Has NRS silenced the Mortal Kombat 1 critics?

[Eddy Wang]

You fail to mention the full context and the inconvenient fact that Max complains about zoning in Mortal Kombat 1, a game that contains an ambush assist that provides five hits of anti-projectile armor.

If anyone perceives Mortal Kombat 1 to feel "unfun" and "wrong" because of the zoning, I could not care less about that individual's opinion about Mortal Kombat 1, much less fighting games in general. So, citing Max does not strengthen your or Mike Hollow's argument. In fact, citing Max devalues your argument.

You and I used to criticize the power levels of the game. NRS has buffed most characters and kameos. You and I used to criticize the lack of traditional archetypes. NRS has added characters like Cyrax, Ermax, and Sektor, all of whom play in a specific way, with or without kameos. You and I used to criticize the lack of execution and character depth, yet the most recent DLC characters are neither "scrubby" nor "brain dead". Almost all of them are well-designed characters.

In the toxic and negative environment called Twitter, where every game ever made sucks, I have lots of respect for Paolo and his crew for improving Mortal Kombat 1. Just like I had lots of respect for Capcom for improving Street Fighter 5. At one point, I had quit playing, but I am now satisfied and proud to have returned to play both games.

Mike Hollow is a knowledgeable fighting game player, but he no longer plays Mortal Kombat 1. His criticism is shallow, obsolete, and out of the touch with the people who still play this game. So is yours to a lesser extent. In spite of its inherent flaws, improvements on the kameo system can still be accomplished. Just like Capcom and Namco improved, or deteriorated, depending on your perspective, the drive and heat system, respectively. Mike has not had a nuanced conversation about Mortal Kombat 1's meta in a very long time, so regurgitating his talking points is futile.

true fact, every DLC since ermac has been a banger, there is no denying that

 

[Vulgar]

My favorite comment about you in that section:

"This other guy (Not Tom) is the typical gen-z kid who's like "well if it sold more, then it must be better". This the type of dude that would try to argue that Justin Bieber or Taylor Swift are greater musicians than Michael Jackson & The Beatles because, sales..."

That's a dogshit analogy.

No one on that list has outsold the Beatles, I'm pretty positive.

More importantly...

I fucks with T-Swift. Blank Space was a treasure, dude.

 

[Vulgar]

Oh I never played.lol.

I am a huge MK fan but once I saw they changed all the characters and their backstories and the kameo system I said no thanks.

I’m a casual through and through and this game just turned me off. Still hope it dies haha

Someone on TYM heavily criticizing a Mortal Kombat game that they don't actually fucking play???

No waaaaaaaaaaay.

I am shocked. Shocked.

 

[Vulgar]

So when MK1 initially released, my thoughts were as follows:

Gameplay was Hella fun.
Everything else fucking sucked.

The monetization sucked. Invasions sucked. Online sucked. Story was...it was pretty good until the ending.

I've always thought the core gameplay was fun as hell. The Kameo system - while flawed at release - offers more creativity and freedom than any NRS game before it. You get conversion situations that simply weren't possible/didn't exist in past games, sequence breaking, crazy set ups, so on and so on. It's probably the best system they've done in terms of rewarding player expression.

Now, anyway. String into Cyrax into string into Cyrax was pretty whack.

I watch a lot of content creators for MK1 and you constantly see weird ass Kameo picks and teams for this game. I think just about every Kameo has a home and I hope they continue to get buffed.

I think NRS has given players most of what they asked for. Give us rooms and the ability to be in practice mode while waiting for Ranked and they'll have completely succeeded.

 

[SaltShaker]

So when MK1 initially released, my thoughts were as follows:

Gameplay was Hella fun.
Everything else fucking sucked.

The monetization sucked. Invasions sucked. Online sucked. Story was...it was pretty good until the ending.

I've always thought the core gameplay was fun as hell. The Kameo system - while flawed at release - offers more creativity and freedom than any NRS game before it. You get conversion situations that simply weren't possible/didn't exist in past games, sequence breaking, crazy set ups, so on and so on. It's probably the best system they've done in terms of rewarding player expression.

Now, anyway. String into Cyrax into string into Cyrax was pretty whack.

I watch a lot of content creators for MK1 and you constantly see weird ass Kameo picks and teams for this game. I think just about every Kameo has a home and I hope they continue to get buffed.

I think NRS has given players most of what they asked for. Give us rooms and the ability to be in practice mode while waiting for Ranked and they'll have completely succeeded.

I was one step below. I hated it and felt I was forcing myself to play it just because it was "MK". I probably sounded like Tom lol because I really was unhappy at launch to say the least and saw no point to play it when other options were available.

Fast forward and pretty much 90% of my complaints are either fixed or turned into a benefit of playing. Dave listed out a bunch of "we used to complain about" points and I agree with all of them. About the kameo picks you mentioned. I've been in the lab hard the last couple of weeks trying to pin down who I'll run as my new main for the next couple of months. I am now down to three character/kameo pairs. Literally just last night, I looked up the pairs to see what tourney players are doing with them, and found barely to no matches at all on ALL THREE PAIRS. Like what?? So I'm sitting here like "wait why are all the players using these two kameos with this character but I feel this other kameo is so epic with them?". Last year that wasn't the case at all, most characters were defaulted to a couple kameos. If anything, once that mindset is broken I think we'll even more kameo variety like how variation variety spiked up in MKX late stage. The game has opened up in more ways than I could type from then to now.

So I would say at some point some dudes gotta acknowledge that a game just isn't for them. I play many FGs, but GGST is not for me. It's been two years, and I'll still never play it again. There's no need for me to go on about why GG XRD REV 2 was a superior game in every way imaginable (okay I won't lol), or post on GGST forums expressing why I don't like it or talk about the GG XRD players who hate it. The people playing it like it some old some new and it's a good game, just not for me, and that's all that really matters.

Also one other point I think is important that gets often overlooked. Each cycle these games change a LOT. At one point years ago games were focusing on high execution, at one point defense, etc and they typically go all around the same few years. In modern games it's all about lowering the barriers of entry, new "dazzling" mechanics that add to the pressure, and lowering defense and/or increasing offense. We are all from an era where we played FGs how they used to be made, so most of us will be resistant to these changes, but some 21 year old might not care. In Tekken I HATE Heat to the point where I think it defines the entire game and would be best being removed altogether or massively nerfed. HATE IT. I don't like Drive Rush in SF6, it lowers the skill ceiling too much breaks neutral sometimes by just mashing out DR half a screen away and is worse than MKX's Run button. I don't really like kameos, but in it's current version it is much more reasonable than Drive Rush and Heat and I have actually played the games extensively to say that. Fatal Fury is introducing the "Rev System", and I am confident I will hate that too. But this is how games are made now.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

This exactly! I always said it should have been also released on PS4 because it would triple their market. It was never going to sell as well as MK11 - look at the difference in console sales.

This is why it’s crazy that MK1 still outsells SF6, because SF6 was also released on a system that had over 100 million consoles already purchased.

Imo this may be one of the reasons why they went straight to MK instead of doing Injustice again; because if you’re releasing to a smaller console base, putting out a less popular game would be a much bigger risk.

 

[M2Dave]

I watch a lot of content creators for MK1 and you constantly see weird ass Kameo picks and teams for this game. I think just about every Kameo has a home and I hope they continue to get buffed.

I hope so too, but disliking the game because of the kameo system is perfectly reasonable.

Most players, casual and competitive players alike, seem to prefer traditional one-on-one fighting games unless legacy is involved (i.e., King of Fighters, Marvel versus Capcom, etc.)

For most of Mortal Kombat 1's lifespan, the kameo system was highly unbalanced, which left a bad impression on lots of players who initially tried the game.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Most players, casual and competitive players alike, seem to prefer traditional one-on-one fighting games unless legacy is involved (i.e., King of Fighters, Marvel versus Capcom, etc.)

Casuals perhaps, but I’m not sure sure that’s true of competitive players. DFBZ was one of the biggest games we’ve ever had, and that audience is basically also the reason Strive has a huge following now, not the fact that it’s GG legacy.

I think a lot of players in this scene specifically aren’t used to assist mechanics because they’re new to MK, but there are lots of other FGC players that are.

 

[TomShane]

I hope so too, but disliking the game because of the kameo system is perfectly reasonable.

Most players, casual and competitive players alike, seem to prefer traditional one-on-one fighting games unless legacy is involved (i.e., King of Fighters, Marvel versus Capcom, etc.)

For most of Mortal Kombat 1's lifespan, the kameo system was highly unbalanced, which left a bad impression on lots of players who initially tried the game.

I do wanna add something regarding the Kameo system. I'm afraid that your idea that you and others have that casuals don't like the Kameo system is a gigantic misconception on your part. The Kameo system is a combination of the Variation system from both MKX and MK11 combined with the assist Konsumable system from MK11 Towers of Time. and in MK11 you could've seen how many people play TOT's every week via the Race against Time leaderboard, and even 3-4 after MK11's release, there were still thousands, if not even tens of thousands of players, still play TOT's every week, meaning that they kept playing with these assists combined with the Kustom Variation loadouts every week.

MK11 Kustom Variation system was a gameplay-based customization system, but both MKX preset Variation system and MK1 Kameo system are gameplay-based customization systems as well. The difference is that in MK11 you could've custom individual moves for every character, while in both MKX and MK1 you can pick between chunks of moves for every character. And then the difference between MKX and MK1 is that in MKX, you could've pick one chunk move out of 3-4 depending on the character but they were all unique to that character, while MK1 allows you to pick 1 out of 20 chunks of moves that are universal for the whole roster.

It's really not that much of a difference at all.

On top of that, as someone who played MK11 Towers of Time on a regular basis, plus someone that loves the Marvel Vs. Capcom series (in fact, MVC is my 2nd all time favorite fighting game series only behind Mortal Kombat) I can tell you that using assists in both MK11 Towers of Time and with MK1 Kameos are WAY EASIER than assists in MVC games, more specifically in MVC2 and MVC3, and even in DBFZ (which I also played).

Casuals that play MK games sporadically and single player guys don't hate the Kameo system. All the "casuals" that hate the Kameos are basically online warriors and/or offline PVP players who are so used to play 1V1 and didn't play other modes besides playing against other people. Not to mention that just like Crimson Shadow said, DBFZ, which is full of assists, has been very successful commercially.

I will go even further, that the fact that MK1 is honest with the player by saying directly that the members aren't gonna be equal in their role, as you got main character and one Kameo, vs. games like MVC2 that try to make it look like you have a team of 3 equal characters but in practice you got one or sometimes even 2 characters that end up being just assists for the "true stars" of the team. Even with MPS teams in MVC2, Psylocke has always been the assist character for Magneto and Storm, which makes it more like an MVC1 team rather than an actual 3-character team. And also in DBFZ, how many teams in the first few months of the game included Super Vegeta just because of his assist? MK1 gives you that level of honesty just like MVC1 did (which is why I prefer MVC1 over MVC2 and 3) and therefore makes the Kameos much better than the vast majority of assist systems in fighting games.

Hope that this misconception has been addressed.

 

[SaltShaker]

Most players, casual and competitive players alike, seem to prefer traditional one-on-one fighting games unless legacy is involved (i.e., King of Fighters, Marvel versus Capcom, etc.)

For most of Mortal Kombat 1's lifespan, the kameo system was highly unbalanced, which left a bad impression on lots of players who initially tried the game.

Just speaking on behalf of being a life long KOF player, part of the reason why we love the setup of 3 vs 3 and have never complained about it in the community is because of how it is setup. It is virtually a team battle of 1 vs 1, where after a character dies you get a small portion of health back on the character that won before the next match of their character. The game is deep and you learn 3 mains instead of 1 and use those three individually against them. You also have to manage your meter much more carefully than any other FG and decide when to use it depending on round, character, life, who to run point, etc. If they added something where your other characters can jump in and do some moves or if you could tag them in/out I guarantee you the entire KOF community would revolt.

 

[M2Dave]

I think a lot of players in this scene specifically aren’t used to assist mechanics because they’re new to MK, but there are lots of other FGC players that are.

If they are, why are some of those FGC players not participating in Mortal Kombat 1 offline and/or online tournaments?

I have explained why Mortal Kombat 1 is objectively in a good state now, but there is no doubt that the game continues to underperform at offline events.

Hope that this misconception has been addressed.

I neither disagree with your variation/kameo system comparison nor your description of MvC2, but you have provided no evidence to address, much less disapprove, any misconceptions, particularly when you make a statement such as...

All the "casuals" that hate the Kameos are basically online warriors and/or offline PVP players who are so used to play 1V1 and didn't play other modes besides playing against other people.

Even if this statement were accurate, why would NRS design an assist fighting game when they know that most of their player base is not accustomed to assist fighting games?

As far as Dragon Ball is concerned, the franchise sells for being Dragon Ball.

I suspect that the overwhelming majority of players are anime fans who could care less about one-on-one versus assists as long as they get to play as their favorite Dragon Ball characters.

 

[Subby Z]

If they are, why are some of those FGC players not participating in Mortal Kombat 1 offline and/or online tournaments?

I have explained why Mortal Kombat 1 is objectively in a good state now, but there is no doubt that the game continues to underperform at offline events.



I neither disagree with your variation/kameo system comparison nor your description of MvC2, but you have provided no evidence to address, much less disapprove, any misconceptions, particularly when you make a statement such as...



Even if this statement were accurate, why would NRS design an assist fighting game when they know that most of their player base is not accustomed to assist fighting games?

As far as Dragon Ball is concerned, the franchise sells for being Dragon Ball.

I suspect that the overwhelming majority of players are anime fans who could care less about one-on-one versus assists as long as they get to play as their favorite Dragon Ball characters.

As a casual who mostly cares about the story and characters I will say you are 100% right.

Kameos just from an aesthetic point of view are ugly as hell and just look like shit imo. I want to play strictly 1 v 1 not have some assist character jump in.

I get mechanically they can give options to some players, but as a whole? Kameos are ugly and I hate them personally.

I think most people here are into the competitive scene so idk how many casual responses you will get.

 

[TomShane]

If they are, why are some of those FGC players not participating in Mortal Kombat 1 offline and/or online tournaments?

I have explained why Mortal Kombat 1 is objectively in a good state now, but there is no doubt that the game continues to underperform at offline events.



I neither disagree with your variation/kameo system comparison nor your description of MvC2, but you have provided no evidence to address, much less disapprove, any misconceptions, particularly when you make a statement such as...



Even if this statement were accurate, why would NRS design an assist fighting game when they know that most of their player base is not accustomed to assist fighting games?

As far as Dragon Ball is concerned, the franchise sells for being Dragon Ball.

I suspect that the overwhelming majority of players are anime fans who could care less about one-on-one versus assists as long as they get to play as their favorite Dragon Ball characters.

Well that's the point, as showing by the estimated data that you could've seen in the Race against Time leaderboards in MK11 TOT's, NRS have realized that a lot of players do like playing with assists. While it's obviously not gonna stay as a mechanic for the entire series going forward (maybe it will return in MK13 but in a more advanced fashion, just like MK11 Kustoms were an updated version of MKX Variations), if a huge chunk of the player base, and more importantly, the player base that stick with the game long after release, like to play the mode that allows and encourages you to use such a mechanic, obviously it makes sense to expand on it and make it part of the core gameplay for at least one game, if not even the main mechanic.

And just like a lot people bought DBFZ just because it's Dragon Ball, a lot of people who bought MK1 don't care what mechanics are in the game and bought it just because it's Mortal Kombat and just for the single player modes regardless of what mechanics are used in competitive play or how well they were balanced at launch.

And MK1 is still a 1V1, just a 1V1 with assists. That's the thing, you don't control 2 characters, you don't have two life bars, you don't have to learn combos for both characters. Yes you can have your assist being the star and pick your main character around the assist or having the main character being the star and pick the Kameo around that main character, but it's still 1V1, just like MVC1 is a 2V2 game that allows you to pick an additional character as an assist, or Pokken Tournament that allowed to pick one main Pokemon and then 2 assist Pokemon, therefore making it still a 1V1 game. These were not 3V3 games.

MK1 is a 1V1 game, and casuals don't mind the Kameos at all. The only ones that do are the ones that play PVP against other people beyond the release of the game and are not familiar with playing assists, and that is not the majority of the players.

 

[Eldriken]

could care less

Dave, Dave, Dave. You should be ashamed. I thought that you of all people on this site would know that this is incorrect.

Other than that, I agree with you.

 

[Eldriken]

Well that's the point, as showing by the estimated data that you could've seen in the Race against Time leaderboards in MK11 TOT's, NRS have realized that a lot of players do like playing with assists. While it's obviously not gonna stay as a mechanic for the entire series going forward (maybe it will return in MK13 but in a more advanced fashion, just like MK11 Kustoms were an updated version of MKX Variations), if a huge chunk of the player base, and more importantly, the player base that stick with the game long after release, like to play the mode that allows and encourages you to use such a mechanic, obviously it makes sense to expand on it and make it part of the core gameplay for at least one game, if not even the main mechanic.

And just like a lot people bought DBFZ just because it's Dragon Ball, a lot of people who bought MK1 don't care what mechanics are in the game and bought it just because it's Mortal Kombat and just for the single player modes regardless of what mechanics are used in competitive play or how well they were balanced at launch.

And MK1 is still a 1V1, just a 1V1 with assists. That's the thing, you don't control 2 characters, you don't have two life bars, you don't have to learn combos for both characters. Yes you can have your assist being the star and pick your main character around the assist or having the main character being the star and pick the Kameo around that main character, but it's still 1V1, just like MVC1 is a 2V2 game that allows you to pick an additional character as an assist, or Pokken Tournament that allowed to pick one main Pokemon and then 2 assist Pokemon, therefore making it still a 1V1 game. These were not 3V3 games.

MK1 is a 1V1 game, and casuals don't mind the Kameos at all. The only ones that do are the ones that play PVP against other people beyond the release of the game and are not familiar with playing assists, and that is not the majority of the players.

Who are you to speak on the behalf of countless others?

 

[Subby Z]

Well that's the point, as showing by the estimated data that you could've seen in the Race against Time leaderboards in MK11 TOT's, NRS have realized that a lot of players do like playing with assists. While it's obviously not gonna stay as a mechanic for the entire series going forward (maybe it will return in MK13 but in a more advanced fashion, just like MK11 Kustoms were an updated version of MKX Variations), if a huge chunk of the player base, and more importantly, the player base that stick with the game long after release, like to play the mode that allows and encourages you to use such a mechanic, obviously it makes sense to expand on it and make it part of the core gameplay for at least one game, if not even the main mechanic.

And just like a lot people bought DBFZ just because it's Dragon Ball, a lot of people who bought MK1 don't care what mechanics are in the game and bought it just because it's Mortal Kombat and just for the single player modes regardless of what mechanics are used in competitive play or how well they were balanced at launch.

And MK1 is still a 1V1, just a 1V1 with assists. That's the thing, you don't control 2 characters, you don't have two life bars, you don't have to learn combos for both characters. Yes you can have your assist being the star and pick your main character around the assist or having the main character being the star and pick the Kameo around that main character, but it's still 1V1, just like MVC1 is a 2V2 game that allows you to pick an additional character as an assist, or Pokken Tournament that allowed to pick one main Pokemon and then 2 assist Pokemon, therefore making it still a 1V1 game. These were not 3V3 games.

MK1 is a 1V1 game, and casuals don't mind the Kameos at all. The only ones that do are the ones that play PVP against other people beyond the release of the game and are not familiar with playing assists, and that is not the majority of the players.

Wait wait wait.

You are equating players grinding in towers of time with liking assists? GOD NO!

In fact that was my LEAST favorite part of towers of time. I played towers mostly to get gear and ,while in that game mode (towers) it can give a bit of variety, in the end very few want that across ALL game modes.

 

[Vulgar]

As a casual who mostly cares about the story and characters I will say you are 100% right.

Kameos just from an aesthetic point of view are ugly as hell and just look like shit imo. I want to play strictly 1 v 1 not have some assist character jump in.

I get mechanically they can give options to some players, but as a whole? Kameos are ugly and I hate them personally.

I think most people here are into the competitive scene so idk how many casual responses you will get.

I don't get this, "Kameos are ugly" talking point. Kano looks like Kano. Sonya looks like Sonya.

Let me ask you something: How much experimentation have you actually tried with the Kameo system? Have you ever done any combos involving them?

 

[Subby Z]

I don't get this, "Kameos are ugly" talking point. Kano looks like Kano. Sonya looks like Sonya.

Let me ask you something: How much experimentation have you actually tried with the Kameo system? Have you ever done any combos involving them?

I told you I haven’t played this game. The story direction and kameos turned me off.

I mean I used the assists in MK11 idk if that’s similar, but I’ll elaborate on ugly.

They clutter up the screen imo. It’s like an Adhd dream I’m sure, but for me I hate it. It’s like a clusterfuck that I hate looking at visually. Again if it’s for you then great, but for me? Nah I’ll pass.

 

[PrinceGoro]

If they are, why are some of those FGC players not participating in Mortal Kombat 1 offline and/or online tournaments?

I have explained why Mortal Kombat 1 is objectively in a good state now, but there is no doubt that the game continues to underperform at offline events.



I neither disagree with your variation/kameo system comparison nor your description of MvC2, but you have provided no evidence to address, much less disapprove, any misconceptions, particularly when you make a statement such as...



Even if this statement were accurate, why would NRS design an assist fighting game when they know that most of their player base is not accustomed to assist fighting games?

As far as Dragon Ball is concerned, the franchise sells for being Dragon Ball.

I suspect that the overwhelming majority of players are anime fans who could care less about one-on-one versus assists as long as they get to play as their favorite Dragon Ball characters.

The problem is not even players being accustomed to assists.

Its the way the assists are implemented and it is a core system issue.

The impression during announcment of mk 1 was the return to full characters, no variations or cutome move bs mix and matching and charcaters being split into pieces. The return to full movsets. With then the addition of kameos on top of that functioning as assists.

Reality is we didnt really get that.

On paper it seems we did but we didnt.

If you look at conan for example. Without using a kameo you can barely get a combo route going, you literally cant preforme a structured combo, unless you use the 2 bar cancle or land a 20+ frame f3 that is a launching string.

Characters arent complete on their own with the kameo then being slapped on for extra sauce, characters more often the not tend to barley be able to gel their moveset together properly and requier a specific kameo pick to actually come online. And this is the case not just for combos but also for utility set ups and general gameplans of characters and what they can do.

Thats the issue, and this is the case for the majority of the cast and was since the games launch. New moves and a better design of charcters did attemtp to melow this issue but its not enough, those are just band aid fixes and you cant fix core system issues with band aid fixes and especially not with the rate of patching mk1 is getting.

Look at other assist games, or tag games with assist functions, are their charcaters near unusable without an assist?

Are you barley able to do anything with magneto in mvc2 without assists?

Is doctor doom completly saucless without assists in umvc3??

Ill answer it for you, its no, you can do whatever the fuck you want with them and the assists are just the cherry on top used for set ups , mix ups extensions etc etc. Not a requierment to make the character work at all.

And back when the game laucnhed and for like a good 9 months of its life the kameos themselves were in a weird state as well, which definetly didnt help people like the system also.

If talking strictly gameplay wise, thats the games biggest issue and the reason the kameo system is nit enjoyable or well recieved by many people casual and competative alike.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

If they are, why are some of those FGC players not participating in Mortal Kombat 1 offline and/or online tournaments?

MK has always been controversial due to the reasons you know (2d game with a block button, gore, dial-a-combo, etc). But I think it's also because we've done a great job of scaring them away, and a lot of people probably think the game is a lost cause.

I think having at least some leaders who advocate for the tournament scene is important. At Frosty we did have people enter who play other games, and if we get back to encouraging people to play in tournaments, I'm sure more will follow.

 

[Vulgar]

I told you I haven’t played this game. The story direction and kameos turned me off.

I mean I used the assists in MK11 idk if that’s similar, but I’ll elaborate on ugly.

They clutter up the screen imo. It’s like an Adhd dream I’m sure, but for me I hate it. It’s like a clusterfuck that I hate looking at visually. Again if it’s for you then great, but for me? Nah I’ll pass.

But if you don't even know how it feels to do, how do you even know it's bad?

For all you know, you might actually like how using Kameos feel.

Like I thought running looked weird in MKX at times, but when I actually played it, it felt viscerally fun and fluid.

Idk man.

 

[Vulgar]

The problem is not even players being accustomed to assists.

Its the way the assists are implemented and it is a core system issue.

The impression during announcment of mk 1 was the return to full characters, no variations or cutome move bs mix and matching and charcaters being split into pieces. The return to full movsets. With then the addition of kameos on top of that functioning as assists.

Reality is we didnt really get that.

On paper it seems we did but we didnt.

If you look at conan for example. Without using a kameo you can barely get a combo route going, you literally cant preforme a structured combo, unless you use the 2 bar cancle or land a 20+ frame f3 that is a launching string.

Characters arent complete on their own with the kameo then being slapped on for extra sauce, characters more often the not tend to barley be able to gel their moveset together properly and requier a specific kameo pick to actually come online. And this is the case not just for combos but also for utility set ups and general gameplans of characters and what they can do.

Thats the issue, and this is the case for the majority of the cast and was since the games launch. New moves and a better design of charcters did attemtp to melow this issue but its not enough, those are just band aid fixes and you cant fix core system issues with band aid fixes and especially not with the rate of patching mk1 is getting.

Look at other assist games, or tag games with assist functions, are their charcaters near unusable without an assist?

Are you barley able to do anything with magneto in mvc2 without assists?

Is doctor doom completly saucless without assists in umvc3??

Ill answer it for you, its no, you can do whatever the fuck you want with them and the assists are just the cherry on top used for set ups , mix ups extensions etc etc. Not a requierment to make the character work at all.

And back when the game laucnhed and for like a good 9 months of its life the kameos themselves were in a weird state as well, which definetly didnt help people like the system also.

If talking strictly gameplay wise, thats the games biggest issue and the reason the kameo system is nit enjoyable or well recieved by many people casual and competative alike.

I like how the argument is, "Conan can't do x, unless you do the things he has that lets Conan do x."


The hugest of brains, really.

Also Ive never bought the whole, "character needs a Kameo to function" talk.

Can you name me a character that actually can't combo at all without a Kameo?

Sub Zero can do it.
Scorpion can do it.
Li Mei can do it.
Reiko can do it.
Peacemaker can do it.

Like...is there anyone in the cast the actually cannot do a combo without a Kameo assist?

I can't think of one.

 

[Subby Z]

But if you don't even know how it feels to do, how do you even know it's bad?

For all you know, you might actually like how using Kameos feel.

Like I thought running looked weird in MKX at times, but when I actually played it, it felt viscerally fun and fluid.

Idk man.

I mean like I said I’m just not a fan of the look of it. Also just walking into a fight knowing it’s 1 character seems so much more badass than having this smirking second character over in the corner. Again it’s just aesthetically displeasing.

Plus I love Kuai Liang Sub-Zero and while Kuai Liang and Sub-Zero may both be in the game neither of those options please me. I don’t like Bi-han. At least not as Sub-Zero. I also don’t have Jade and quite frankly the design choices of this game have been lackluster to me as well so I kinda hope Jade doesn’t come to this particular game.

Maybe in the next game once they hear A LOT of feedback.

 

[Jynks]

Maybe in the next game once they hear A LOT of feedback.

you mean the "game sold really well, as in one of the best selling game WB released that year in a time when most big publishers were getting owned and selling hardly any copies" ... or the "MK1 is leading the Ps5 charts for most online players years after the release, beating SF and Tekken", or the "DLC sold so well, that we used the money to rebuild the prologue and offer a 200k+ pot and will be releasing more DLC".

yeah.. pretty sure if they listen to all of that any normal company will just make MK2 the same as MK1. Luckily for you one of the things that makes MK so good is that they reinvent the game every time. So while I do not expect the "new era" to change at all, and stuff like Sektor gender change is permanent, the Kameo system will be gone in MK2 and some other system will be in the game, which is sure to make some people tear their hair out!

 

[zerosebaz]

I don't get this, "Kameos are ugly" talking point. Kano looks like Kano. Sonya looks like Sonya.

I know you werent talking to me, and Subby already explained his problem and it is different than mine, but I actually have a gripe with the way some Kameos look. Most of the ones with old designs really clash with the aesthetic of the game, like the ninjas or Sonya. I mean, the models are pretty and all, but they just really clash visually, which is not a problem for Goro, or Sareena. I really thought kameos would have multiple skins that solved that, but there are only 3 kameo skins now that the cyborgs got theirs, right?

It's a small thing, and probably a matter of taste anyway, but it definitely would be my number 1 complaint regarding kameos.

Look at other assist games, or tag games with assist functions, are their charcaters near unusable without an assist?

Are you barley able to do anything with magneto in mvc2 without assists?

Is doctor doom completly saucless without assists in umvc3??

You picked some weird games to make those statements. Both with over 50 characters, and both with less than 10 viable ones. I mean, yeah, umvc3 Doom can do whatever he wants even without assists, but without assists Hulk is definitely fucked. Spiderman is fucked. Ryu is fucked. I would say Ryu in Marvel 3 is probably more incomplete than any character in MK1.