Injustice - Mortal Kombat 9's 'High-Level Players' Corner Game Influenced Interactive Environments

[CrimsonShadow]

What's stopping a strong player from gaining a life lead, running to the corner, and just spamming rockets until time is over, or until their opponent just quits? And, If the corner safeties aren't spammable then what's the point in having them?

Because what NRS usually does is to take something cheap/easy, and make it punishable. So sure it's easy to execute, but if you expect it, you can usually take some action to punish your opponent for taking the easy way out.

Otherwise characters like Kano Sheeva and Scorpion and moves like Xrays would completely dominate the competitive landscape.

 

[MKK hanzo]

Unless they have neutral maps like brawl this will be full retarded.

If this have neutral maps it will be FAR MORE retarded! Imagine to put rules like "no X stage" or "only 4 car detonations per match"...

 

[Skirtsftw]

Those interactive stages are really dumb hanzo. Without neutral maps this game will be dead within a month. Or they should be taken out all together.

 

[KIllaByte]

Batmobile top 5?

 

[shaowebb]

If you are in the middle of applying corner pressure its rather hard for your opponent to pull off a stage interaction from the corner given the startup on those moves is pretty terrible. The only ones with semi fast looking ones are those that use corners for mobility augmentation like Nightwing. In general, It looks like Batmobile is pretty terrible since you can block it pretty easily and scout it and jump even easier. The only thing it may cause is someone to corner themselves, camp and try to zone in hopes of getting you with an AA on jump in and in that situation you simply jump projectiles to inch forward instead of trying to block and walk up or jump in raw before they commit to a move.

I seriously don't see all this Batmobile talk or stage interactivity talk as a real issue. The only ones that look useful are the ones in the middle of the stage like the flying car and the generator in the batcave because those can be shot to get reactions or combo-ed into. Batmobile and other corner tools can't be combo-ed into in most of these so far. Watch the video posted recently of I think Batman vs Flash (can't remember) where the two players really went at it. It was too fast to apply those corner tools easily. He hits them once or twice , but they are pretty obviously avoidable and the guy hit had to feel disappointed in himself for not doing anything once he saw it coming. I think they only even hit because he was mashing various inputs trying to discover specials.

Best tool is the portal in Superman's zone to move out of the corner and to get behind someone IMO as far as corner tools go. Only real tools are the item drop bombs and the tools you can shoot or combo into IMO.

 

[KIllaByte]

Generator top 5?

 

[KIllaByte]

Portal top 5?

 

[shaowebb]

Generator top 5?

Portal top 5?

Not gonna lie those made me laugh pretty hard just now

 

[KIllaByte]

Not gonna lie those made me laugh pretty hard just now

 

[LesMore]

All this is adding depth to the corner game, everything seems punishable/jump-able from the current videos. Its just going to have more options+ be more interesting to watch. This game is going to be good....

 

[shaowebb]

Notice the options big damage slower characters get in the corners are also big damage slower moves? Looks like they didn't want to change anyone's playstyle by adding these tools so fast guys get fast options off these things and big guys get stuff that match their playstyle too. Sort of like extra moves accessible by screen position...sorta EXACTLY like that actually.

For fun it seems they threw in universal options that everyone could use too regardless of style like the bombs, the portal, and the hanging wires. This means that in theory the addition of such tools won't turn it into "footsy dudes are better due to better stage mobility" or " Power dudes are better due to better stage damage". This gives you each a unique style based move addition to your move list based on position as well as a universal special move that either you or your opponent can use for combos like the wires, bombs and portal stuff. Those are combo tools, zoning tools, and mixup tools anyone can use. Guys with bad zoning may enjoy Batman's stage. Guys with bad mixups may enjoy superman's stage. Guys with poor combo damage may enjoy the city or lower level Batman stage for the hover car or wires.

Why? Because these stages help them cover their weaknesses, but even then they are not free, they are scoutable, your screen position will give away strong odds as to your intentions out there and in general it will be a tool that you can't spam and have to outfootsie and out maneuver your opponents to utilize...and it may backfire on you if the opponent is better at you than that.

Point is these tools arent free, they don't do so much that they are OP and all people will go for, and they are tricky tools only high level will get away with after awhile. I think it adds an interesting comeback factor to guys with stronger footsies than their opponents. Seems pretty balanced and universal to me so far.

 

[zaf]

But you have that card with the combo-breaker already?
That is the ultimate way to escape combos, which could finish you off. You just have to invest 2 bars.

There are not many people out there, but there are some - who don't like the combo-breaker-mechanic, because it puts way too much emphasis on these two bars to be able to break free and most of the time you're not willing to use X-Ray moves (super moves).
Having something to escape out of a corner and basically force the enemy to use his meter, if he wants to extend his combo-damage is in my opinion a good thing.

And yeah, thanks to the cars some will be able to escape the corner, while others will be able to use the cars to extend damage. We don't know yet how it will turn out to be. If Nightwing gets the momentum, he can use the car to escape. If Superman does it, he could be able to use the car to extend his corner-damage by a ridiculously large margin, if the environmental-damage stays as high as it is now.

All I'm saying is that the possibilities seem to be endless, when it comes to this game and I'm very excited to see more of it.
I also wouldn't mind being able to escape the corner to avoid cheap ass damage. Having an opponent who has to use meter to extend his damage always makes the fight more interesting, since he basically loses meter. It's a give and take. Awesome!

im fine with breaker. This game would be so stupid without it. So many characters can do a lot of damage into resets and if they catch you again its done. I would hate to fight a rain or ermac with no meter ever. Or a cage for that matter. I like the option of being able to use my meter for breaker or an xray. Like if a eat a combo, ill take all of the damage and save it for an xray if i know i can get it in and that will put me ahead in life.

I just dont like new mechanics that make things easy. When i play mk9 and im in the corner against cage, i enjoy the challenge of getting out, its very rewarding. I just dont want the game to have one option that is always the best option, i find it has a lack of depth. It reminds me of a kenshi player, who will always shoulder. There are other options but should really is the best option in so many situations.

As for wall bounce and floor bounce for a meter. Im all for it. THAT i like, i do it with ermac. I will use ex-tks often to extend my combo for 8% extra. I guess i really just need to try the game and see how it is. Who knows maybe characters like nightwing will be susceptible to NJP like AA's when they do use the car to jump out, and you can still get reads off.

 

[Killzone]

im fine with breaker. This game would be so stupid without it. So many characters can do a lot of damage into resets and if they catch you again its done.

That's my first problem.
MK9 would be stupid without the combo-breaker, since very often you would basically be chanceless.
MK9 would also be stupid without a block button, because of the many characters with amazing teleports and instant attacks after. UMVC3 has a lot of teleports as well, but there you can block the incoming mix-ups.

My problem is that the combo-breakers are too important in MK9 and that they could be too important in Injustice. When your main focus is to save 2 meters to be able to break out, you're less willing to invest it in combo-extention, or super-moves, which basically requier more execution and better gameplay, than just getting out of the opponents combo by using the breaker.
Of course behind the breaker there is also a lot of skill and strategy, but I'm more into the real over-the-top-action, as Ed Boon would say, so I personally would like to see more usage of enhanced moves and supers to deal damage, instead of always having to save 2 meters for the breaker.

And you could easily fix that by taking out the breaker-mechanic and giving the characters more life. Then the fights would go longer and you wouldn't die after making 2 mistakes and getting comboed for over 50% each time in the corner, especially with the new mechanics to get out of the corner (if that even works as easy as we talk about it).

I just dont like new mechanics that make things easy. When i play mk9 and im in the corner against cage, i enjoy the challenge of getting out, its very rewarding. I just dont want the game to have one option that is always the best option, i find it has a lack of depth. It reminds me of a kenshi player, who will always shoulder. There are other options but should really is the best option in so many situations.

This is my second problem.
Yeah, it can be very, very tough against some characters, when you're in the corner in MK9. In every fighting game, but I feel like MK9 is especially hard to deal with, when it comes to the corners.
That's what Hector Sanchez says in the interview. As soon as the match starts, if often becomes a race to the corner.

Look at the name you're naming. Cage and Kenshi.
In MK9 characters are not characters anymore. You don't play Cage, because you think that he is a cocky, cool badass and you don't play Kenshi, because ironically he is the blind guy who breaks the fourth wall. No, you play these characters, because they're good and someone like Cage is especially good when it comes to corner game. Invest meter with Noob Saibot and you have a good corner-char as well with his damn oily shadows.
It limits you as a player, since you're basically using the characters just to have advantages in the corner. It shouldn't feel rewarding to escape the corner, when you're facing a Cage, but it should be more rewarding to defeat opponents who use characters they actually like in a game that gives you so many options that you can choose how you want to fight, so having the ability to escape from the corner, when you feel uncomfortable? I'm digging it!

PS: This text could be full of shit. I'm not THAT familiar with MK9, but that's how I personally see the game and it's gameplay from time to time.

 

[quandaghost]

Man how are you gonna promote people getting out of jail free bro. The corner is an intrinsic pressure tool no matter what the game is or the mechanics. The thing about these new fighters is that they are trying to appeal to people who get mad because they think getting cornered, and beaten is cheap. When if you are a competent player you should be more than aware of your positioning, and how to address the situation.

I wanna try and give this game a chance, but nothing about this game really is appealing to me. Like the MVC3 esque button set-up feels dumb. The fact that I have speacial move button feels dumb, the fact that I read somewhere that there is a jump button that isn't up on the D-pad feels dumb. Idk I feel like they are insulting my intelligence with the button changes, and system changes.

 

[WayoftheFist]

People who didn't even want to entertain the idea that a MU number could be different on Pit or Rooftop Day are really going to be irritated with any attempt at a MU chart in this game.

 

[quandaghost]

That's my first problem.
MK9 would be stupid without the combo-breaker, since very often you would basically be chanceless.
MK9 would also be stupid without a block button, because of the many characters with amazing teleports and instant attacks after. UMVC3 has a lot of teleports as well, but there you can block the incoming mix-ups.

My problem is that the combo-breakers are too important in MK9 and that they could be too important in Injustice. When your main focus is to save 2 meters to be able to break out, you're less willing to invest it in combo-extention, or super-moves, which basically requier more execution and better gameplay, than just getting out of the opponents combo by using the breaker.
Of course behind the breaker there is also a lot of skill and strategy, but I'm more into the real over-the-top-action, as Ed Boon would say, so I personally would like to see more usage of enhanced moves and supers to deal damage, instead of always having to save 2 meters for the breaker.

And you could easily fix that by taking out the breaker-mechanic and giving the characters more life. Then the fights would go longer and you wouldn't die after making 2 mistakes and getting comboed for over 50% each time in the corner, especially with the new mechanics to get out of the corner (if that even works as easy as we talk about it).



This is my second problem.
Yeah, it can be very, very tough against some characters, when you're in the corner in MK9. In every fighting game, but I feel like MK9 is especially hard to deal with, when it comes to the corners.
That's what Hector Sanchez says in the interview. As soon as the match starts, if often becomes a race to the corner.

Look at the name you're naming. Cage and Kenshi.
In MK9 characters are not characters anymore. You don't play Cage, because you think that he is a cocky, cool badass and you don't play Kenshi, because ironically he is the blind guy who breaks the fourth wall. No, you play these characters, because they're good and someone like Cage is especially good when it comes to corner game. Invest meter with Noob Saibot and you have a good corner-char as well with his damn oily shadows.
It limits you as a player, since you're basically using the characters just to have advantages in the corner. It shouldn't feel rewarding to escape the corner, when you're facing a Cage, but it should be more rewarding to defeat opponents who use characters they actually like in a game that gives you so many options that you can choose how you want to fight, so having the ability to escape from the corner, when you feel uncomfortable? I'm digging it!

PS: This text could be full of shit. I'm not THAT familiar with MK9, but that's how I personally see the game and it's gameplay from time to time.

I never choose a character because they are cool that's stupid. You should pick characters according to your playstyle, and what you excel at. In any fighting game I always choose characters with Akuma like vortex, or Adon's abililty to punish. It's been like that since SFA3. I don't see how it limits you at all. Any good player is gonna make contingencies to get in, and out of the corner. I know with scorpion I hate being in the corner, but I have the patience enough to actually not hit buttons , and poke my way out. I don't think that it's gonna be a problem cause if they can do the corner escapes then it can be baited and the situation reset, but why even put it there in the first place instead of making players learn how to adapt to the corner game, and choose how to escape based on pressure patterns, or knowledge of the characters tools, and spacing?

 

[Rathalos]

Man how are you gonna promote people getting out of jail free bro. The corner is an intrinsic pressure tool no matter what the game is or the mechanics. The thing about these new fighters is that they are trying to appeal to people who get mad because they think getting cornered, and beaten is cheap. When if you are a competent player you should be more than aware of your positioning, and how to address the situation.

I wanna try and give this game a chance, but nothing about this game really is appealing to me. Like the MVC3 esque button set-up feels dumb. The fact that I have speacial move button feels dumb, the fact that I read somewhere that there is a jump button that isn't up on the D-pad feels dumb. Idk I feel like they are insulting my intelligence with the button changes, and system changes.

Wut... there is no "jump button" where the fuck did you read that?

Also its not the MVC3 button layout, its the Jojos bizarre adventure layout. A whole bunch of games use it.
Jojo
UMVC3
Persona 4
Blazblue
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
Arcana Hearts
I think a few more doujin games as well, but I don't go deep into those areas.

 

[quandaghost]

Wut... there is no "jump button" where the fuck did you read that?

Also its not the MVC3 button layout, its the Jojos bizarre adventure layout. A whole bunch of games use it.
Jojo
UMVC3
Persona 4
Blazblue
Tatsunoko vs Capcom
Arcana Hearts
I think a few more doujin games as well, but I don't go deep into those areas.

See I never played like 80% of those and I don't really like anime fighting games, or any vs series game

 

[KIllaByte]

Man how are you gonna promote people getting out of jail free bro. The corner is an intrinsic pressure tool no matter what the game is or the mechanics. The thing about these new fighters is that they are trying to appeal to people who get mad because they think getting cornered, and beaten is cheap. When if you are a competent player you should be more than aware of your positioning, and how to address the situation.

I wanna try and give this game a chance, but nothing about this game really is appealing to me. Like the MVC3 esque button set-up feels dumb. The fact that I have speacial move button feels dumb, the fact that I read somewhere that there is a jump button that isn't up on the D-pad feels dumb. Idk I feel like they are insulting my intelligence with the button changes, and system changes.

Most of what you're saying isn't true.
No special move button, gimmick button.
Up is jump, not a separate button.
How is MVC3 esque button setup a valid complaint?

 

[Wildabeast]

So many Fighting game developers are implementing mechanics to make things easier for the newer player these days, not even realizing that these same mechanics make high level play that much more ridiculous (X factor in UMvC3 is a perfect example, dumbest mechanic ever).

 

[shaowebb]

So many Fighting game developers are implementing mechanics to make things easier for the newer player these days, not even realizing that these same mechanics make high level play that much more ridiculous (X factor in UMvC3 is a perfect example, dumbest mechanic ever).

Xfactor AND giving long combo potential to folks with normals that fill half the screen. Basically, just pumping up the damage or combo capability of pixie characters in general in that game was irritating. I can't tell you how much DERP goes on in matches of folks just picking Dante or Vergil and spamming teleports or swords and then enjoying combos so long and easy that most the cast just became irrelevant due to their ease of victory potential. Sure theres lots of tech to unlock in those guys, but derp wins the day and thats generally most of what you see done with them. Wesker is in the same boat even though his normals are fine because he has ridiculous teleports with full screen hit confirms and some of the stupidest damage output imaginable for someone with the easiest solo mixups from anywhere in the game.

I mained IRONFIST in UMVC3 and RYU in vanilla. Feel. My. Pain.

 

[Wildabeast]

Xfactor AND giving long combo potential to folks with normals that fill half the screen. Basically, just pumping up the damage or combo capability of pixie characters in general in that game was irritating. I can't tell you how much DERP goes on in matches of folks just picking Dante or Vergil and spamming teleports or swords and then enjoying combos so long and easy that most the cast just became irrelevant due to their ease of victory potential. Sure theres lots of tech to unlock in those guys, but derp wins the day and thats generally most of what you see done with them. Wesker is in the same boat even though his normals are fine because he has ridiculous teleports with full screen hit confirms and some of the stupidest damage output imaginable for someone with the easiest solo mixups from anywhere in the game.

I mained IRONFIST in UMVC3 and RYU in vanilla. Feel. My. Pain.

While yes Dante and Vergil are quite stupid Wesker is one of those characters thats kinda been swept aside because of the top tier. He loses hard to some of the top characters in the game; Zero vs Wesker is absolutely terrible, Morrigan vs Wesker is just about a total slaughter, Magnetto vs Wesker is pretty bad, Vergil vs Wesker isn't good. But yeah I know what you mean I tried playing Iron Fist for a while as well, gave up on that and went to Spencer and haven't looked back.

 

[quandaghost]

Most of what you're saying isn't true.
No special move button, gimmick button.
Up is jump, not a separate button.
How is MVC3 esque button setup a valid complaint?

Umvc3 se-up is just a personal gripee caue hate not having 6 button set-up like lp lk mp mk hp hk. I read somewhere that the control scheme was light, medium, hard, environment/ special. I think I read on here or in gameinformer that there was actually gonna be a jump button too.

 

[shaowebb]

The recent TGS show that had the interview from Mr. Toffee explains the controls for Injustice as Light/Medium/Heavy/Character Specific (gimmick)

Block is holding back and jump is done using the stick as well. This setup is pretty much Blaz Blue's setup exactly and its gaining a lot of comparisons in interviews for how this may help it to appeal to japanese fighting game fans more.

 

[Rathalos]

So far the attacks aren't really Light Medium Heavy, there probably just saying that so causal people know what the control scheme is, in reality its basically just 1 2 3. What I mean by that is 1 isn't the lightest normal and 3 isn't the heaviest normal, there just 3 appropriate attacks for the character.