Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage: Official Matchup Discussion

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

can the first post be updated with proper numbers? nw cage 5-5...lol

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I'm not the biggest fan of them, but I wouldn't mind to if people wanted it.

I mainly just don't like having to inevitably type out a long argument for each character, which is why ill just chime in from time to time when people ask about specific matchups.

make a chart. but dont explain anything

 

[Mikemetroid]

I'm not the biggest fan of them, but I wouldn't mind to if people wanted it.

I mainly just don't like having to inevitably type out a long argument for each character, which is why ill just chime in from time to time when people ask about specific matchups.

I don't think anyone likes them.

L0rdoftheFLY I forgot about the data wipe, this used to be updated. Anyway...updated.

 

[Soul Bound X]

so what are some strategies against a high level strong zoning freddy kruger?

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

so what are some strategies against a high level strong zoning freddy kruger?

Be patient, after every claw you block he has a mixup of using a spike or not. if he spikes you must block it and then you can advance. our you advance if he claws again. upclose, do not try to bait a poke and punish it because he will d1extelepor. if he is just exteleporting out of pressure you can try to throw him. I do not have much Freddy experience so that is all I can give.

 

[Soul Bound X]

Yeah i don't have a whole lot of freddy experience either... once i get in i do well its just that zoning is crazy. ill figure this out. i just need some more experience against freddy

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Yeah i don't have a whole lot of freddy experience either... once i get in i do well its just that zoning is crazy. ill figure this out. i just need some more experience against freddy

he is one of those top characters that still isnt played too often. Sonya is just starting to get a lot of representation now.

 

[Soul Bound X]

is there ever a reason to anti air with back 3 over standing 1?

 

[Skitzo]

is there ever a reason to anti air with back 3 over standing 1?

Longer reach. More dmg. They're both good & you should use both imo

 

[Mikemetroid]

Longer reach. More dmg. They're both good & you should use both imo

is there ever a reason to anti air with back 3 over standing 1?

B3 = 10 frames but more damage
1 = 8 frames less damage.
Gotta work with whatever fits best for the matchup.

 

[Skitzo]

B3 = 10 frames but more damage
1 = 8 frames less damage.
Gotta work with whatever fits best for the matchup.

Makes sense.

 

[Jivan Karapetian]

B3 is a great anti crossup-tool, and if you keep doing f3,f3 and your opponent jumps over, you're button scheme can sometimes autocorrect to a B3, hitting them out of the cross up.

 

[Dizzy]

B3 is good at beating jumpkicks if spaced and timed correctly.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

i use b3 when I am in footsies and am already walking back or bait a jump, because it beats jiks really well and all. I use standing 1 when i am caught off guard or the spacing is close because I am dashing forward and the spacing becomes awkward. Together they give cage one of the best anti air games imo.

 

[Seapeople]

I just had a random thought that's not really matchup related but I wasn't sure where else to post.
Cage doesn't seem to have many options for unbreakable damage, but if you really need a little damage to close out the round, wouldn't it be a good option to punish people with a raw nutpunch? Then you could do a throw or slightly delay your follow-up pressure so that it can't be broken.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I just had a random thought that's not really matchup related but I wasn't sure where else to post.
Cage doesn't seem to have many options for unbreakable damage, but if you really need a little damage to close out the round, wouldn't it be a good option to punish people with a raw nutpunch? Then you could do a throw or slightly delay your follow-up pressure so that it can't be broken.

As long as the chip damage is gaurenteed they can break, and you cannot throw them out of the nutpunch hitstun. However one thing about ending rounds is that if your back is to the corner, you should end your combo early so you can switch positions with a crossup into chip damage, or a jab into a throw or whatever.

 

[Mikemetroid]

I just had a random thought that's not really matchup related but I wasn't sure where else to post.
Cage doesn't seem to have many options for unbreakable damage, but if you really need a little damage to close out the round, wouldn't it be a good option to punish people with a raw nutpunch? Then you could do a throw or slightly delay your follow-up pressure so that it can't be broken.

If you have the meter... EX forceballs on block negate the breaker... You can also punish ground attacks with f3/1/2 then follow up with a throw (since they will be holding block thinking that they will break).

 

[YOMI DJT]

reptile is a winning match for cage.

Just block orbs and duck spit.

rep will slowly corner himself

reptile has no safe way to get on the other side of you. dash full combo punishable.

ex dash punish by ex nutpunch or full combo or d3 into pressure

rep has slower normals and cage has some of the best aa's so rep wont be jumping.

let reptile walk back and you keep dashing in.

reptile's need space to beat cage dont let rep get the space he needs.

keep the pressure on him

dont worry about doing f3 pressure just do f33b3

wait a while see if he'll jump or do d4 ah or something if not

go back in and do f33b3 see if the rep will dash or do something unsafe and keep doing it.

don't worry about exslide its not worth the rep's meter

just stay patient and don't jump a lot.

most reptiles won't be that patient and just throw out a dash and try and get out but its not safe just punish.

reptile has to be extremely patient and a lot more riskier than cage to win it.

reptile's zoning is decent vs cage but won't keep cage away for long.

once you punish enough dashes and ex dashes etc and not letting the rep jump punishing jumps, the rep will be scared to get out of your pressure.

once you have the rep scared you can do f3 pressure d3 etc. but mostly just do the full f3 combo

cage's footsies mess rep up bad cage definitely wins the match.

Its an easier match offline. online reps can get away with stuff that isn't safe offline.

 

[YOMI DJT]

i'm sure all the matches have been discussed in this thread but i'm just going to go over what I do in certain mus because I do use cage alot just not a lot in tourny and I don't know why aha. I'm do liu next its an even mu and completely footsies I'll tell you what I do because most of the community don't fight a high lvl footsie based liu like me and my bro. or other liu's on the wc.

 

[YOMI DJT]

cage vs liu is pure footsie fight imo even match
liu is using b312 fb 213 for footsies whiff punishing and zoning can even attack some.
liu throws something out at the wrong time and its b3 combo punish for cage.
liu can punish d3 with b312 or start pressure after blocking d3 with b312
liu has to be careful because cage can jump after a blocked d3
liu can 213 out of cage pressure because the 2 is 8f
cage has to mix it up but he can punish d1,d3 with f3
cage can also full combo punish liu's standing 2 with full combo if it whiffs while cage is crouch blocking
the trade is pretty even with fireballs if they hit at the same time
cage can abuse that hitbox but liu has ways out
liu can armor out if cage gets careless.
cage can punish pokes too with b3 too if liu gets careless.
liu can use overhead to mix it up b31 has random adv I think.
its a patient match if your footsies aren't good you will lose playing this mu.

 

[CheapEddie]

I know most of you already know this but still...
Against certain characters f33b3 has got a 1-2f gap when they crouchblock it.
F33B3`s first part of the second hit whiffs on:
Kano, Baraka, Mileena, Sektor, Reptile, Kabal, Cage, Quan Chi.
Its not that useful for Mil, Sektor or Reptile but i think it might be good in mirror and for Kabal.

 

[crosstalk]

I know most of you already know this but still...
Against certain characters f33b3 has got a 1-2f gap when they crouchblock it.
F33B3`s first part of the second hit whiffs on:
Kano, Baraka, Mileena, Sektor, Reptile, Kabal, Cage, Quan Chi.
Its not that useful for Mil, Sektor or Reptile but i think it might be good in mirror and for Kabal.

Yep, there's a full list of characters in this thread, along with more whiffing properties on some of Cage's other strings (11f1 on crouch block, f32 for Quan Chi): http://testyourmight.com/threads/cage-info-for-cage-players.12666/

 

[Peckapowa]

I don't really see any recent Cage MU charts in here so I am making this. I've been maining cage now since april. I've been to multiple majors/locals/evo/and MLG's playing against the top competition from around the world offline and discussing Cage's MU's with the best cage players like Dizzy and Curbolicous. I feel that while everyone may not agree with it, at least it's current unlike a lot of threads in this forum.

Baraka- 6/4 (baraka stands a good chance but i do have a viable blade charge punisher (flash kick, and f3 depending upon range)and a serious footsie advantage, he has to be more careful then he wants to be)
Cyber Sub-Zero- 6/4
Cyrax- 4-6 (cyrax has really good footsie tools(f2 is really cheap), his zoning isnt that much of a problem but he can cover himself with bombs and make it tricky to get in, plus he does too much damage, then again his best pressure escape is a full combo punishable d1)
Ermac- 6-4 (this is 6-4 cage because of ermacs risk reward)
Freddy- 3-7 (freddy at the highest level wrecks cage, his zoning is way too good and his runaway is obnoxious any character without a teleport or something liek kabal has, has serious problems because i think freddies zoning is super broken at the highest level))
Jade- 6/4 (This one i have the least experience in so input is always welcome.)
Jax- 7/3
Kabal- 3/7 (kabals domination of the footsie game if used properly keeps this a 3-7 in my eyes, when kabal players all around start to change the way they zone cage players will be in for a world of hurt)
Kano- 7/3
Kenshi- 2/8
Kitana- 5/5
Kung Lao- 6/4 (this could be even, lao has to dominate footsie game with low hat 21 and 24 and run away like)
Liu Kang- 5/5 (slight adv. cage because liu is dicked in the corner and up close, otherwise liu has control of the fight)
Mileena- 6/4 (could be/probably is 7-3 because what can she really do besides d4 and how does she get out?
Nightwolf- 7/3
Noob- 6/4
Quan- 7/3
Raiden- 6/4
Rain- 6/4 (this is definetly in cages favor)
Reptile- 5/5 (reptiles spacing and zoning tools are too good and i believe dash is more of a + then - in terms of what it does to my pressure game, despite risk reward, d4 acid hand needs to be utilized and reptiles need to know how to properly space with it and after it so i cant get in easily)
Scorpion- 7-3 (scorpion only has armor and has to make risks in the footsie game and up close he is my bitch and hes more of a counter-zoner than a keep away)
Sektor- 5/5 (slight advantage cage if any because hes a mighty asshole when he does get in and sektors poke game is suspect)
Shang- 5-5 (shangs zoning is good, might still be in cage's favor playing cowboy will only tell you that cowboy is an amazing player, he may feel its even but on paper this is probably cages favor, might counter-arguments to this not being in cage's favor would have to be because of soul steals effectiveness in the matchup and shangs zoning is actually that much of a bitch, i have a rough time in this fight though)
Sheeva- 8/2
Sindel-7-3 (once i get in its over and she will do good chip, when im in f3 range her zoning and footsie tools cant compete_
Skarlet- 5-5 (this matchup could be in skarlets favor, her zoning is a pain if ur character cant trade and her pressure escapes are really good, i might be able to f33 ex nutpunch her armor on reaction though because of its long duration)
Smoke- 5-5 (this is even in my opinion because smoke has a footsie advantage and is decent for running away and because of his damage, smoke needs to throw and be careful when hes up close)
Sonya- 4-6 (there, is no way in narnia this matchup is even, she has bullshit armor and her d4 dominates the footsie battle and its risky for me to d3 in this matchup, sonya is a very effective turtle i have to take a lot of dumb risks to get in and when i do to punish her i have to take risks)
Stryker- 7-3 (stryker cant do anything up close and once you get past full screen u can just play it slow)
Sub-Zero- 5-5(this could be in cage's favor in my opinion due to his superior punishment and rewards, i feel there corner games are almost equal in this matchup and its very lifelead dependent)

These are my current opinions....

 

[Phosferrax]

I disagree with Shang losing to cage. His zoning is dangerous and builds shit loads of meter, and up close is pokes are good. He can poke and then do a block strinh ending in SS to push cage back out again.

 

[HonkyKong]

Cage kills Jade up close because of his superior footsies and Jade's big hit box. From Fullscreen to Midscreen is where she controls the fight. A good Cage vs a good Keep away Jade seems very 6/4 Cage or 5.5 Cage.