Question Are Smoke's resets wrongly skewing the community's perception of his viability?

[16 Bit]

I ask again why we're still talking about what the top Smoke and a guy using Cage as a secondary thought half a year ago? The current top Smoke and Cage players do not think this MU is that bad.

 

[STRYKIE]

Nothing about it is relevant. The game has changed since then. This was the same era were the same players were going on about how Jax beats Kabal.

I guess in a community where a player's credibility is in tatters for missing 1 top 8, and eliminated in a set where the score was 2-3, this is a good point.

 

[FrothyOmen]

since when did u pick up jade frothy? #yolo

I tried it once. I ragequit MK9 for at least the fifteenth time after a few days of playing her.

 

[16 Bit]

I guess in a community where a player's credibility is in tatters for missing 1 top 8, and eliminated in a set where the score was 2-3, this is a good point.

What are you talking about?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Does Cyrax has a 100% combo launching unparryable projectile that can be linked to any normal or string that can't be punished by anyone without an 8frame attack?

Does Cyrax have a safe overhead launcher giving him the freedom to low poke you to death until you're forced to eat it?

Can Cyrax run away alll day with a backwards teleport?

Mid tier at best? EL. OH. EL.

Mayo doesn't always post on TYM
But when he does... he blows you the fuck up!!

 

[STRYKIE]

What are you talking about?

PL, Junior and whoever else at Dallas that were expected to make top 8?

 

[16 Bit]

PL, Junior and whoever else at Dallas that were expected to make top 8?

so what? what does this have to do with anything?


CD Jr vs. REO from Columbus doesn't matter because it was ages ago not because CD Jr got 13th at Dallas. This was the era when Cage was top 5. The great Curbo panic of 2012. Cage has evolved since then, both his game and an understanding of how to fight him.

Who's word are we taking here? The modern top Cage or are we bringing up results from half a year ago? Get out of here man.

 

[Flagg]

Should I start playing Smoke?

 

[Jimmypotato]

The great Curbo panic of 2012.

Gotta be the best thing I've read all day lol

 

[16 Bit]

This was the same period of time where I was predicting Cage would beat Kitana. Real compelling point here. Bringing up the period of time where most everyone was caught up in f+3 induced hysteria.

 

[FrothyOmen]

This was the same period of time where I was predicting Cage would beat Kitana. Real compelling point here. Bringing up the period of time where most everyone was caught up in f+3 induced hysteria.

Why is it OK for you to discount CDjr winning Columbus with (technically) smoke when, when i brought this up a while ago, I was blown up for bringing up the same thing to make the point that smoke hasn't performed well at many majors? At least you have seen the light in this regard.

 

[STRYKIE]

so what? what does this have to do with anything?


CD Jr vs. REO from Columbus doesn't matter because it was ages ago not because CD Jr got 13th at Dallas. This was the era when Cage was top 5. The great Curbo panic of 2012. Cage has evolved since then, both his game and an understanding of how to fight him.

Who's word are we taking here? The modern top Cage or are we bringing up results from half a year ago? Get out of here man.

I thought it was already clarified what I was referring to with that, and after the way you put it into perspective I proceeded to agree with, what's the problem here?

I mean, you yourself have finished top 8 at every MLG you've been at, but we all know how quickly the community is liable to forget about that if MK is still there next year and you finish 9th..

 

[16 Bit]

Why is it OK for you to discount CDjr winning Columbus with (technically) smoke when, when i brought this up a while ago, I was blown up for bringing up the same thing to make the point that smoke hasn't performed well at many majors? At least you have seen the light in this regard.

You deserved to be blown up because Smoke is doing well. Your boy Young Thomas has performed well recently.

 

[Qwark28]

Since when do we get to shit on people who try to show us errors in our way of thinking as a community so that perhaps we can lvl up as a whole, even if they are wrong?

explain why someone is right or wrong and discuss, 10 year olds can do that.

 

[Glass Sword]

OK LBSH Smoke's bad match-ups (Worse than 4-6) in my opinion.
Kabal - Do I even need to explain this. Winnable, but really difficult.
Sonya - May just me being free, but Sonya can put the pressure on. Smoke has a high hit box and has a hard time running away from this girl. Not to mention a lot of her moves make smokeball wiff at odd times. Also one of the characters you don't want to be doing a lot of pokes into smoke ball.
Skarlet - Can enhanced red dash on reaction to smoke ball for free combo. She is like a soft Kabal for Smoke.
Then again Wafflez says these are only 4-6 since he is much more god like than me with Smoke.
Also Cage is not that hard Smoke can get away pretty easily. It is like xSmokex posted awhile back you just have to play it safe and bigger stages help quite a bit.

 

[RiBBz22]

Skarlet is in Smoke's favor in my opinion

 

[dribirut]

the problem with these threads is that we can all see them in the main forum page which annoys the hell out of some of us.. lol no offense.
And i dont feel one bit bad that the reset is kindda hard to land since you still get a free unblockable 10%....

 

[Faded Dreams V]

But then there was CD Junior, one of this game's most successful players and started out with this very character, but his will to use him quietly disappeared after the OTG Smoke Bomb was patched out, Smoke at this point in time is considered mid-tier at best, and Junior promptly moved on, but as soon as the reset is discovered, BAM!

To be fair, CD jr never once used the reset in tournament matches. He played purely on fundamentals alone--no gimmicks, fancy tech, max damage combos, or resets.

As for this topic, I agree that Smoke's resets wrongly skew the community's perception of him. He's better than people give him credit for. In fact, I wish those resets didn't exist.

And don't get me wrong, I'd abuse the hell out of them if I ever played offline.

 

[Mothmonsterman0]

as someone who just picked up Smoke seriously he's extremely good. the resets are nice, but like Cyrax, he doesn't need them at all. without the reset Smoke can still easily take almost half your life. I mean, how can you say that a character that almost shut down all zoning is average lolz.

saying a character hasn't done well in a major in this game doesn't really say much IMO. With Characters like Kabal, Lao, Kenshi, Cage, and Soyna who have everything, and can dominate most the cast, why would put time into a lesser character when you could play one of these good tiers? most the characters in this game are very good, they just can't hang as well with the top tier.

 

[M2Dave]

Smoke players down play their character a lot. For example, Coward Wafflez says Smoke beats Freddy 6:4 when everybody knows Smoke is Freddy's worst match up. I say Smoke wins 7:3. Maybe even 8:2.

I also pray that no company ever includes such garbage character design in a 2D fighting game. I am sure that many members of this community agree that Smoke is worse than the input bug.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

You deserved to be blown up because Smoke is doing well. Your boy Young Thomas has performed well recently.

I'm all for concurring with Wafflez' skill level... Lets be serious though; Smoke hasn't been doing well consistently in top tournaments at all. There will be a good tournament here and there (mostly depending on who else isn't there) but overall, you're lucky to see a smoke in top8 at a true major.

 

[gdf]

If someone were to say any character was worse than input bug they'd probably say Kabal first, then Vanilla Kung Lao for good measure.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Smoke players down play their character a lot. For example, Coward Wafflez says Smoke beats Freddy 6:4 when everybody knows Smoke is Freddy's worst match up. I say Smoke wins 7:3. Maybe even 8:2.

I also pray that no company ever includes such garbage character design in a 2D fighting game. I am sure that many members of this community agree that Smoke is worse than the input bug.

dude.... i bet you are salty around cigarettes and such. lol. Don't take that personal... it was horrid lame joke...

Seriously... he's kind of right. the SB is one of the worst projectile designs i've seen in ever.

 

[M2Dave]

If someone were to say any character was worse than input bug they'd probably say Kabal first, then Vanilla Kung Lao for good measure.

True. Kabal is overpowered and so was Vanilla Kung Lao.

But Smoke is just a terrible character design. I bet you $1000 that NRS designed him to help scrubs get around projectiles.

 

[gdf]

True. Kabal is overpowered and so was Vanilla Kung Lao.

But Smoke is just a terrible character design. I bet you $1000 that NRS designed him to help scrubs get around projectiles.

They probably thought it was a good idea when first designing him (you know casuals give most of the profit for MK). You've got to give them some slack, being the first 2D fighting game in a long ass time.

Hell, part of the current design team had to be kids when they were making the first MK.

I personally wouldn't care if they brought his design back, because I'd just find the first braindead rushdown character available to beat him.