Match-up Discussion Oooooh Numbers

[cR WoundCowboy]

If you wanna risk escaping with d3 thats 100% your risk.

D+3 goes under it pretty reliably. It isn't that big of a risk once you have the timing down.

 

[NYCj360]

Since some of you wanted to know (and you all love numbers and lists and such), heres what I think for Rain at the moment:
I put question marks next to those I havent had enough experience against using Rain.

Baraka 6-4
Cybersub 5-5
Cyrax 5-5
Sektor 5-5
Sub zero 5-5

In general Rain beats those with worse footsie tools, goes even on those that rely heavily on good footsie tools, (Sonya, Mileena, Raiden, Sektor etc.) and loses to those with good projectiles that move them backwards (except for Kabals iAGB).

He does well against rushdown characters. Struggles more so against turtles, other than SZ.

I rate him pretty highly because:

- 2 connected 4RH kicks is a round won
- RH cancels are effectively a safe 50/50 that takes no meter and can only be stopped by meter or the opponent interupting.
- 4RH has redonkulous reach.
- He can drain meter, which is great against characters like Cyrax/Smoke who will generally do alot less damage meterless.
- No respect armour is a great psychological advantage in a close game.
- 9 and 10f starters that naturally link into RH
- Good anti airs
- Good options against opponents wakeups.
- Lightning can be used to whiff punish alot of things anywhere on the screen.
- Probably most likely character in the game to get you toasty boosts

i whole heartily agree with these matchups and your Rain sidenotes. This is a character most do not understand yet. I started revolving my rain play off of what ive learned playing you and i have a feeling im going to find something really stupid with this character soon enough.

 

[sub_on_dubs]

I think this mu chart just shows how small their scene is over there.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I think this mu chart just shows how small their scene is over there.

Why dont you enlighten me on Rain then? Seeing as you've played him in tournament/against top players/play him at all.

 

[Owerbart]

A F0xy Grampa can you explain the Cyber Sub MU and why you have it as even?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

A F0xy Grampa can you explain the Cyber Sub MU and why you have it as even?

Basically CSZ can parry the RH cancels which means he has a meterless escape.
Once CSZ has established that they can parry they can then interupt the cancels with 21 or 11.
Ex parry shouldnt work properly on a Rain doing a 4, since he's airbourne, the same thing as Rain kicking the ice clone, it turns into an anti air.

Divekicks lessesn the chances of lightning.

Both characters have a similar fighting style in that CSZ has the 21 1+2 mixup, and Rain has the RH cancel mixup, both characters can escape eachothers and punish eachothers with the correct reads.
I've played it alot with UFG, its usually whoever makes the better reads wins.

 

[Owerbart]

Basically CSZ can parry the RH cancels which means he has a meterless escape.
Once CSZ has established that they can parry they can then interupt the cancels with 21 or 11.
Ex parry shouldnt work properly on a Rain doing a 4, since he's airbourne, the same thing as Rain kicking the ice clone, it turns into an anti air.

Divekicks lessesn the chances of lightning.

Both characters have a similar fighting style in that CSZ has the 21 1+2 mixup, and Rain has the RH cancel mixup, both characters can escape eachothers and punish eachothers with the correct reads.
I've played it alot with UFG, its usually whoever makes the better reads wins.

thanks. didn't thought about parrying the cancels.

 

[bipolar_shango]

you cannot dash out of 21 pressure lol

So 21 is an infinite right? #Kappa. what is d3 for? the point is you cant sit there like an idiot and take whatever they throw at you in the face, there are always options. The kung lao player aint gonna sit there mashing 21 for 90 seconds. It's not Kabals 2 nd cancel for crying out loud. anyway im done arguing with people that have their minds made up.

 

[Smarrgasm]

So 21 is an infinite right? #Kappa. what is d3 for? the point is you cant sit there like an idiot and take whatever they throw at you in the face, there are always options. The kung lao player aint gonna sit there mashing 21 for 90 seconds. It's not Kabals 2 nd cancel for crying out loud. anyway im done arguing with people that have their minds made up.

D3 is negative on hit. Try to follow that up and youll get blown up by people that know.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Foxy i love ya man but i think this Mu chart is very wrong due to lack of MU exp

But anyone who says rain isnt bottom 8 or 10 i say is delusional anyway

 

[Mikemetroid]

Stryker is 6-4, Rain owns him upclose. Not with pressure because he can just 7f uppercut ya out of it, but because Stryker can't really combo punish ANYTHING (pretty much). Stryker literally wins this match with uppercuts, sweeps, rolls, throws, gun, and standing 3/4.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Foxy i love ya man but i think this Mu chart is very wrong due to lack of MU exp

But anyone who says rain isnt bottom 8 or 10 i say is delusional anyway

http://testyourmight.com/threads/rains-placing-on-the-tier-list.26159/

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Foxy i love ya man but i think this Mu chart is very wrong due to lack of MU exp

But anyone who says rain isnt bottom 8 or 10 i say is delusional anyway

Nah man, Rain is SUCH a strong fundamental character, there is no set way to beat him, you HAVE to outplay the player, or be Kenshi
There isnt much in this game he has no reasonable answer for, and like J360 was saying, the characters too underused for most to know enough about him.

And TBH, I doubt there is another Rain player out there with as much MU experience using him as I've got.

Stryker is 6-4, Rain owns him upclose. Not with pressure because he can just 7f uppercut ya out of it, but because Stryker can't really combo punish ANYTHING (pretty much). Stryker literally wins this match with uppercuts, sweeps, rolls, throws, gun, and standing 3/4.

All of them are massive risk to Stryker more so than Rain. The uppercut is a guess, its not gauranteed, if you guess right you get 12%, if Rain guess right he gets 39% minimum + wake up pressure. So thats 3x the reward because the Stryker player gets impatient.
The safest way for Stryker to escape is Ex-roll, but if thats read Rain can jump it and lightning the whiff.

Strykers strings all end negative, so that means that Rain can start offense the moment he finishes blocking. Gun shots wont keep him out, just like they dont keep anybody else out.

Rain can pace the gunshots by returning lighting after a blocked gunshot.

 

[bipolar_shango]

D3 is negative on hit. Try to follow that up and youll get blown up by people that know.

I know. Its like -3 or something.. If i get caught once i usually d1 or d3 into exRH or RH

 

[Big Pampering]

So 21 is an infinite right? #Kappa. what is d3 for? the point is you cant sit there like an idiot and take whatever they throw at you in the face, there are always options. The kung lao player aint gonna sit there mashing 21 for 90 seconds. It's not Kabals 2 nd cancel for crying out loud. anyway im done arguing with people that have their minds made up.

ok. so suddenly dashing out is the only defence in the game? just because you said dashing out was an option I responded to that, which is stupid. I know kung lao in and out. but dont get mad when people correct you when you say you can dash out of a 7 frame move.

 

[Big Pampering]

D3 is negative on hit. Try to follow that up and youll get blown up by people that know.

d4 is all you need to get out of ''continuous'' 21 pressure. a lao player that just mashes 21 without mixing it up or doesnt space it well, either doesnt know lao or he is abusing the opponents ignorance. people dont understand how a mid hitting string will spare you from so many worries.

 

[sub_on_dubs]

Why dont you enlighten me on Rain then? Seeing as you've played him in tournament/against top players/play him at all.

Every time I've seen you use him, you've lost. I'd be interested to see what Cd Jr's mu chart looks like being that he's actually won a tournament with him.

 

[Espio]

Stuff like back 1,2,2 -2 on block with pushback, so Stryker is not going to be caught in Rain's pressure after strings like that, which work on Rain's hitbox and he cannot duck it. Rain's teleport is incredibly negative and is easy to punish offline. Lightning can be rolled on reaction as I've done, even in online lag. Gun cancels can making lighting whiff and he can go into full combo. There's a lot of little nuances to this match up.

The only commonly used string by Stryker that is negative and has no pushback is back 3,2, but he'll primarily be using 1,2, 1,1 and Back 1,2,2 with rare back 2,forward 2 thrown in there. Most of those are neutral or slightly negative with pushback.

Punishing roll toss is something everyone can do if they read it, that is nothing unique to Rain. Getting out pressure against Rain isn't match up specific either, Stryker has the same answers as anybody else with decent low pokes, armor, or fast standing normals.




Sheeva 4-6 in Rain's favor.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Sheeva 4-6 in Rain's favor.

7-3

Rain can option select the telestomp, other than that he's just faster w/ more reach & damage.

Every time I've seen you use him, you've lost. I'd be interested to see what Cd Jr's mu chart looks like being that he's actually won a tournament with him.

My Rains only been in streamed matches twice, do you honestly believe all that my Rain experience narrows down to 2 matches?

Either bring up a good point, or just dont post.

 

[Espio]

7-3

Rain can option select the telestomp, other than that he's just faster w/ more reach & damage.

While this is true, Sheeva does have armor to blow up his pressure and frame trap options that work really well against Rain's hitbox, he limits her telestomp mix ups, but that doesn't mean they cannot be used ever on him. She still has a good pressure game to work against him and can space him out and play footsies.


I've played this match up a lot.

He doesn't shut her down enough to be 7-3 like Mileena or Reptile, who prevent her from doing much of anything she's good at. In fact, Rain's pokes being not so good helps her when she's pressuring him with grab n punch mix ups that are +12 on block.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

F0xy, who exactly do you consider your main?

 

[Zoidberg747]

 

[Death]

Sonya wins this one. But I guess I can downplay the MU and agree with 5-5

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

He doesn't shut her down enough to be 7-3 like Mileena or Reptile, who prevent her from doing much of anything she's good at. In fact, Rain's pokes being not so good helps her when she's pressuring him with grab n punch mix ups that are +12 on block.

Rains pokes being bad arent an issue, all that means is dont use them, why would you need to if you have 4RH and armour?
Thats the 1 thing I dont do with Rain is poke. 4RH is quick enough to punish D1s anyway, anyways he's got a 6f d1 just incase.

 

[LEGEND]

foxy obviously lacks experience vs Some characters, and hes from a different region. . . with lesser competition.

Not arguing any numbers here and i suggest Nobody else does either