x-ray in hgh level gameplay

[Evil_Riu48]

you guys really think x-ray will be use a lot in high level play? something tells me x-ray will not be use much in high level play the super version of special moves looks really good and like a smarter way to use your meter.

as of today i only see myself saving meter for an x-ray attack only if the super attacks for my character sux.

what do you guys think?

 

[Juggs]

Won't know until we play the game.

 

[STORMS]

you guys really think x-ray will be use a lot in high level play? something tells me x-ray will not be use much in high level play the super version of special moves looks really good and like a smarter way to use your meter.

as of today i only see myself saving meter for an x-ray attack only if the super attacks for my character sux.

what do you guys think?

I see it as an Ultra in SF... gotta wait for the right time, either that or only use a breaker if the round/match depended on it, i.e. in 2nd Round I'll lose the match if I lose this round.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

Won't know until we play the game.

not really a good exemple is sub zero just look at how slow is his xray attack and how his super move work.

 

[Check]

you guys really think x-ray will be use a lot in high level play? something tells me x-ray will not be use much in high level play the super version of special moves looks really good and like a smarter way to use your meter.

what do you guys think?

Thats what i think as well.

special meter = 1 bar
x ray = 3 bars

hmmm.... tough choice ;/

Why waste your meter? What if you need it for breakers? The solution is simple.


comboing into x ray will be its only use, and that will depend on 1) how much life they have, 2) how much meter they have.

 

[TWZTID]

i wonder if the breaker can be used to break the xray combo.......... any word?

 

[STORMS]

i wonder if the breaker can be used to break the xray combo.......... any word?

Considering it looks to be the same as an Ultra in SF (if you connect it, you connect it) once you successfully pull off an X-ray attack, they cannot block it or break it. Considering the "theatrical" aspect of it too... very doubtful.

 

[Shark Tank]

@Storm dawg, I don't think you'll be able to break out of air throws either, but that is another topic :bigsmile:

As far as X-rays, It may vary on the character, some might have a really good x-ray, and terrible "EX" moves(I think we need another way to adress them), while others might have really good "EXs" that it wouldn't be worth it to save into X-rays if there anything below excellent. Ofcourse I'll wait and see, either might be generally bad for all characters. If we start seeing grab x-rays *cough*JAX*cough* that whole characters game might just be from setting up that x-ray grab if their combo potential is shit.

Breakers is another factor, and I think the value of those will depend on how fast meter builds, and how lethal damage is in general, like 60% AVG combo lethal or 30% AVG combo lethal.

*EDIT, yet another factor I didn't think of is if that meter carries over from previous rounds. Getting bodied one round can carry over the next round for quick meter usage

 

[Krayzie]

I think I know what you are trying to say, Riu.

As much as an X-Ray can be compared to an Ultra in retrospect to the damage and flashy finishers on SSFIV, it will act as more of a Super than an Ultra due to the player having to save meter for both, EX-Type of specials and the Super itself. I will agree that it wont work exactly as an Ultra works on SSFIV, but you will need to use it.

Another thing I believe we have to consider is how quick you are able to manage meter, what raises your meter, and how much do you really have to depend on it? Because if you can get meter quick, you will definitely see people taking advantage of a Super more than if it takes longer to get a full Super meter.

 

[STORMS]

Compared to what? Do we know anything other than that? Nope, won't until the game comes out.

Why don;t I just shut the site down until the game drops too, Juggs?

C'mon, man MK9 is like a puzzle to us at this point and all we're trying to do is put the pieces together. Don't be the one blowing the pieces off the table!

 

[STORMS]

Another thing I believe we have to consider is how quick you are able to manage meter, what raises your meter, and how much do you really have to depend on it? Because if you can get meter quick, you will definitely see people taking advantage of a Super more than if it takes longer to get a full Super meter.

Well, in the gameplay vids from PAX, etc that we saw... those meters became "flashy" quick, but then again you can get an Ultra in SF pretty fast too. That raises some speculation IMO.

Gotta have faith.

 

[THTB]

I can't see it being used too much...not with breakers using the exact same meter.

At this point, it's like SFIV's Super meter...too much other useful shit consumes that very meter. Not to mention, it doesn't seem to be invincibility frames. In one of the more recent vids posted here, Sub was actually HIT out of his X-Ray's startup, so as a "reversal", I'm pretty sure they'd be very weak. As far as comboing into them goes...the scaling seems really strict, as in naked X-Rays are doing just as much damage as combos into X-Ray.

 

[Krayzie]

I can't see it being used too much...not with breakers using the exact same meter.

At this point, it's like SFIV's Super meter...too much other useful shit consumes that very meter. Not to mention, it doesn't seem to be invincibility frames. In one of the more recent vids posted here, Sub was actually HIT out of his X-Ray's startup, so as a "reversal", I'm pretty sure they'd be very weak. As far as comboing into them goes...the scaling seems really strict, as in naked X-Rays are doing just as much damage as combos into X-Ray.

Agreed.

I completely forgot that breakers use meter. This changes my entire frame of thought.

 

[Juggs]

=

C'mon, man MK9 is like a puzzle to us at this point and all we're trying to do is put the pieces together. Don't be the one blowing the pieces off the table!

No point in speculating specific gimmicks in this game when we have such little information. Especially, and more importantly, when you are asking how it will effect high level gameplay. We don't even know what high level gameplay for this game is going to look like, if such a thing will even exist for this game. It's worse than theory fighter, because we have no idea how this game works, or even if what we've seen is the final product. It's kinda like discussing tiers before the game even comes out, pointless.

 

[THTB]

Doesn't mean we can't speculate what we see. Not like it's gonna harm anything. People here have enough of an understanding of fighters to see how some things could potentially impact gameplay.

 

[Juggs]

Doesn't mean we can't speculate what we see. Not like it's gonna harm anything. People here have enough of an understanding of fighters to see how some things could potentially impact gameplay.

Didn't say you couldn't. I said we won't know until the game comes out. Was done with this thread after that, until someone says "not really". It's just hard to ignore false statements. It's like when before SF4 came out, people had no idea how the ultra's would work. Even when the SF games play so similarly, you couldn't even begin to speculate until you actually played the game. When you introduce something new, that's one thing, but when all of the gameplay is different plus there's something new added that has never been there before... you can't say anything with any sort of justification.

 

[STORMS]

Didn't say you couldn't. I said we won't know until the game comes out. Was done with this thread after that, until someone says "not really". It's just hard to ignore false statements. It's like when before SF4 came out, people had no idea how the ultra's would work. Even when the SF games play so similarly, you couldn't even begin to speculate until you actually played the game. When you introduce something new, that's one thing, but when all of the gameplay is different plus there's something new added that has never been there before... you can't say anything with any sort of justification.

Juggs, that's obvious that we "won't know" until the game comes out but there is no reason to cast any kind of negativity on someone's post by trying to question them and make them look dumb.

Juggs, if you have a response to this, PM me.

BACK TO TOPIC.

 

[Check]

The damage doing nearly the same as a regular combo (what? 15% more?) shows how useless itll be.

Itll be those additional properties (disables your block or whatever) that will urge players to want to use them, say, raiden for example in MKDC, doing a popup, a combo, then hitting them with rage as they are still in the air, because once they land, they eat rage exploits all day.

as mentioned... comboing into xrays... only use... breakers and promoves and far more important, espicially with how fast the promove meter builds.

however, if that second and 3rd meter build as fast as bone is suggesting, then yes, mk9 will be a broken mess.

meter is lame. bring back 3 breakers per match.... then a chance to build meter for a breaker after that. a seperate meter for breakers would work as well.. that is something i suggested to Paulo long ago

 

[Juggs]

Juggs, that's obvious that we "won't know" until the game comes out but there is no reason to cast any kind of negativity on someone's post by trying to question them and make them look dumb.

Juggs, if you have a response to this, PM me.

BACK TO TOPIC.

So I can't answer his question? He asked what we think, I said we won't know until the game comes out. He tries to say that isn't true, that we know that Sub-Zero's X-Ray looks slower then the rest that they showed. Which tells us nothing about anything, except that it looks slower then the other ones. We don't know how X-Ray will effect high level gameplay until we actually see in detail and in depth how the X-Ray's work.

The negativity started with you STORMS, so I don't know what you're talking about there.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

meter is lame. bring back 3 breakers per match.... then a chance to build meter for a breaker after that. a seperate meter for breakers would work as well.. that is something i suggested to Paulo long ago

3 breakers per game then no more breakers after that sounds good to me. a seperate meter for breakers is a great idea man this why they should get check in.

 

[BecomingDeath13]

3 breakers per game then no more breakers after that sounds good to me. a seperate meter for breakers is a great idea man this why they should get check in.

Mk had a 3 breaker limit. I like how the meter is set up so far. The breakers aren't super easy too obtain. I do worry about how X-rays will fit into high level game play though. I remember seeing a pax video where two random people were going at it and player 2 was getting his ass whooped. He i think had a full super meter by the end of the 1st round. That's the big thing that kinda scared me, but idk maybe I'm worrying over nothing and it could be decently balanced. The guy kicking ass had around 1-1 and a half bars so I'm not sure yet. I'm not entirely against the super bar, but I'm not entirely for it either... Guess we'll have too wait and see.

 

[Mr Roguelike]

I'm not entirely against the super bar, but I'm not entirely for it either... Guess we'll have too wait and see.

This is where I'm sitting too, but mostly because of my SSF4 experience of winning/losing more games than not to ultras (usually directly). Mainly I want to know what effects it going up, being more aggressive or taking more damage (again with the Street Fighter, if it would be like the super or ultra bars respectively).

 

[BecomingDeath13]

This is where I'm sitting too, but mostly because of my SSF4 experience of winning/losing more games than not to ultras (usually directly). Mainly I want to know what effects it going up, being more aggressive or taking more damage (again with the Street Fighter, if it would be like the super or ultra bars respectively).

Exactly my reasons for this. If we all knew exactly what caused the bar too rise it'd be easier to determine exactly how much the super meters would control the matches. If it turns into game that controlled by the bar then I'll be pissed, but I'm a die hard mk fan so I'll still wind up purchasing the game lol

 

[ChaosTheory]

This is where I'm sitting too, but mostly because of my SSF4 experience of winning/losing more games than not to ultras (usually directly).

I think this is the mistake a lot of you guys are making that is causing concern for yourself. You're comparing MK9's meter to SFIV's Revenge meter. What you should be comparing it to is the Super meter. Some of you are acting like X-Rays will fly around like SFIV Ultras, when really they'll be more-or-less as prevalent as Supers.

Thinking of them like that is more accurate in my opinion. X-Rays are about like Supers. Breakers are about like FADC's. Enhanced moves are about like EX moves. So how often do you see guys saving up a full meter and using Supers (and using them effectively) in SFIV? That's probably a closer estimation to how often you'll see X-Rays in MK9.

Another thing I think people are overreacting to is the "status effects" they mentioned some X-Rays will yield. I don't think they're going to disable your block for half the round or disable your jump half the round or anything like that. I actually think we've already seen one of the effects. Go back and look at Kung Lao do his X-Ray in the Dead Pool. He lands it, the opponent staggers for like a second and Kung Lao is able to quickly dash forward and finish with another ground-dial. The combo ended up being a little over 35% or something, I believe.

Personally, that's the kind of stuff I'm expecting. I don't see any grounds to assume the game-breaking stuff some of you expect will be there.

 

[STORMS]

I think this is the mistake a lot of you guys are making that is causing concern for yourself. You're comparing MK9's meter to SFIV's Revenge meter. What you should be comparing it to is the Super meter. Some of you are acting like X-Rays will fly around like SFIV Ultras, when really they'll be more-or-less as prevalent as Supers.

Thinking of them like that is more accurate in my opinion. X-Rays are about like Supers. Breakers are about like FADC's. Enhanced moves are about like EX moves. So how often do you see guys saving up a full meter and using Supers (and using them effectively) in SFIV? That's probably a closer estimation to how often you'll see X-Rays in MK9.

Another thing I think people are overreacting to is the "status effects" they mentioned some X-Rays will yield. I don't think they're going to disable your block for half the round or disable your jump half the round or anything like that. I actually think we've already seen one of the effects. Go back and look at Kung Lao do his X-Ray in the Dead Pool. He lands it, the opponent staggers for like a second and Kung Lao is able to quickly dash forward and finish with another ground-dial. The combo ended up being a little over 35% or something, I believe.

Personally, that's the kind of stuff I'm expecting. I don't see any grounds to assume the game-breaking stuff some of you expect will be there.

I think the main reason some of are comparing x-rays to ultras is the damage factor. They definitely have the potential to live up to ultras in that aspect. And another reason for it is simply because its the best thing to compare it to.

Supers take off at most 30%? while ultras seem to take off obviously alot more. Now when comparing X-ray attacks... so far we've seen an X-ray that takes off up to a mid-40%(?).

Regardless, I agree & disagree with you. But very good perspective, Chaos.