Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage: Official Matchup Discussion

[A F0xy Grampa]

At the very best, Kung Lao vs. Johnny Cage is 60-40; at worst, 70-30.

Spin escapes the frame trap, fireballs aren't recommended, and Cage's only draws are his EX Shadow Kick and his fast uppercut to punish the teleport. Beyond that, I don't know what else to do.

Cage has the easiest time in the game punishing the teleport with B3 for a full combo, KL cant spin out of fireball frame traps because Cage is +5 and f3 is a 9 frame move, spin is a 6 frame move. Ex shadow kick is pretty pointless though, as well as that Cage is a low hitbox character so he can duck most of his strings.

The only way KL can spin out of Cages moves is when there is a 6 frame opening, its the same as respecting a 7 frame opening against Sonya. KL players should really be doing 21 to escape Cage rather than spin

 

[gdf]

The only way KL can spin out of Cages moves is when there is a 6 frame opening, its the same as respecting a 7 frame opening against Sonya. KL players should really be doing 21 to escape Cage rather than spin

Low jab into 21 or just 21?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Low jab into 21 or just 21?

Just 21

 

[Durango]

What about Kitana and Mileena? They can pretty much camp him all day. EX Shadow Kick barely helps.

And they jump around so much I can't frametrap. Durpity Durp us pretty much impossible to beat without Sub-Zero.

Add Cyber Sub to that list. He can punish anything Cage does and his frametrap is just as good.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

What about Kitana and Mileena? They can pretty much camp him all day. EX Shadow Kick barely helps.

And they jump around so much I can't frametrap. Durpity Durp us pretty much impossible to beat without Sub-Zero.

You can turtle them just as much as they can turtle you

 

[crosstalk]

What about Kitana and Mileena? They can pretty much camp him all day. EX Shadow Kick barely helps.

And they jump around so much I can't frametrap. Durpity Durp us pretty much impossible to beat without Sub-Zero.

Add Cyber Sub to that list. He can punish anything Cage does and his frametrap is just as good.

Kitana is definitely a matchup in her favor. You have to know how to approach her however. You can duck her fans, but crouch block once you get in that f21 range, or else you'll get blown up. At the right range, you can punish a f21 during the animation with a b3 (this requires correct spacing and anticipation however). Against a Kitana that can't do iaF consistently, Cage can actually trade projectiles pretty decently, as his fireball does more damage. I'm using the strategy now where if I have a significant life lead, I'll try to trade projectiles or wait it out and make Kitana come to me. It seems to work better than straight rushing her down. You can make Kitana respect the EX Shadow Kick too; EX FB is also good to use. At the max d1 range, you can only whiff punish or punish a blocked d1, both of which is hard. Up close F3 can stuff it. Besides her great zoning ability, the d1 makes this matchup even harder than it should be.

Against Mileena, you should be dash blocking your way in and ducking any sais she throws. Up close you'll want to crouch block if you're being pressured, as you can fuzzy guard the overhead (it should be easy to react to). Cage can punish all of Mileena's specials pretty hard with b3, or at least a d1 to nutpunch combo. Her d4 is a great tool, but definitely not as good as Kitana's d1. Mileena's d4 can be beaten by most of Cage's pokes, and can be stuffed by normals up close like f3. It's much easier to deal with Mileena than Kitana.

For Cyber Sub, he can't really keep Cage out as his bombs really aren't that great. You'll have to apply pressure a little differently against Cyber Sub because of his parry, adding more pokes in but not making it obvious when you're going to poke. His dive kicks can beat out pokes so you have to be weary of that. I believe blocked dive kicks can be punished by a f3 however, so it becomes a guessing game when pressuring Cyber Sub.

 

[Sand-man]

jc vs jax

73 jc wtf are you thinking. Jax is the best character in the game with no bad matchups [MAD]JAX HAS A BLOCK INFINITE!!!!![/MAD] jax can zone out cage well,because the frame his hand hits the ground in a ground pound he can start a lunge fist thingy mabober. so jc cannot get in on jax if he armoures through jax has a block infinite at close range beating cage close range this is only 64 jax, because of jax's slight dificilty in getting out of cages frame traps. If you disagree please comment after lets see how u think a character can have adv on a character with a block infintie, btw im sor mi spilen woz bud un dis rind

Wtf ! Jc vs jax is 6-4...jc ever can punish the best string of jax, f4( isnt important if next f4 are 1 df1 or du4) cage's b3 punish all variable of string with no problem At full combo( other pg have major risk for punish at full combo , and the best soluction remain the uppercut es: sektor, quan chi). Cage are best pg in close range ( is not news xD ) when jax entry in a close range have f413 for 15 dmg or 17, don't remember lol, when cage entry with b3 have combo and set-up with nut punch, when entry with f33 have nut punch confirm. jax can't stay out from jc range for mutch time...

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[crosstalk]

Wtf ! Jc vs jax is 6-4...jc ever can punish the best string of jax, f4( isnt important if next f4 are 1 df1 or du4) cage's b3 punish all variable of string with no problem At full combo( other pg have major risk for punish at full combo , and the best soluction remain the uppercut es: sektor, quan chi). Cage are best pg in close range ( is not news xD ) when jax entry in a close range have f413 for 15 dmg or 17, don't remember lol, when cage entry with b3 have combo and set-up with nut punch, when entry with f33 have nut punch confirm. jax can't stay out from jc range for mutch time...

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I'd probably agree. Jax definitely wins the full screen game with his great projectile and ground pound shenanigans. Mid-screen Cage is more of a threat due to the ex FB, and up close I think Cage wins with his better overall normals. Of course, you'll have to watch out for all that armor Jax has for his EX dash punch and overhead smash. Cage's ability to punish the f4 string is interesting, and obviously his low hitbox nullifies the random advantage glitch (except in the corner). However, both characters have a pretty devastating corner game, Jax moreso. If one gets the other to the corner, it's probably game over.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I'd probably agree. Jax definitely wins the full screen game with his great projectile and ground pound shenanigans. Mid-screen Cage is more of a threat due to the ex FB, and up close I think Cage wins with his better overall normals. Of course, you'll have to watch out for all that armor Jax has for his EX dash punch and overhead smash. Cage's ability to punish the f4 string is interesting, and obviously his low hitbox nullifies the random advantage glitch (except in the corner). However, both characters have a pretty devastating corner game, Jax moreso. If one gets the other to the corner, it's probably game over.

Cage is better in the corner IMO, Jax is only ever good in the corner if he actually hits you, Cage kills you for blocking.

The fullscreen game isnt 100% Jax's either, he still has to respect Cage jump kick to nutpunch option

 

[Sand-man]

Why jc vs kitana is 6-4? Kitana. Kitana zone cage and escape with db1 everytime, d1 block cage and punish d1with f3 or b3 or any other attack is really hard

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[Sand-man]

Why jc kitana is 6-4 ? Kitana can zone everytime And can escape with db1, d1 is really hard to punish( for all).

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[crosstalk]

Cage is better in the corner IMO, Jax is only ever good in the corner if he actually hits you, Cage kills you for blocking.

The fullscreen game isnt 100% Jax's either, he still has to respect Cage jump kick to nutpunch option

That's true. I feel like a good Jax could bait you to jump and either 1aa you or jump kick airthrow, but once you get around that it won't really matter.

 

[crosstalk]

Why jc kitana is 6-4 ? Kitana can zone everytime And can escape with db1, d1 is really hard to punish( for all).

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The chart in the first page is out of date. Most would say it's 4-6 in Kitana's favor.

 

[Dizzy]

I think kitana may be 6-4 and not 7-3, I however am reserving my opinion until I play other kitanas at FR. It is without a doubt a bad match up imo.

Sao87

When you get some free time please update the first page with opinions of what players have posted and delete the outdated MU chart

 

[crosstalk]

Dizzy Sao87
This is the chart updated so far:

Baraka- 6/4
Cyber Sub-Zero- 5/5
Cyrax- 5/5
Ermac- 5/5
Freddy- 5/5
Jade- 6/4
Jax- 6/4
Kabal- 4/6
Kano- 6/4
Kenshi- 4/6
Kitana- 4/6
Kung Lao- 5/5
Liu Kang- 5/5
Mileena- 6/4
Nightwolf- 5/5
Noob- 4/6
Quan- 6/4
Raiden- 5/5
Rain- 5/5
Reptile- 4/6
Scorpion- 5/5
Sektor- 5/5
Shang- 5/5
Sheeva- 6/4
Sindel- 5/5
Skarlet- 5/5
Smoke- 5/5
Sonya- 5/5
Stryker- 6/4
Sub-Zero- 4/6

 

[Dizzy]

Probably would be better just to post whatever players opinions are of the matchups if they disagree.

On that note I think scorp/jc is 5/5

 

[crosstalk]

Probably would be better just to post whatever players opinions are of the matchups if they disagree.

On that note I think scorp/jc is 5/5

True, I was thinking something like Death's new Mileena matchup chart or f0xy's original matchup chart would be good, with a raw number along with a description of the matchup. We haven't really talked about advantageous or even matchups yet so most of the numbers I just left from the first chart or updated from other character's forums.

Edit: Changed the Scorp matchup because I agree with you. I guess we can discuss the current numbers and go from there.

 

[Playpal]

Speaking of Death's MU chart, do you guys think the Mileena MU is in JC's favour? I personally think it's 5-5.

 

[crosstalk]

Speaking of Death's MU chart, do you guys think the Mileena MU is in JC's favour? I personally think it's 5-5.

I think he has a point with her lack of escape options, especially her lack of armor. It seems that once Cage does get in, it's probably over for Mileena. Her sais can't seem to zone Cage out well either.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I still stand by 6-4 Cage vs Mileena. She isnt going to hurt him from a distance.

 

[crosstalk]

Another thing I'm curious about is the Shang matchup. Detroit and WoundCowboy have it at 6-4 in Shang's favor. I've never fought a good Shang but I could see the argument they have.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

5-5 Shang, Shangs frametraps arent good enough to keep Cage locked down, but Cages destroy Shang, but Shang can trap him from fullscreen. Also I think Cage can interupt Shangs F434 with a B3, was thinking about that yesterday need to test it.

 

[crosstalk]

So any other matches we disagree with? How about the Nightwolf matchup? Do you guys think Cage may have an advantage? Fly believes it is even.

 

[mekane]

I'd like to hear any recent findings about the Noob matchup. I saw in the Noob forum F0xy says he can just spam upknee... and so this is my main concern.

So let's say he's just spamming upknee, and doing NOTHING else. I assume I want to be standing at just outside its max range.

Can I get a little closer if I duck and is this a good idea so I can more easily punish a whiffed upknee?

What have you found is the most effective way to punish the whiffed upknee, (midscreen or corner)? Dash in with starter (f3, or 1,1), or should I use shadow kick?

Edit:
Also - after a blocked upknee, if I think he is going for another - should I take a step back to try to whiff punish, or go for a shadow kick to try to "beat him to the punch"

 

[Asodimazze]

I'd like to hear any recent findings about the Noob matchup. I saw in the Noob forum F0xy says he can just spam upknee... and so this is my main concern.

So let's say he's just spamming upknee, and doing NOTHING else. I assume I want to be standing at just outside its max range.

Can I get a little closer if I duck and is this a good idea so I can more easily punish a whiffed upknee?

What have you found is the most effective way to punish the whiffed upknee, (midscreen or corner)? Dash in with starter (f3, or 1,1), or should I use shadow kick?

Edit:
Also - after a blocked upknee, if I think he is going for another - should I take a step back to try to whiff punish, or go for a shadow kick to try to "beat him to the punch"

Foxy is wrong, Noob can't spam Upknees and do nothing else.
Punish every whiffed Upknee with shadow kick, if Noob keeps spamming that move he will get cornered in 10 seconds. I don't think is a good idea to dash in with a starter, it isn't reliable and won't work most of the time.
You can get a little closer to him if you crouch, but I don't recommend it.
It is possible to sweep Noob out of his Upknee if you space him properly and time your b4 right, but it's risky.

After a blocked Upknee, if you are 100% sure Noob will use that move again you have 2 choices:

- dash back out of his range, and punish him with Shadow Kick
- little step forward, EX nutpunch

Another interesting idea could be using EX forceball to "punish" a whiffed Upknee. The first forceball maybe won't probably hit because Noob's hitbox lowers when he uses Upknee, but the second will if Noob doesn't block, and even if he does block you should be able to start your pressure on your opponent, which is always great but expecially useful in this matchup.