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Mortal Kombat Revival

NinjaGrinder

NinjaGrinder

A living, Breathing Piece of Defecating Meat
What a time waster, really. Who needs a "better" UMK3? who needs instant fatalities? aggressor, xray, breakers? seriously? why do you think people NEED a better 2d MK? what makes you think that UMK3 is not the IDEAL 2d MK game? the game's not plagued with infinites and 100% combos all over the place, this game actually works that way! this game is just perfect, no one needs an "improvement" of UMK3.
 
MKK hanzo

MKK hanzo

Moderator
NinjaGrinder said:
What a time waster, really. Who needs a "better" UMK3? who needs instant fatalities? aggressor, xray, breakers? seriously? why do you think people NEED a better 2d MK? what makes you think that UMK3 is not the IDEAL 2d MK game? the game's not plagued with infinites and 100% combos all over the place, this game actually works that way! this game is just perfect, no one needs an "improvement" of UMK3.
Click to expand...

Play the black heart Grinder. You will like it.
 
F

FrozenWorm

Mortal
...

Well... I know you are a N64 MKT player and you're happy playing a +10 years old game, but some of us want to play a good MK new game; Ed Boon have been failing us since then, even MKT is plaged with countless 100% and infinites, so I'm doing this for me, not to please anyone. If you don't think UMK3/MKT needs any fixes then don't play anything but your game, that's easier than posting against people who want to use their time to create something for nothing but love.

Shock, all you say about UMK3 will be done, what might be subject to consideration is objections to new moves or systems innovating UMK3 gameplay like for example giving basic moves to Kintaro, or if you don't like characters to have too many moves, or stuff like that. I asume you would like to give opinions about new stuff, and all that will be taken seriously.

Now, I want to give an example of what I want... this would be a quick (incomplete) movelist for Scorpion:
- Spear (also in air, wich will cause bounce)
- Teleport Punch (also in air)
- Forward Flying Punch (also in air, from MKT)
- Backflip Kick (from MKDA)
- Fire Breath (from MK4) "can keep the mask off"
- Fire Breath Throw (Will grab the opponent and throw fire into his face) "can keep the mask off"
- Summon Hellfire (from MKDA)
- Scissors Kick (from MK2 with a forward effect like in MKvsDCU)
- Air throw (from MK4)
- Infernal Scorpion Stance (will take his mask off and fight with a flamming skull "unmasked" having new moves, and different versions of some regular ones, will be able to do all basic moves as well)
- Spear (MKDA animation)
- Teleport Uppercut (from MKvsDCU)
- Teleport Kick (also in air, from MKD)
- Fire Breath
- Inner Flames (from MKvsDCU)
- Air Throw (from MK9)

Scorpion will be something like that, not everything I have in mind for him is in there, but that would give you an idea; the thing is to imagine you're in UMK3 with all of those moves, obviously all characters will have a huge amount of options, both new (original) and from newer MK games done exactly the way they look in those 3D games.

Now, you can use your imagination to practice new juggles, plan some strategy to fight with him and enjoy the gameplay wich will allow you to use the Run button AT LAST, while keeping the best from all MK games, having the classic fatalities, better than they were in UMK3, some from newer MK games... and you'll have more options like:

- Pick a rock or bloody head from a MK4 stage and throw it to the enemy, you can practice the MK4 kombo: rock / teleport / spear and mix it with a lot of next generation moves.

- Uppercut your enemy to an upper level like in UMK3 but being able to spear him/her before landing to do multilevel kombos, something that was possible in MKAdv... we can have it here.

- Break Walls in a similar way to MKvsDCU

- Execute Air Kombos like in MKA but limited like a special move to avoid abuse, also the air kombo options and animations will be different for all fighters.

- Use kombat kodes to activate MAXIMUM DAMAGE, RAGE, AGRESSOR or X-BAR... this is still in discussion, the game will not need it, but it would add a lot of variety to the gameplay.

- Counter Icons, taken from MKD with more uses, I have something else in mind for this option.

- You wont get 100% kombos because there will be a damage reducing system during kombos, this will help to balance a lot the gameplay.

Some people have done very interesting works in MUGEN, you can see some interesting stuff in this videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB_9owuWSGU&playnext_from=TL&videos=uN7v03Da2io

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPFN33e8ytw&playnext_from=TL&videos=SXHecsKchLo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF7OohrmlSE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9mVCgQj6gc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBrr9QjIi3M&feature=related

Look at the floating blocks how they move during the video depending on the angle, and the animated portal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZkD2VXmi4M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsSYbG9EVDs&feature=related

Crazy ideas perhaps as a challenge for Arcade mode only:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBrr9QjIi3M&feature=related

This videos are not mine, but they proof that improving UMK3 is possible. The gameplay in some videos is not good at all, but the edits and the conceptual ideas are very interesting. Doing the right gameplay can only be done by true MK players, so that's what I'm looking for in here.

Ok, that's all I want to say, I'm working on something very good, I know everyone want to try a beta and stuff that's why I asked not be questioned about that subject on my first post. I need a little time to deliver playable results, but be with me on this; it is really plausible to make a very good MK game in MUGEN, if you don't like anything but UMK3 then don't play it... if you have something in mind or some questions just comment.
 
9.95

9.95

Champion
Worm, I think that, as everyone has said, the best thing to do is to first refine the basic gameplay of the game. Make gravity work properly, frame count match UMK3 correctly, etc... all the nuances that make the game so good.

One of the things that I think the majority of UMK3 players, and MKT players would love to see would be a very close re-creation of UMK3/MKT. A place to start would be re-balancing Noob Saibot(talk to Shock about how to do that).

Once you get the basic gameplay down, and a correct re-balancing of UMK3/MKT, then I would start having fun by adding the extras...that way you have MKT-Rebalance AND Super MKT(with your extra added moves and properties).
 
NinjaGrinder

NinjaGrinder

A living, Breathing Piece of Defecating Meat
You're wrong, I'm not a "n64mkt player". My videos back then were in n64 just because I didn't have a decent pc or any other way to show arcade combos. N64 was my alternative and was pretty fun to mess with. And I didn't even mention MKT once in my post, so you fail.
But you're right in one thing, I won't play nothing but the games that I like, I think is best that to dream with some hybrid 2d MK that never came out and mixing stuff so horribly, just for your own fan service, lol

You can do what you want with your free time, you got a life, a family, a job, etc but don't you ever, ever think a MK mugen could be possibly taken seriously, man! just do your thing, be a creator, instead of being merelly a player (lol, that was hilarious, maybe you're not that good a as player, got tired of being owned in the real game and now you want to create your own game to see if you can win or something like that jaajaja), if enough people want to waste their time with this nonsense, fine.

I won't just not play it. I won't even look at it :p UMK3 is fine, it's a great game and no mugen you ever make will replace that game. I'll do as you say: I'll play what I like and won't play this garbage (mugen). But, I can express my opinion, can't I? can't you deal with other people's opinions?
 
dreemernj

dreemernj

Ambassador
FrozenWorm said:
Well... I know you are a N64 MKT...

snip
Click to expand...
These vids mostly demonstrate a lot of the problems with most MUGEN games. A whole lot of hacked together sprites and what appears to be really bad basics.

So the "improvements" are in the sense that they added a bunch of stuff. It doesn't look any real improvements in terms of the game actually being better to play.
 
S

SplashChick

Noob
NinjaGrinder said:
You're wrong, I'm not a "n64mkt player". My videos back then were in n64 just because I didn't have a decent pc or any other way to show arcade combos. N64 was my alternative and was pretty fun to mess with. And I didn't even mention MKT once in my post, so you fail.
But you're right in one thing, I won't play nothing but the games that I like, I think is best that to dream with some hybrid 2d MK that never came out and mixing stuff so horribly, just for your own fan service, lol

You can do what you want with your free time, you got a life, a family, a job, etc but don't you ever, ever think a MK mugen could be possibly taken seriously, man! just do your thing, be a creator, instead of being merelly a player (lol, that was hilarious, maybe you're not that good a as player, got tired of being owned in the real game and now you want to create your own game to see if you can win or something like that jaajaja), if enough people want to waste their time with this nonsense, fine.

I won't just not play it. I won't even look at it :p UMK3 is fine, it's a great game and no mugen you ever make will replace that game. I'll do as you say: I'll play what I like and won't play this garbage (mugen). But, I can express my opinion, can't I? can't you deal with other people's opinions?
Click to expand...
Can you NOT come into this topic if you're just going to bitch about things you say you don't care about? Seriously.
 
NinjaGrinder

NinjaGrinder

A living, Breathing Piece of Defecating Meat
Like I said, I can express myself, deal with it. I didn't say I didn't care about mugen, I said is useless, horrible, makes no sense and it will never be a good thing, or a replacement for a good game. Also I said PLAYING mugen is a waste of time, and if people want to waste their time with this moronic games, that's fine.
 
F

FrozenWorm

Mortal
...

9.95 said:
Worm, I think that, as everyone has said, the best thing to do is to first refine the basic gameplay of the game. Make gravity work properly, frame count match UMK3 correctly, etc... all the nuances that make the game so good.

One of the things that I think the majority of UMK3 players, and MKT players would love to see would be a very close re-creation of UMK3/MKT. A place to start would be re-balancing Noob Saibot(talk to Shock about how to do that).

Once you get the basic gameplay down, and a correct re-balancing of UMK3/MKT, then I would start having fun by adding the extras...that way you have MKT-Rebalance AND Super MKT(with your extra added moves and properties).
Click to expand...
Yeap, and as I have replied to everyone that is exactly what I'm planning to do, and I'm open to the feedback and help any major UMK3 player can offer to make the gameplay as close as UMK3 as possible, but a lot of the stuffs I want to eventually add to the gameplay must be early coded because if that doesn't happen, this project will likely suffer a lot of inestability and bugs anywhere at the point the game crashes during a normal fight; this is what is happening to MKP right now for example.

As for Noob, I've thought a lot on this fighter, well... if you want, you can read what I think should fix his gameplay:
- No Shurikens, Reiko will feature all kind of Shurikens and Noob none at all.
- Blue Magic Fireball (also in air), just like in MK4; the blue color is because of his eyes, to remind his origins and is based in MKTE (GBA) in wich he has a blue projectile.
- Several options involving Portals, inspired in his "Black Hole" (MKA) and his "Teleport Throw" (UMK3) The Teleport Throw will have an effect that shows he uses portals to go up, then appear in the ground to give more sense to this move, and so he will be able to further explode this ability in different ways, also using his scythe (MK4) but not as a stance, just as regular moves. If you remember the story mode in MKA, when Taven was fighting the Brotherhood of Shadows, those guys were all about portals. I want to gove Noob that feature, mixed with the weapon attacks and perhaps some extended shadow clone ability. One example would be he opens a portal behind him, then tosses the Scythe spinning, the scythe will appear in the opponent's back spinning and hitting. This weapon will dissapear magically everytime Noob uses it, sort of Kahn's Hammer... but with a blue effect.

So, the cloud would be basically eliminated from his strategic gameplay... ok, I'll say it. He will still have it, but using it will counsume a Counter Icon (the MKD counter icons remember?) this icons will be use to limit some moves in this game, Jade's Invincibility will consume one Counter Icon as well, she will be able to do that move while being juggled as well, to break juggles. Basically all fighters will have moves that consume Counter Icons, you'll have 3 per fight. So, basically I'll change Noob a lot to balance him, while he will have moves from almost all of the MK games in wich he appears, just like Scorpion and everyone else. I'm listening to opinions and other ideas to balance this character.

To NinjaGrinder: I'm sorry, didn't mean any disrespect to you, seriously. Too bad you are against this project, feel free to post... I have nothing against opinions, tho it would be great if you wait a little, so you can post basing on something everyone can try out, and not just repeating what you have already said over and over. No hard feelings bro.

Finally, I'm working hard to deliver the beta test some people here are asking. It is a little bit hard because, like I said before I'm a married guy, and I study and work... but it wont take too much time. Please understand my position ok? all I ask is a little of patience and we'll start working together as a team to have the MK game we want.

Edit: Look what this guy is doing haha: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDG4VvQAb8g is crazy...!!!
 
9.95

9.95

Champion
Scheisse said:
If you plan on having that much content in your game it will never be good. That many specials for each character would take a year for a professional team to balance. If you want to make a good game, take the offer that Shock gave you and work with him from the beginning. If you are just going to throw a ton of content in a game, that will not make it a good game. You are doing exactly the same thing that has happened in all of the 3D MKs.

The fighting system makes a fighting game good. Pretty simple concept and you should feel lucky that there are knowledgeable people more than willing to help you achieve that. Put more effort into the game than just adding specials and do what every other MK Mugen dev has failed to do. You are getting way to far ahead of yourself, you can always add that content after you have a stable release. The MK team didn't make every special for every character at once, and I don't know how you think you can do it, and do it better than an experienced team.

If you really want to help the MK Mugen scene, program Mugen so that the core engine will play like MK and then package it and have that floating around the web for others to use. Otherwise this circle of fail will just go on forever.
Click to expand...
Basically what I was going to say in a nutshell... Worm, the most important thing is getting the engine to actually FEEL like UMK3... not to add as many specials as possible and then deal with the fighting engine later. You're going to wind up creating a horribly broken game that very few people will want to play if you don't do this correctly. AS Scheisse said, take advantage of what you have at your disposal and building the correct engine. If you want YOUR MK Mugen game to work out, then dont do what the other teams did... just re-create and re-balance based on what the top players here tell you that characters need... and instead of a game like MKP that gets completely ignored, you'll have a game that people feel is truly made for them, with real player input and the balances and tweaks necessary to make the game play well.
 
S

SplashChick

Noob
Exactly, just look at The Black Heart, he didn't rip anything, he created the whole thing from the ground up and didn't release the game until the fighting engine functioned as well as it could.
 
F

FrozenWorm

Mortal
Ok, I'll take that into account. But I can't help adding moves to the fighters :D I don't think 15 moves per character would make a game impossible to balance, Tekken have about 500 moves... I mean, having a 5 moves per character game would be pointless, for that porpouse I rather stick to UMK3.

The basic engine and right gameplay is a first importance issue, but not adding anything until it's done seems to me unnecessary. I know the most important part is the gameplay (that's the reason I came here), but the new moves are way too many edits, a huge amount of work, and it is very important to start working on it as soon as possible too.

I see no contradiction in working on both areas at the same time, obviously for a first try the first character will have only 2 or 3 special moves and until that isn't finish and well balanced more characters are not gonna be added to the game, when more characters start to be added to the game, the moves (already in the works) will be added as well and we will take all the needed time to play it and search for bugs or fix the balance.

Does it sound ok?
 
MKK hanzo

MKK hanzo

Moderator
Scheisse said:
Tekken is a completely different game, and a 3D game at that. Most of the moves in that game are glorified normals, are reused with different characters and implemented in every game that they have made since Tekken 1.



No. I am officially done with this thread though, good luck.

Why ask for input if you aren't going to use it? You are going to make a game for other Mugen MK players/designers, and that is all.
Click to expand...
This. The bold part marks it.

Frozen: The best advice that EVERYONE here has given you is: Start with a basic engine, 2 chars, no sp moves and try to match UMK3.
 
oBryant

oBryant

Apprentice
Yo guys I'm going to make a umk3 mirror type game. its going to be called ultmiate imortal kombat: the streets.. Any input on how the game should be?
 
F

FrozenWorm

Mortal
Scheisse said:
Tekken is a completely different game, and a 3D game at that. Most of the moves in that game are glorified normals, are reused with different characters and implemented in every game that they have made since Tekken 1.



No. I am officially done with this thread though, good luck.

Why ask for input if you aren't going to use it? You are going to make a game for other Mugen MK players/designers, and that is all.
Click to expand...
Ok, we'll do it the way you and others are suggesting. I'm really interested in having the most accurate gameplay, it is my first priority. Also, I think I "might" take less than especting in giving you guys the test beta you were asking, tho... it will need a lot of work (gameplay wise) ok?
 
S

SplashChick

Noob
FrozenWorm said:
Ok, we'll do it the way you and others are suggesting. I'm really interested in having the most accurate gameplay, it is my first priority. Also, I think I "might" take less than especting in giving you guys the test beta you were asking, tho... it will need a lot of work (gameplay wise) ok?
Click to expand...
Thank you. You're better than other MUGEN programmers.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
I think there's a language barrier, and there's also a serious lack of comprehension going on too. Frozenworm, you suggest having 15 moves and say it won't be hard to balance, but I honestly don't believe these programmers know how to balance, let alone program moves to work like they do in MK. I've never seen that happen yet in a MUGEN MK game. This is why they need to come here and talk, and ask questions.

In the videos you show, and the things you describe, their and your definition of "improving" UMK3 is very different from the majority on a site like this. All those added moves and animations just make it harder to make a decent game. The first main goal of these projects should be to accurately recreate the gameplay of UMK3, with the existing characters working 100%. Then add a move in here and there, but I can already tell the new systems are fundamentally different, and flawed. You're playing a game that looks like an MK game, but doesn't play like one and that's the part where players will get tired of it after one day.

I don't understand how you don't have one or two playable characters and a stage we can test already. In the time it takes you to produce that, your team will add in more useless stuff, create more frames of animation for characters like Shao Kahn and Kintaro who will never be played on a serious level for anyone. I do like the animations I've seen, don't get me wrong, but the gameplay isn't ready for that, not even close. There seems to be more concern with how things look, and how much is up to date with the style of new games, than just getting stuff working, and it also seems like none of these programmers care to do that, just make a game that looks like a glorified flash movie of moves, combos, and fatalities. It's unplayable, and not fun.
 
F

FrozenWorm

Mortal
I've got it, it will be the way you say. I'll stop posting here until I give you the beta ok Shock? they're not adding new moves or anything like that. Don't worry.

My first pryority, like I said before is to get the best possible gameplay, and I'm ready to do what it takes to make it possible. So, I'm aware you and others have had serious conversations with people in charge of MUGEN projects and they have let your hopes down. This is not what I'm intending here, please have a little confidence in me, and back me up on this. You wont regret it, I promise.

Edit: For those of you who want to help, (programmers, editors and people who know a lot of how UMK3 works) please send me a PM and we'll discuss. I'm open to people with pasion, capacity and knowledge.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
It's not that we can't discuss it here, it's that you gotta ask the right questions, rather than saying "This is a list of 14 changes we've made to Scorpion, before even getting the gameplay working right." The reason i say we need something to test is because we won't know what's truly wrong until we play it. Even a video clip with collision boxes turned on would be enough to get started.
 
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