Tom Brady's MK9 Matchup Chart (2/17)

[OnizukaPM]

LoLOLOPOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOOLOL

Sub isnt bottom5, face it

corner game + fastest d4 = better than bottom5 char

 

[Killphil]

Damn, inb4 "lol at ur sig" posts all over the place. Generally every character takes no skill to use...if you want to lose every game you play. I have a few qualms about the list but it mostly has to do with Skarlet. I can't comment on certain other characters though.

 

[salvificblood]

LoLOLOPOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOOLOL

Sub isnt bottom5, face it

corner game + fastest d4 = better than bottom5 char

It's going to take people who played in the old style of Sub-Zero to realise thatSubis now 100% about spacing off his ridiculous d4, sets up so much, and the fact it only does 3% means nothing. That's like saying Sonya's d4 only does 3%.

 

[Zoidberg747]

LoLOLOPOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOOLOL

Sub isnt bottom5, face it

corner game + fastest d4 = better than bottom5 char

You just described Baraka, and he is still bottom five lol.

Corner game's are overrated unless they are Jax's

 

[salvificblood]

You just described Baraka, and he is still bottom five lol.

Corner game's are overrated unless they are Jax's

Sub has way better footsies than Baraka, in general, though.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Every character has good corner game.

 

[salvificblood]

Every character has good corner game.

Sub-Zero's corner traps are very good. 212, clone, or 21, clone, and the only thing you're doing is neutral jumping, which I will 22 you for. Not every character has this.

I also have a setup that nobody else uses off 212, clone. If you remain in crouch block behind the clone and tryto fuzzy the f4, iceball, I'll stand just at the very edge of my clone and charge the b2, if you jump, I will back dash cancel into 22. If you remain static, I will freeze you. Sub can get inside your head in the corner.

 

[Zoidberg747]

^^^Or you could do an armor move, and you are out of the corner. Or you could just duck. I dont really see your point.


P.S. No way in hell Baraka's footsies are worse than sub's. Baraka is a footsies character for god sake's lmao.

 

[salvificblood]

^^^Or you could do an armor move, and you are out of the corner. Or you could just duck. I dont really see your point.


P.S. No way in hell Baraka's footsies are worse than sub's. Baraka is a footsies character for god sake's lmao.

Because every character always has meter to spend don't they, and they can always just armour out, and armoured moves can't be baited and punished at all....

If you remain static behind the clone, Sub will mess you up.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Sub-Zero's corner traps are very good. 212, clone, or 21, clone, and the only thing you're doing is neutral jumping, which I will 22 you for. Not every character has this.

I also have a setup that nobody else uses off 212, clone. If you remain in crouch block behind the clone and tryto fuzzy the f4, iceball, I'll stand just at the very edge of my clone and charge the b2, if you jump, I will back dash cancel into 22. If you remain static, I will freeze you. Sub can get inside your head in the corner.

No doubt subs corner game is great...but every character has ways of making you shit your pants in the corner. Nw has corner game no one else has...so does raiden, so does kabal, etc etc...

Every character is viable...but not every character has the right person playing them.

 

[Zoidberg747]

How? I mean what can he do to you when you duck? Yeah he can chip away but once his clones gone he is screwed. And I am not going to get cornered by you and THEN EX blade charge. I am going to do it when you least expect it or during the middle of your clone animation.

The fact is all the characters with above average corner games(except Jax) need something else because then every decent player who knows that character is going to make sure you do not corner them(not wait to get cornered and then try to escape).

 

[salvificblood]

No doubt subs corner game is great...but every character has ways of making you shit your pants in the corner. Nw has corner game no one else has...so does raiden, so does kabal, etc etc...

Every character is viable...but not every character has the right person playing them.

Sure but most of it comes down to blockstring pressure for those characters. Sub's corner game has more layers of guessing to it. It's not quite as straight forward.

Alll characters having somewhat of a good corner game comes down to the general fact that being inthe corner is really bad. Johnny Cage, Sub and Jax are probably the 3 best corner characters.

 

[salvificblood]

How? I mean what can he do to you when you duck? Yeah he can chip away but once his clones gone he is screwed. And I am not going to get cornered by you and THEN EX blade charge. I am going to do it when you least expect it or during the middle of your clone animation.

The fact is all the characters with above average corner games(except Jax) need something else because then every decent player who knows that character is going to make sure you do not corner them(not wait to get cornered and then try to escape).

You're theory fighting. The basic premise is that Sub-Zero forces you into a terrible situation where you have to put your whole lifebar on the line to get out everysingle time he corners you.

 

[Zoidberg747]

My point still stands that as good as Sub's corner game is, that will have no effect when you are unable to get them in the corner. Because of most characters tools in this game, most characters have a hard time getting others into the corner(Exceptions would be Kabal, Raiden, and Jax for example). My point is you are assuming that someone will get themselves cornered, however in order to do that you need to use the clones. The thing about his clone is the second someone sees you do it they can Armor out and possibly get a combo.

 

[salvificblood]

My point still stands that as good as Sub's corner game is, that will have no effect when you are unable to get them in the corner. Because of most characters tools in this game, most characters have a hard time getting others into the corner(Exceptions would be Kabal, Raiden, and Jax for example). My point is you are assuming that someone will get themselves cornered, however in order to do that you need to use the clones. The thing about his clone is the second someone sees you do it they can Armor out and possibly get a combo.

The amount of armour in the game is one of the things that took sub-Zero down the tier list. However, you're being really one dimensional with this. It doesn't pan out this way because good Sub-Zero players don't just put the clone on the screen whenever, they use it as a part of a conditioning game and you do not always have the meter, lifelead, etc, to justify burning said meter on armouring through a clone. I wish people would stop theory fighting Sub-Zero into the ground. He is not that bad.

 

[THTB]

Sub has way better footsies than Baraka, in general, though.

Wrong.

Sub doesn't have a +frame sweep that ducks shit, a 7f anti-air, a 10f whiff punisher that doubles as a ranged anti-air and is safe from range vs a good number of the cast, and an advancing overhead that can be made safe without giving up much.

d4 and clone are good, but by no means does Sub have a better footsies game.

Sub's corner game is good, but like you said, it requires conditioning. A lot of it. To the point where that's what it entirely consists of. Other characters don't have to put nearly that kinda effort in corner pressure.

 

[salvificblood]

Wrong.

Sub doesn't have a +frame sweep that ducks shit, a 7f anti-air, a 10f whiff punisher that doubles as a ranged anti-air and is safe from range vs a good number of the cast, and an advancing overhead that can be made safe without giving up much.

d4 and clone are good, but by no means does Sub have a better footsies game.

Sub's corner game is good, but like you said, it requires conditioning. A lot of it. To the point where that's what it entirely consists of. Other characters don't have to put nearly that kinda effort in corner pressure.

Sub's anti-airs lead to full combo punishes. 9 frames with a fantastic hitbox for catching people at the height of their jump as theycross you over... come on, lol.

If Sub puts you in the corner, you aren't walking out if he doesn't let you... People underextimate it because very few Sub-Zero players work on a comprehensive corner game. I hadn't until recently. Sib's corner game is very good and it's not all conditioning. Any time you're in neutral guard, I can do what I want to you and you have towait for me to make a mistake so you can get out. Some characters have it easier than others, but they tend toescape everybody's corner pressure easier than others.

 

[THTB]

I'd take a more consistent AA, thank you.

And yes, it does take a lot of conditioning to that point, because if you don't condition, clone to keep you trapped is borderline pointless.

 

[Zoidberg747]

And Baraka can use his f4 as an anti air which leads into frame traps. I still dont really get your point.

No one in this game is not viable honesly. But some deserve to be bottom five, and Sub, Baraka, Jade, Sheeva are definitely some of those characters.

 

[salvificblood]

I'd take a more consistent AA, thank you.

And yes, it does take a lot of conditioning to that point, because if you don't condition, clone to keep you trapped is borderline pointless.

Maaaaan, just because you play Reptile and you can ex forceball.... lol.

 

[Briggs8417]

I don't like a LOT of reptiles mu's on this...and i didn't even look at all of them

sent from Gotham City via the batcomputer

 

[THTB]

Yeah, Reptile doesn't even go 4-6 vs that entire top 5. He's even on every match. Jax vs Reptile is slightly in Jax's favor, but not a 4-6. And Mileena isn't a 3-7, but people haven't caught onto that yet. And a number of his advantage matchups here are actually even or slight advantage.

 

[gdf]

Quiet THTB, the more people who drop Reptile and pick up Smoke as their ninja main, the easier it is for a Kung Lao player like me to place higher in tourneys. So stop stating his viability openly like that.

 

[Briggs8417]

Yeah, Reptile doesn't even go 4-6 vs that entire top 5. He's even on every match. Jax vs Reptile is slightly in Jax's favor, but not a 4-6. And Mileena isn't a 3-7, but people haven't caught onto that yet. And a number of his advantage matchups here are actually even or slight advantage.

Agreed, he doesn't have any mu's that are heavily in his favor and he doesn't really lose heavily to anyone either, except sonya. What about the jax mu puts it in his favor if I may ask?

sent from Gotham City via the batcomputer

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

Everything looks really good for Noob except the 5 vs. Freddy and 4.5 vs. Raiden look too high.