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FrozenWorm

Noob
I'd like to inform here that a new MUGEN project is about to be created, I wanted to invite you guys just for fun to join me in my dream (wich is very real) and imagine this as if it were almost finished.

The game is not completely in 0%, I can safely say that. I have all of the MK1, MK2, MK3, UMK3 and MKT sprites, plus a lot of new edits and all kind of stuff and already programmed a very good percentage of engine, just don't ask me more details about the progress because I cannot give it right now, just asure you guys, you'll see a beta before the release of MK9.

Now, there're too many ideas, systems, characters and stuff to describe it all in here, but I'll post something today, and something more soon if the topic is well received. Now, let me explain the basic part of this stuff:

- It will have the closest engine you have never seen in MUGEN to the actual UMK3 gameplay.
- All of UMK3 characters, all of them with new moves.
- Almost all the new special moves that have been seen in recent MK official games.
- Will be impossible to do 100% kombos or infinites.
- Kombat Kodes
- Special animations to stand up after losing a round.
- Alternative versions for some characters hidden the way it was in MKT like:
* Old Shang Tsung (MK1)
* Minotaur Motaro
* Dark Raiden
* Dark Kahn
* Classic Blaze (MKDA)
* Zombie Liu Kang
- New characters, and some of them very important and never before seen in 2D like:
* Onaga
* Blaze (MKA)
* Moloch
* Jarek
* Tanya
- Air kombos, inspired from MKA but very different for each fighter, and limited.
- Weapon System for some characters inspired both in MK4 and MKA, also stances for others, but not all of them will have that feature.
- Endings
- Balance on all fighters including Goro, Kintaro, Shao Kahn and Motaro, all of them will have a playability very close to normal fighters.
- Can pick un rocks/heads from the ground and toss them to the opponent ala MK4.

Ok, I'll stop in here... and resume it like this: The idea is to put in every character the feeling of having the best from all of their versions in all MK games, including the 3D ones, having a balanced game, fighters with about 15 moves, new basic moves and options, all of the "alities" some of them original, some of them copied from newer MK games.

Now, I'll go a little bit further... imagine having the following options in kombat kodes:
- Kombos Disable
- Run Disable
- Agressor Enable (with a little new surprise)
- Maximum Damage enable
- Counter Icons enable (from the latest MK games, to break kombos)
- Rage Enable
- X Bar Enable (just the way it would be in MK9)

Now this game would have different systems you can enable before fighting, to emulate something close to MK1/2, MK3, MK4, MKA, MKvsDCU and MK9 depending on your choice, add to that almost all the kombat kodes we had in UMK3/MKT and some from MK4 like Red Rain... Ok, does it sound crazy? now listen... this is a real deal, and you will be able to input more than one kode before fighting.

Hahaha, I'm pretty sure a lot of people here would think I'm telling lies in here, but the good news is... I'm not.

Just wanna hear some opinions, ideas and stuff like that to have fun whenever I'll enter this forum, soon you'll have some pictures, a little bit after that you'll have videos.

Note: I'm not talking AT ALL about:
- Progress
- Proving anything
- Programming
- Team (unless you want to help)

That would be all, for those of you who doesn't believe what I just say and want to post... just take it like imaginating the ideal best MK game ever, and post something crazy, time will tell ok?
 
RoGE

RoGE

Noob
Well... I think you should just start with one character and send it here and we can test how accurate it is and what you can improve on.
 
F

FrozenWorm

Noob
Obviously that's likely going to happen at some level... but what I wanted was to discuss the kombat kodes part, particularly the idea of giving this game that many options instead of just one:
- Agressor (MKT)
- Rage (MKvsDCU)
- X Bar (MK9)

This are the 3 original meters from all the 3 versions of MK3... I wanted to discuss this in here, and get some ideas of what people would like to have done in UMK3 to make it even better... besides balance, eliminating infinites and 100% kombos and more characters.
 
dreemernj

dreemernj

Ambassador
I haven't really used the Rage Bar. X Bar isn't out yet. But I've played MKT quite a bit so I would like to never see Aggressor in a video game ever again.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
The secrecy is to get you to play the games that are "so close" to UMK3 but never are. If you want one close to UMK3, have the programmers work with me on it.
 
MKK hanzo

MKK hanzo

Moderator
Scheisse said:
Aggressor and Rage were both trash, and I agree with Hanzo.

Why all the secrecy? That is what all Mugen game "developers" do and they always seem to fail. If you want a good game instead of a clusterfuck of garbage, maybe you should start with the basics first. You aren't Ed Boon, you don't own MK, there is no need to be secretive. People have been let down time and time again with Mugen MK and you aren't going to create any kind of hype for it unless you actually show some progress towards something that resembles MK.

You are getting way too far ahead of yourself by worrying about features instead of the core engine that may not be fixable when you are done piling 500 layers on top of it. You could use Mugen on a very basic level and make a good game out of it, but it would be a lot of work, and we will most likely never see it.
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Bolded part: Specially when the only thing he has is theory fighter...

FRIENDLY HINT: Stop wasting your time and everyones and use those skills you have (cause you are GOOD at MK and I can vouch on it) and polish yourself at UMK3 or another competitive game if you want.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
I guarantee if I had some dedicated MUGEN programmers at my disposal I'd have a 90% accurate MK game going in a week. Getting down sweeps would be an issue. It has a solution but it's convoluted and tedious. I had a pretty decent Scorpion that I worked on years ago with Konqrr, but the idea is to create a basic set of standards for the characters to follow so you don't have to program basics for everyone, only once and the collisions, frame counts and other thing do the rest. Until someone presents a MUGEN game that they want direct input from the top players, I really don't want to see any more MUGEN hype on here.
 
S

SplashChick

Noob
Shock said:
I guarantee if I had some dedicated MUGEN programmers at my disposal I'd have a 90% accurate MK game going in a week. Getting down sweeps would be an issue. It has a solution but it's convoluted and tedious. I had a pretty decent Scorpion that I worked on years ago with Konqrr, but the idea is to create a basic set of standards for the characters to follow so you don't have to program basics for everyone, only once and the collisions, frame counts and other thing do the rest. Until someone presents a MUGEN game that they want direct input from the top players, I really don't want to see any more MUGEN hype on here.
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This! I've never seen a MUGEN project, especially one that was for MK, that wasn't a horrendous piece of trash, and it's probably related to the fact that every MUGEN creator I seem to see is a secretive "don't steal my work" type of hypocritical jerkoff.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're like that, or that we can't appreciate what it is you're trying to do, but if you REALLY want to get something made that doesn't suck total ass, especially with MUGEN, you're gonna need all of the assistance and competitive input you can get. You're gonna have to build it from the ground up, getting all the small technical bits worked out before you can worry about all the little features you want to add, and you're going to have to realize that unless you want to do the whole thing by yourself(which can only make it suck), you're going to have to do what's best for the project and NOT dictate how everything is going to go. One of the biggest problems that plagues indie developers of any kind is that they think the project is their baby and that every little detail has to be the way THEY dictate it. That'll only make your project suck ass and your partners hate your selfish guts. You're already ripping all your sprites and concepts from existing material, so don't make the mistake of thinking you're original.

Wow I did not intend to turn this into a rant.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
Seriously I would say, throw all the extra crap anyone has ever made that didn't previously exist in a 2D MK game to the side for now, and go back to the gameplay, get that right by taking the advice of real players, THEN add new garbage. Give us a game with one stage and two example characters to mess around with and we will give you direct feed back as to what is wrong and needs to be fixed before any release comes out. No matter what any MUGEN programmer thinks they know about MK, they don't know much of anything, and certainly not as much as the players here.

I've never seen a single MUGEN game that even has remotely accurate collision boxes, and I've worked with two different projects on this but they just don't get it. I know a little bit about MUGEN coding but not a lot, and virtually all MK concepts can be duplicated through some creativity but it'll never play 100% correctly. I think there's room for error and create some new concepts or tweak the gameplay slightly, but it always seems like these guys never want to go the extra mile and actually get to the true impasse where the coding conflicts to a point that you have no choice but to accept a certain flaw. Instead, just neglect it altogether. I've even gotten the excuse "Well, I'm a graphics guy and really want to work with you, but the programmers don't want to do anything other than what they want to do."

I'm sorry if this sounds angry but I've been dealing with this for a very long time and every time a new game comes along, all the focus goes into the nonsense around the gameplay and these games are NEVER fun to play and always get forgotten.
 
S

SplashChick

Noob
Shock said:
I've even gotten the excuse "Well, I'm a graphics guy and really want to work with you, but the programmers don't want to do anything other than what they want to do."
Click to expand...
Hey, so I guess it's not just the people I've met. I'm pretty sure this is the exact reason why every MUGEN game ever sucks so hard. Guys, you're stealing your sprites, your backgrounds, your fighting systems, and every one of your god damn concepts. Stop acting like this is all your idea and like you're the only one who knows what's best for it.
 
MKK hanzo

MKK hanzo

Moderator
SplashChick said:
Hey, so I guess it's not just the people I've met. I'm pretty sure this is the exact reason why every MUGEN game ever sucks so hard. Guys, you're stealing your sprites, your backgrounds, your fighting systems, and every one of your god damn concepts. Stop acting like this is all your idea and like you're the only one who knows what's best for it.
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That, and the fact that if they are inviting ppl to test a game but are not open to feedback and suggestions... Why are they then wasting their time? Keep your Ultra MK Mugen Projetc 8.92 for themselves and GTFO.
 
F

FrozenWorm

Noob
...

Yeap Shock and Hanzo, you both have good points...

Don't worry guys, I wont be secretive at all with this project, just wait a little bit please and you (Shock) will get involved as much as you want and deal with this project as if it were your baby.

I do have a vision, this kombat kodes and fighting systems have to be programmed in early steps of the project so the engine is solid and not propense to crash... that's why I was asking.

THE AGRESSOR SYSTEM: Would be something like an extra... you'll have to kombat kode it in order to use it, and it will feature INSTANT FATALITIES for all characters... like for example if the last attack kills you, you'll die in a fatality, or if you die, and there's still AGRESSOR bar, you'll just need to do an uppercut to behead, or a kinetic slam to do the fatality, even some fireballs will explode the opponent, Kabal's dash will cause old Jade's animality effect on the opponent... something like Sindel's hair fatality... so you'll have access to very simple, yet interesting extra ways to kill your opponent.

It would be a fashion system, you could explore to cause more damage or get some flashier fights.... as you can see, I'm not joking in here, this ideas are not to create an interesting discussion but plans for a next-to-be-seen MK project.

And the reason I'm posting in here is because you guys are awesome, this is the only play in wich I've seen so much criticism to MK9 just based on a couple of videos... that's something I gotta use, well... we'll keep discussing soon, and wait a little and you'll see and test some progress ok?

Note: Hanzo, I know enough about MK and other fighting games, some people here know that, but I don't consider myself a player, it's been too many years since I was competitive and I no longer care much about being in the competitive band... I found in MUGEN the tool to be a creator instead merelly a player and I enjoy much more that area.

As you might have noticed it's been a long time since I disapeared from the forums, not because I couldn't carry on with my project but because I have a life, now I'm married with a very awesome girl and because of the university I haven't had so much time. Recently someone contacted me because of my editing skills and the MUGEN world was open for me again.

The reason I don't wanted to discuss much about the progress of this project and other details are kinda my past with MKP, so I just want to ask you guys to wait a little... hopefully less than a month. The engine is brand new, not the one used in MKP, I don't know anything about programming, I'm an editor and have some knowledge on fighting games.

This project is meant to be unmatchable, and the only one in the MK MUGEN comunity, I'm planning to have a lot of feedback from some people in here and it's not going to feed the ego of the developers, is not going to be encripted or hidden and the plan is to have everything that was good or interesting from every single MK game... I think it is a pretty promising and good job, right now I also think it's in good hands and with some of the best MK players giving some feedback I'll make sure the playability will be what we all want.

Thanks for the comments.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
Tell whoever is programming moves, velocities, collisions, timers, triggers, commands, etc, to sign up here and post, because we can answer everything. I'm saying this one more time, give us an example to test, two characters, one stage. I don't care whose baby it is, or who the baby daddy is, or whatever, we wanna see real results and we won't see that until the programmers collaborate with the players.
 
F

FrozenWorm

Noob
Shock said:
Tell whoever is programming moves, velocities, collisions, timers, triggers, commands, etc, to sign up here and post, because we can answer everything. I'm saying this one more time, give us an example to test, two characters, one stage. I don't care whose baby it is, or who the baby daddy is, or whatever, we wanna see real results and we won't see that until the programmers collaborate with the players.
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Yeap, same here. Just, like I said before give me a month and I'll give you a beta for you to try it, and everything you point will be likely taken into serious consideration or done ok? ;)
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
FrozenWorm said:
Yeap, same here. Just, like I said before give me a month and I'll give you a beta for you to try it, and everything you point will be likely taken into serious consideration or done ok? ;)
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The thing is, we don't want what we say to be taken as suggestions, or under consideration. What we tell the programmers is wrong, needs to be fixed or don't release it. Otherwise it's a glorified Flash Animation. Come back in a month, let us Beta Test, get the programmers to post here and we'll give them everything they need to know.

And oBryant, to be honest, it's more like MUGEN programmers shat all over our dreams.
 
S

SplashChick

Noob
Shock said:
The thing is, we don't want what we say to be taken as suggestions, or under consideration. What we tell the programmers is wrong, needs to be fixed or don't release it. Otherwise it's a glorified Flash Animation. Come back in a month, let us Beta Test, get the programmers to post here and we'll give them everything they need to know.

And oBryant, to be honest, it's more like MUGEN programmers shat all over our dreams.
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This for sure. Go to YouTube and search for Mortal Kombat MUGEN. Then cry your eyes out, either because every one of them is so fucking horrible, or because the 300 recolored ninjas are destroying your retinas in an array of vibrant, stupidly unnecessary colors.
 
dreemernj

dreemernj

Ambassador
SplashChick said:
Holy shit, this is actually really good.

A REALLY GOOD MUGEN GAME?!?!?

My world just got turned upside down.
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Truth. I always felt MUGEN was capable of being used for a real game but it just never seemed to happen. Glad to see it has happened.

In the case of this particular thread it would probably be helpful if a single character of this game was posted for testing accuracy of hitboxes and general mechanics.

I would love to see a MUGEN MK character that has the proper hitboxes (1 cold box and a maximum of 1 hot box), working run, proper move canceling, etc.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
dreemernj said:
Truth. I always felt MUGEN was capable of being used for a real game but it just never seemed to happen. Glad to see it has happened.

In the case of this particular thread it would probably be helpful if a single character of this game was posted for testing accuracy of hitboxes and general mechanics.

I would love to see a MUGEN MK character that has the proper hitboxes (1 cold box and a maximum of 1 hot box), working run, proper move canceling, etc.
Click to expand...
When I made Scorpion with Konqrr we had just about all the hitboxes done to 99% accuracy but I had issues with push boxes, which I know can be solved, I just didn't know how. What I did have worked pretty well overall, and I even took a stab at getting alternating HP and LPs and got that working to what I would say was 85%, vs maybe 50% or less from what I've seen in most MUGEN MKs. The alternating worked perfectly but I needed some timers and a way to make them cancel only after a certain duration while having the option to still activate the next jab within that duration.
 
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