, now 17 frame execution from 19
-f4 series changed - f43 is now +3 on block but remains high, f44 is now an overhead slamming inverted crescent kick that bounces ala Kano b112. Juggle physics slightly changed but still able to use either f43~tele or f44~tele in most combos. f4 by itself is now +1 on block ONLY if you don't cancel into leglift.
-f2b1 second hit now hits true mid, block disadvantage reduced to -18 from -31
--- Second hit is now chargeable and charge cancellable ala cage/sub/ermac b2. Only full charge is unblockable, does 15%, but doesn't allow for a combo... it just knocks down like an uncharged f2b1. Half charging it will not reduce block disadvantage - stays the same
- After a blocked EX tele, you now have the option of pressing 2 to finish the animation and hit the second punch that bounces for a juggle. Hits HIGH and -16 on block with pushback. Opponent has 8 frame gap to interrupt Sektor before the second hit hits.. if you choose to do so.
- Still has T-REX ARMS on stuff like 1, 12, etc. This will force the Sektor player to utilize all his moveset in different situations instead of spamming the same shit
- Homing missle NOW DOES 2% CHIP up until the point where the opponent has 5% health left or less.
- Robo Sektor's 122 now matches human's hitbox
- Straight and EX straight missle has 2 frames reduced startup - execution is now 18 (49 from full screen).
--- If you hold the 1 button during EX straight missile, you get the MK Trilogy double missile. No pushback on block unlike regular EX missile, +5 on hit from pointblank range (doesn't knock down) and -11 on block.
- Robo Sektor X-ray now hits lower like his human counterpart and is now -10 on block from pointblank range
- Standing 3 animation change - now moves slightly forward and hits lower ala Evil Ryu's standing MK in AE 2012
- Leglift 34 animation change - now no longer the same as b34. First hit is a low left side kick that lowers his hitbox and looks like Raiden d4, second hit is now a counterclockwise right roundhouse popup kick that looks like second hit of Noob's f43, and is NO LONGER CANCELLABLE into specials, but now launches on it's own and hits true mid. First hit same execution & hit/block advantages as before, second hit same execution but is -7 on block with slight pushback.


Other/Misc./Damage Changes
1 & 12 - +2 on hit from neutral
21 - +3 on hit
4 - 8% from 7
214 - opponent now only has 5 frame gap to interrupt instead of 8. Last hit now does 9% from 7
11b1 - last hit now does 11%
23 - second hit does 7%
124 - last hit does 8% from 7
Sweep - 8% from 7
f2 - 6% damage from 5, -1 on block from 0
b3 - -2 on block from 0, 4% damage from 3
f4 - 7% from 5
b34 - 4% + 8% from 3 + 9
Leglift 34 - 3 + 10%
EX double missile - 6 + 6%
EX straight missile - -1 on block from pointblank range from -5
X-ray = 37% from 32
d1 -4 on hit from -7, -13 on block from -15, cancel advantage on hit now +10 (+8 against crouching) from +8/+6
Not really a change just for Sektor but I'd give almost everyone unique animations for uppercuts, sweeps, d3's and d4's

Wooh, finally done!!

If you think this is broken (it's really not), wait until you see what I got for fishies like Kano and Jade.

Hell, I'm even buffing chars like KABAL.. (even though hes getting a shitload of nerfs with only a few buffs)

 

[NariTuba]

I've got a few:
Cyrax
- Can only throw one normal bomb out while opponent is in hitstun (during a combo). Cyrax does the animation for a second bomb, if attempted, but nothing comes out and the meter that Cyrax would have gained from the bomb is taken away. This also affects Human Cyrax.
- Vertical hitbox on net slightly reduced. This also affects Human Cyrax.
+ Less recovery on EX Teleport
- Anti Air now floats longer on whiff

Whats the point of the first nerf? He would still take about 70% + mixup and everyone would be crying like they did before the 80+ resets were found. Why not take the resets out entirely?

Then you add 2 more significant nerfs and a useless buff. What do you think Exteleport recovering faster would add to his gameplay?

Honestly, the best version of Cyrax I can think of is with no resets (50%+ bnbs as he was intended) and giving him one more footsie tool. Like making the startup on f2 15f instead of 29f.

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

Reptile should have projectile invincibility on ex dash instead of ex hand.
His 3 should be 10 frames, +30 cancel advantage on block.
Balance