Match-up Discussion Johnny Cage: Official Matchup Discussion

[cR WoundCowboy]

I firmly believe you need an ice clone, 8 frame d4 and an armoured corner reversal to deal with cage.

I think Cage does perfectly well against Shang, too, by the way. It's the same reason I think Cage can be OK against Noob Saibot, too. Once he gets in, you may as well put the controller down at times. You need a contingency plan against Cage's bs. What is Shang going to do once Cage gets going?

Hm... poke? Shang has the same answers to Cage's pressure as most of the cast. I don't know why Cage players act like Shang can't do anything once he gets in.

 

[ViciousShogun]

hey idk if you guys have gone over this b4, but i need some help in the kabal mu. i am able to get by the zoning fairly well, but my main problem comes when i am at about jumping range, i cant seem to be able to contain him. he gets out of the corner by using his dash cancels and forcing me to block, and then doing a cross over jumpkick, and then he gets to instant air across the screen again. any advice?

First rule of Johnny Cage. "Don't be scared, homie."

Thats all you need to know.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

First rule of Johnny Cage. "Don't be scared, homie."

Thats all you need to know.

Hahaha so true. Thats wat i have been trying lately, just being aggressive and getting in there, and baiting out that dash, and make him do the whole thing.. I am also gonna try throwing out the exforceball to force him to block. ill get to play my friend who mains kabal tonight. But thanks for bringing that up, as an exsubzero player sometimes i need to be reminded lol

 

[ViciousShogun]

Hahaha so true. Thats wat i have been trying lately, just being aggressive and getting in there, and baiting out that dash, and make him do the whole thing.. I am also gonna try throwing out the exforceball to force him to block. ill get to play my friend who mains kabal tonight. But thanks for bringing that up, as an exsubzero player sometimes i need to be reminded lol

I feel you. I am not naturally an offensive player, so it took a while to get the ball rolling with me and cage, watching the way maxter played really helped, I am tons better just from that. Cage requires great downloading and reading of your opponents defensive habits to be truly effective imo, and again, not being scared of what your opponent can do. That being said I always like to sit on a breaker if at all possible, or at least close to one, cage is a bully character, bullies never expect someone to fight back. lol.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I feel you. I am not naturally an offensive player, so it took a while to get the ball rolling with me and cage, watching the way maxter played really helped, I am tons better just from that. Cage requires great downloading and reading of your opponents defensive habits to be truly effective imo, and again, not being scared of what your opponent can do. That being said I always like to sit on a breaker if at all possible, or at least close to one, cage is a bully character, bullies never expect someone to fight back. lol.

The way i see cage is if he beats you and reads correctly, he will practically babality you. But if he loses he loses bad. its very bipolar... and i love it. But I do almost the exact opposite sometimes, I will go all out and say screw the breaker, and ex forceball trap to oblivion. That is the one thing I like about cage, although his general strategies are fairly one dimensional, the uniqueness of a cage player is how he uses his meter.

 

[ViciousShogun]

The way i see cage is if he beats you and reads correctly, he will practically babality you. But if he loses he loses bad. its very bipolar... and i love it. But I do almost the exact opposite sometimes, I will go all out and say screw the breaker, and ex forceball trap to oblivion. That is the one thing I like about cage, although his general strategies are fairly one dimensional, the uniqueness of a cage player is how he uses his meter.

It depends on the person I am fighting, sometimes I save for breaker, sometimes I do EN forceball traps. Alot of times both and just go with the flow. His pressure is good without the traps, but its just another great pressure tool he has.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

It depends on the person I am fighting, sometimes I save for breaker, sometimes I do EN forceball traps. Alot of times both and just go with the flow. His pressure is good without the traps, but its just another great pressure tool he has.

Of course, its very mu based. Like kabal, im not gonna win a slow paced, safe game. But I do have a chance if i make it an all out shitfest lol. They key is just knowing when to use the bar and when to save it. Jc has a lot of meter options, exforceball, ex nutpunch, xray. Thats the fun part for me, creating a balanced use of all his tools. It also doesnt hurt that he builds meter extremely fast.

 

[Playpal]

Kitana and sub-zero are two bad match ups that I'm reconsidering.

Kitana's iaf are of no harm to JC. All they do is limit his mobility and slow down the pace of the game, which is problematic if kitana has the life lead. Regardless of that, JC can close pressure fairly well with dash d1. The biggest issue in this match up are kitana's far-reaching strings, normals and d1. This is a very footsie based match up, JC is going to have to play the best footsies of his life (which is why I love this match up). It is important to get very familiar with the space Kitana can cover in this match up; spacing is very important. If kitana is doing iaf and is approaching the corner, you'll even have to do full screen footsies. All that time spent closing in on kitana and seeing it get squandered because of a square wave is a horrible feeling. Once you get in you're gonna get that damage and build that meter without having to worry about some pesky armor move. Just be careful if she has xray, you can duck that up close but at fullscreen it's a mid which can fuck up your dash d1s. Maybe 5.5-4.5 in Kitana's favour.

Now I also play SZ. As a SZ player, I consider Sonya a bad MU. This is because using 224 ice clone if she's crouch blocking can get you punished. 212 is useless against anyone with armor and 214 is generally an inferior pressure string. Standing 2 also whiffs on crouch block. All these things also apply to JC. Granted, JC doesn't have ex cartwheel, a long reaching d4 or a dive kick that blows up ice ball; he still has his second-to-none rush down, b3 and ex nut punch. Be patient, and SZ is eventually going to take risks. He still has that fucking ex slide which can put you in the corner though. At the moment, 5.5-4.5 in SZ's favour.

I'm using .5's because we're allowed to in the MU chart, if we ever get around to doing that.

Sonya's another one I'm reconsidering. Initially, I had a tough time against her because I thought her footsies were godlike and her ex cartwheel annoying as hell. Now I think her D4 shenanigans aren't so bad; it's the only way she can get her offense on JC anyways. Ex cartwheel is still a bitch, so 5.5-4.5 sonya's favour.

Of course, it's very much possible I'll change my mind on these MUs within a week and consider them all 4-6.

 

[crosstalk]

After MLG, Cage-everyone is 6-4.

 

[NariTuba]

All that time spent closing in on kitana and seeing it get squandered because of a square wave is a horrible feeling.

aint that the GODDAMNED truth...

F0xy was doing pretty well against Death's Sonya in their video series.

where is that series?

 

[crosstalk]

where is that series?

 

[Metzos]

Ok the Ermac vs JC MU is 5.5-4.5 in Ermac's favor according to the discussions me Dizzy and Mikemetroid had.

 

[NogunYesknife]

Ok the Ermac vs JC MU is 5.5-4.5 in Ermac's favor according to the discussions me Dizzy and Mikemetroid did.

what are your main justifications for that? What tools does Ermac utilize?

 

[Death]

Lets get real here. In that Cage MU chart Cage was losing 10-11 MUs. He really only has 2 bad MUs in Kabal and Kenshi. Lets be honest here. Cage doesnt have 10 bad mus. Hes not a mid tier character....

 

[Death]

That was actually the first time I ever fought him. I should post some updated ones between us. I do a lot better now the more I play him. Possibly hes levelling me up

 

[NogunYesknife]

Lets get real here. In that Cage MU chart Cage was losing 10-11 MUs. He really only has 2 bad MUs in Kabal and Kenshi. Lets be honest here. Cage doesnt have 10 bad mus. Hes not a mid tier character....

Sub and reptile are bad MUs

These are cages bad MUs IMO

Sub: 5.5-4.5
Reptile: 6-4
Kenshi: 6-4
Kabal: 6-4
Freddy: 6-4

 

[Metzos]

what are your main justifications for that? What tools does Ermac utilize?

Fullscreen: Ermac wins
Max range TKP (midscreen to fullscreen) Ermac wins
Up close: Pretty much even. Ermac's d3 when done in max range makes JC's f3 whiff, cause d3 lowers Ermac's hitbox low enough for f3 to whiff and JC will still get hit by d3.

Ermac's throw resets the fight in Ermac's favor sending JC fullscreen where he must fight his way in again.
If the JC player is pressuring Ermac with f3, Ermac can down poke him after he blocks the f3 with d1 (6f) or d3 (7f). If Ermac plays patiently he can bait JC's down pokes after a blocked f3 and punish accordingly. Even if JC finishes his f3 string Ermac gets pushed back and if JC tries to dash and pressure again with f3 he will be IAB'd to the face giving Ermac the advantage he needs to either back dash and continue spacing him out or either dash in and throw him (throw wins against ex nut punch if i remember correctly).

Punishing TKP at midscreen distance is risky cause of the slight knockback TKP causes on block and if Ermac blocks it JC will be punished by a 41% dmg combo and he will be send fullscreen again.

In sweep range Ermac's U4 is also a very good tool. Safe on block, creates pushback and leaves the opponent in an ideal position for d3 and d4 checking. Also if the opponent tries to jump in after he blocks the U4, Ermac has a guaranteed AA uppercut (44% dmg) or any other AA (AA standing 1 37% dmg, AA standing 2 39% dmg, both combos also send JC full screen). Jk to airblast is safe on block, it creates the spacing Ermac needs to keep JC out and will win almost all the time against AA attacks, especially d1.

 

[Death]

Sub beating Cage is a myth. At the highest level Clone will not stop Cage. Reptile isnt bad. THTB will tell you that MU is even. Freddy is not as hard to fight with cage. Cage can at least keep Freddy in while Sonya cannot. But yeah I can see freddy winning. But if i told you the cage MU chart thats being discussed right now, youd have a heart attack.

 

[Death]

Fullscreen: Ermac wins
Max range TKP (midscreen to fullscreen) Ermac wins
Up close: Pretty much even.

 

[Metzos]

We ll just agree to disagree then man.

P.S: I loved that movie btw. Thnx for bringing it up.

 

[NogunYesknife]

Sub beating Cage is a myth. At the highest level Clone will not stop Cage. Reptile isnt bad. THTB will tell you that MU is even. Freddy is not as hard to fight with cage. Cage can at least keep Freddy in while Sonya cannot. But yeah I can see freddy winning. But if i told you the cage MU chart thats being discussed right now, youd have a heart attack.

why would I have a heart attack? is he god tier or something?

 

[Death]

why would I have a heart attack? is he god tier or something?

More like shit tier.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Sub beating Cage is a myth. At the highest level Clone will not stop Cage. Reptile isnt bad. THTB will tell you that MU is even. Freddy is not as hard to fight with cage. Cage can at least keep Freddy in while Sonya cannot. But yeah I can see freddy winning. But if i told you the cage MU chart thats being discussed right now, youd have a heart attack.

I'm working on the chart again, and I seriously think you're overestimating human reactions rather the character himself.

 

[NogunYesknife]

More like shit tier.

NVM

 

[NogunYesknife]

I still think its reptiles favor, but sub could be even or 5.5