Reptile General Discussion

[ImpostorOak]

The way I see, there are 5 tiers right now:

Top 4
A+
A
B
Sub zero tier.

It is my honest opinion that Reptile sits solidly at the top of the B tier, when I'd want him to be at A+ at the minimum lol.

Of course, everything I say is just my personal take and obviously not an universal truth. I must say, however, that I've been playing competitively since MK9 whenever possible against top Brazilian players (and scoring some wins here and there at offline locals), so the way I see, there's seldom any characters from outside the top 2 tiers that make any top 8 placement in any major tournament.

I have not yet tested Stryker, though. Mostly trying out Scorpion, who gives a welcome damage bonus do Reptile's combos and helps with invisibility setups, and also helps with sneaking an overhead into distracted players.

Is stryker that much better? All I see is people using the grenades to keep things safe - they don't combo if you are juggling an opponent, unlike scorpion's fireballs, and his overhead/low leads to nothing on hit.

They absolutely do combo. Stryker in my experience has ALL useful moves, Scorpion has a combo extender and two moves that don't add a lot.

I enjoyed hearing your credentials, I have similar experience. I'd really suggest you try to play the character with other kameos and try to play with a different idea than mix. Staggers and spacing work best. Stryker helps with that most.

 

[ImpostorOak]

So, there are a couple ways you can look at it. On one hand, you can say "Reptile is totally devoid of strengths, he's terrible, you can't win with him, etc." That's not what I'm saying. There are plenty of ways you can win with Reptile. I'm above .500 in KL using only Reptile, and that includes the first few sets where I literally didn't even remember his buttons.

But what I keep coming back to is digging the depths to find things that let him compete with other characters, let alone things that he is uniquely great at. For example, I feel like B4 is an insanely good normal, and his D2 is nuts. His B31 is great too. So you make people hesitant to block high and jump in, which is good on paper, but there is no real obvious way to get people to stop blocking low. Sure, there are ways, but they're either unsafe, reactable, cost kameo/meter, or some combination of those things. God forbid I spend all my meter and kameo breaking an hour long Johnny combo, now my character is hobbled.

I hear what you're saying about the fact that the thinking should be that you need to use kameos to cover up a character's weaknesses, and I agree with that sentiment. I love the idea that you need to either use a kameo to compensate for weakness, or you can be aggressive, double down on your strengths, and outplay your opponent. But there are characters that don't need to do that, they can just double down on strengths and press buttons.

I think it just needs to be easier to hit his invisibility, have it last longer, make it have a quicker startup, survive blocks, or some combo of those things. IMO, it's not that Reptile needs all of his frames updated everywhere, it's just that he needs something to make opponents second guess what they're doing or you're doing, which is ostensibly what the whole invisibility gimmick is about. But since it takes forever to start, doesn't last long, goes away on block, it's basically this immense cost and setup to make them guess maybe once.

I'm not cynical, I'm going to keep playing Reptile on and off, and I do think people will find things, patches will happen, etc., I'm just also eager to spend some time with a character where I don't have to try so damn hard to get rolling.

I keep people hearing invis is hard to set up. Instead of ending in fang drop for 1% more damage, end in f32xxInvis, and cover their wakeup options with a kameo attack, then you have a long range low and overhead to mix with, throw, stagger pressure, all while invis.

I'll post a thread about how I play Reptile or something. It isn't drastically different than Honeybee or Chris G, but there's not much info on this sight anyway.

B2 is safe with Stryker or Cyrax.

B31 has no gap with them, either.

Both help invisibility setup. Idk. I think you're overthinking or something. I legit feel the obvious top tiers are the only characters that stand out as plain better than Reptile.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Imma try Stryker then. Also, please do post videos. More footage for Reptile is always welcome

 

[chud_munson]

I'll post a thread about how I play Reptile or something. It isn't drastically different than Honeybee or Chris G, but there's not much info on this sight anyway.

I'd love this if you have the time.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

I'll have to spend more time with Stryker. Trust me, I'm not trying to win an argument here, I desperately want to be wrong about Reptile lol

I'm just trying to help, I have no interest in arguing or winning arguments.
Definitely put in the time with Stryker, he ticks nearly every box with reptile, so many traps and mind games you can force your opponent into. I watched a stream of Honeybee's saying after using Stryker for a day he felt he has been using all the wrong Kameos with Reptile, that he feels much stronger.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

I definitely agree Reptile is pretty middle of the tier list. But I think his MUs against the top tiers are really good. Johnny and Baraka both really want to play that that rushdown pressure, but just getting in on reptile is really hard for them with b4 just shutting down any grounded approach, good counter zoning with death roll and fang fall. Get them to stop moving with b4 and some dash attacks, stagger the whole b3 string, and throw pressure is needed given is OH mix is harder to enforce. EX slow forceball for when you want to close in with some protection

I might play around with stryker but I chose Sonya day 1 and really like her. Square wave gets you a nice easy combo extension and shuts off the whole screen with a force ball, her projectile is full screen which really helps against those people running away, you could prolly setup a fully charged shot but I haven't messed with it too much. And she has an invincible reversal, that I also don't really use haha.

I'm not going for pro level play, so just my kasual observations.

 

[WarriorOfSunlight]

I've used Stryker on many characters, and he helps them all the same. He very easy to use and understand but he just isn't as dirty as other Kameos, in my opinion. Strykers best contribution are his grenades to make you safe and sometimes plus. He has that Low + overhead mix up but they don't lead into anything other than small damage on hit. The re-stand leaves you plus and overhead leave you plus on block, but Reptile doesn't have the frame data to take full advantage of that, as you all know.

You can't really get invisibility up as consistently with Stryker. Getting Reptile's invisibility up is one of his main tools, so any Kameo that makes that guaranteed is preferable, from my experience. Once invisibility is up, that is when you can go crazy with mix ups and combo right back into it with the right Kameo.

All that being said, I currently prefer Sub Zero Kameo with Reptile. That ice armor comes in clutch with all the Kung Lao Low Hat Kameo spammers, and you also get easy invisibility set ups with freeze combos. Cyrax is also a great Kameo for Reptile. Cyrax's spin helps keep Reptile safe or plus to open up different strings. Also, Cyrax's spin can combo with invisibility. Those are the 2 I use for Reptile in Kombat League.

 

[Skybox]

Not sure if this is known or not but you can stack invis and ice armor if you time them to hit at the same time. Call assist slightly before going invis.

You can? I thought it cancelled out one another

 

[Blakfellow]

I mean reptile is objectively bad in the game. The people that don’t want to see that are just delusional..

With that being said, he is fun to play and I am and have been fully maining him. I still don’t think he has a “best” kameo which is frustrating but fun at the same time.
To all the people uppplayinghim, if he’s so upper mid tier, where are all the top players that should be playing him. Why is his representation so low. Why does the only good player that mains him says he definitely needs help. What is your obsession with saying he is good enough and having him stay low tier once the buff train passes us by..
Absolutely all evidence points to him being lower tier but you have to be “edgy” and say he’s upper mid when yo yourself don’t even play the character at a high level?

I don’t get it

 

[ImpostorOak]

I mean reptile is objectively bad in the game. The people that don’t want to see that are just delusional..

With that being said, he is fun to play and I am and have been fully maining him. I still don’t think he has a “best” kameo which is frustrating but fun at the same time.
To all the people uppplayinghim, if he’s so upper mid tier, where are all the top players that should be playing him. Why is his representation so low. Why does the only good player that mains him says he definitely needs help. What is your obsession with saying he is good enough and having him stay low tier once the buff train passes us by..
Absolutely all evidence points to him being lower tier but you have to be “edgy” and say he’s upper mid when yo yourself don’t even play the character at a high level?

I don’t get it

First, lmfao at the personal jabs. It's a game, please take it down a notch there, my guy.

Second, Honeybee asked for very minor buffs and says he doesn't really need them. Chris G has been doing well in showings I've seen.

The game is one month old and most top players aren't picking from the Mid tier, not even the top mid tiers.

 

[Blakfellow]

First, lmfao at the personal jabs. It's a game, please take it down a notch there, my guy.

Second, Honeybee asked for very minor buffs and says he doesn't really need them. Chris G has been doing well in showings I've seen.

The game is one month old and most top players aren't picking from the Mid tier, not even the top mid tiers.

He Most definitely did not say he doesn’t need them. I can show you a time stamped video if you’d like. And they were not minor, he asked for armor on mb invisibility plus probably another 5-6 changes.

don’t take it personal my guy. I’m not referring to you personally but everyone that generally upplays him with very little base it off.
Chris g has been cooked by the top players btw.
I just don’t get why it’s such a taboo to call your character low tier. Some characters in the game are low tier and that’s alright..

No one is saying you can’t win with reptile but please I beg you to name 7 characters that are worse than reptile. Actual question

 

[ImpostorOak]

He Most definitely did not say he doesn’t need them. I can show you a time stamped video if you’d like. And they were not minor, he asked for armor on mb invisibility plus probably another 5-6 changes.

don’t take it personal my guy. I’m not referring to you personally but everyone that generally upplays him with very little base it off.
Chris g has been cooked by the top players btw.
I just don’t get why it’s such a taboo to call your character low tier. Some characters in the game are low tier and that’s alright..

No one is saying you can’t win with reptile but please I beg you to name 7 characters that are worse than reptile. Actual question

Liu
Nitara
Sub
Smoke
Shao
Smoke
Mileena

 

[Blakfellow]

Liu
Nitara
Sub
Smoke
Shao
Smoke
Mileena

Bro you’re going to sit there with a straight face and tell me liu and mileena are worse… cmon man

you going to tell me that 24% throw loop liu is worse??

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

He Most definitely did not say he doesn’t need them. I can show you a time stamped video if you’d like. And they were not minor, he asked for armor on mb invisibility plus probably another 5-6 changes.


No one is saying you can’t win with reptile but please I beg you to name 7 characters that are worse than reptile. Actual question

Honeybee prefaced those minor changes not as buffs but bug fixes and adjustments to otherwise underwhelming moves like EX invisibility not doing anything different than meterless. S3 pulling them in on block and things of that nature. He said he didn't need buffs it's that he isn't as fun to play compared to the numerous top tiers with loads of dirt.
This opinion was peppered across 3 1 hour streams.

Some have said reptile can't win and is at a huge disadvantage and is in need of buffs. Or where so frustrated they wanted other characters to be nerfed that honestly don't dominate the matchup as far as I can tell.
I have said Reptile is definitely not a bad character and has everything you need to play the game when you combine Kameos for safety, pressure, mixup and high damage.

Also remember that when Honeybee complained about his Dvorah and called her Bottom Tier in previous games and Sonic picked her up and showed how she was Top Tier. Or how Cetrion was considered the worst and Dragon put her in top 5 in everyone's tier list.

But from what I can tell, Reptile has a fast mid, great range that combos with Kameo, great mix while invisible, staggers, decent Armor and easily a top 5 wiff punisher. I don't see how Reptile is below mid tier and so far that's where I've seen most top players put him in their tier lists
But I'm willing to be proven wrong, the game is young and we haven't had a major yet.
I look forward to seeing what top players can do with Reptile and who knows what Kameos combinations they find.

 

[Blakfellow]

Honeybee prefaced those minor changes not as buffs but bug fixes and adjustments to otherwise underwhelming moves like EX invisibility not doing anything different than meterless. S3 pulling them in on block and things of that nature. He said he didn't need buffs it's that he isn't as fun to play compared to the numerous top tiers with loads of dirt.
This opinion was peppered across 3 1 hour streams.

Some have said reptile can't win and is at a huge disadvantage and is in need of buffs. Or where so frustrated they wanted other characters to be nerfed that honestly don't dominate the matchup as far as I can tell.
I have said Reptile is definitely not a bad character and has everything you need to play the game when you combine Kameos for safety, pressure, mixup and high damage.

Also remember that when Honeybee complained about his Dvorah and called her Bottom Tier in previous games and Sonic picked her up and showed how she was Top Tier. Or how Cetrion was considered the worst and Dragon put her in top 5 in everyone's tier list.

But from what I can tell, Reptile has a fast mid, great range that combos with Kameo, great mix while invisible, staggers, decent Armor and easily a top 5 wiff punisher. I don't see how Reptile is below mid tier and so far that's where I've seen most top players put him in their tier lists
But I'm willing to be proven wrong, the game is young and we haven't had a major yet.
I look forward to seeing what top players can do with Reptile and who knows what Kameos combinations they find.

Bro cetrion was nnnnnneeeeeeevvvver considered low tier…

and Devorah was objectively low tier in mk11…

here’s the thing. You can “have everything you need to play the game” and still be low tier which reptile is..

I’ve never said you can’t win with him. I’m not a pro but I’ll get top 16 in all the online tourney I play and am in god rank exclusively with reptile so I know you can win with him but it’s undeniable you have to work harder with him when compared to other characters.

btw Chris g just said on his stream that he is bottom 5.


so let’s summarize. You have the only two pro players that use him say he’s low tier. You have 90% of top pro players say he’s lower tier. You have 0 character representation in top 8s for the daily online tourneys that are played besides very few showings from honeybee and Chris g. And keep in mind honeybee joins tournaments every single day.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Bro cetrion was nnnnnneeeeeeevvvver considered low tier…

and Devorah was objectively low tier in mk11…

here’s the thing. You can “have everything you need to play the game” and still be low tier which reptile is..

I’ve never said you can’t win with him. I’m not a pro but I’ll get top 16 in all the online tourney I play and am in god rank exclusively with reptile so I know you can win with him but it’s undeniable you have to work harder with him when compared to other characters.

btw Chris g just said on his stream that he is bottom 5.


so let’s summarize. You have the only two pro players that use him say he’s low tier. You have 90% of top pro players say he’s lower tier. You have 0 character representation in top 8s for the daily online tourneys that are played besides very few showings from honeybee and Chris g. And keep in mind honeybee joins tournaments every single day.

Yeah but you know the majority of tourney players use A+/S Tier Characters. It's extremely rare to see mid tier and lower. The game is still in it's infancy. Give it time. I've seen a few Reptile Top 8's recently as well. If I remember correctly Honeybee made top 8 twice with Reptile and the UK tourney scene has numerous Reptile mains that have placed top 16's.
And in my opinion a character placing top 8 in the first couple months of a game is not the standard to determine whether a character is mid tier or not.

That's more of an argument I've heard for S Tier in previous MK titles.

It's okay that you have a different opinion on reptile than me. All I can say is we will see. Maybe I'm wrong but based on his tools alone, his buttons, his range, his invisibility, Motaro setups and combos, Stryker covering his holes his B4/S3 his great range on B3, his fast Mid F2. I'm seeing a solid character. Obviously he doesn't do 50% a touch and that's why I don't think he is A+ or S, hell even Raiden doesn't have that kind of mid (16f low, 18f mid)

I'll just put this to rest and wait for a couple months. I wanna see what happens.
On another note, I seen a very good Reptile on MFSlayers Top 8. Check it out, very cool matchups on there, worth watching to see potential tech.

I've also felt the same about Rain, several tier lists showed him bottom 3-5 and I feel Rain is Middle at least. He does struggle in the button department with his 211 first two hits having stubby range, only thing he has at neutral is D3 (-13 on block) and B4 (-7 and knocks down) which is not what you want.
But Rain is an awesome character and has some cool WB cancel combos/pressure using Stryker grenades.

 

[BarakaTile]

Hold up. We're not ACTUALLY pretending MK11 D'vorah is top tier?
It's really come to that? The character that HAD to equip Strepsitera to put up any semblance of a fight at all?

Yeah nah forget what the rest of you say, Buff Reptile. Being solid is not enough, He must be more.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Hold up. We're not ACTUALLY pretending MK11 D'vorah is top tier?
It's really come to that? The character that HAD to equip Strepsitera to put up any semblance of a fight at all?

Yeah nah forget what the rest of you say, Buff Reptile. Being solid is not enough, He must be more.

I thought he was refering to mkx d'vorah but I may be a dumbass lol

 

[hkriderz]

Reptile/Jax got some sauce. Haven't seen anyone talking about those two. Juicy ground pound setups, guaranteed invis setups midscreen and corner, and +100 health is always nice. I've been having fun with that team.

Reptile is fucking mid af though. NRS please buff

 

[ImpostorOak]

Anyone been able to do the jump cancel cancel tech off 23?

 

[Dolphin-Dive]

Reptile/Jax got some sauce. Haven't seen anyone talking about those two. Juicy ground pound setups, guaranteed invis setups midscreen and corner, and +100 health is always nice. I've been having fun with that team.

Reptile is fucking mid af though. NRS please buff

Been experimenting with this team a lot as well, think more peeps should give this Kameo a shot. On top of what you said Jax is also an assist that allows Reptile to confirm off of F211 and F311 with air grab in the corner.

 

[Blakfellow]

I thought he was refering to mkx d'vorah but I may be a dumbass lol

He was indeed referring to mk11 Devorah…
Also how is 60% one bar midscreen mileena worse than reptile?…

 

[Blakfellow]

Anyone been able to do the jump cancel cancel tech off 23?

What are the inputs for this??

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Anyone been able to do the jump cancel cancel tech off 23?

Not sure if it's possible, I'll try it today. I seem to do best off special moves by inputting U right after the special move like I'm linking it on. As long as I'm in recovery or active frames of that special it cancels the recovery like I jumped.
I've heard there is a way to cancel the D2 jump cancels without it automatically burning meter by adjusting the input timing of the R2. This was shown on a Rooflemonger video on YouTube.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Hold up. We're not ACTUALLY pretending MK11 D'vorah is top tier?
It's really come to that? The character that HAD to equip Strepsitera to put up any semblance of a fight at all?

Yeah nah forget what the rest of you say, Buff Reptile. Being solid is not enough, He must be more.

Oh absolutely not. Saying she was seen as bottom 2 and after Sonic discovered tech and a new momentum style of scary oki they all put her around Mid tier after the honeymoon phase was over.
Just like Reptile in 1 I'm not claiming him to be top tier but his buttons alone and his moveset at least makes him solid.
There are definitely things I think need to be fixed that are not Needs but moreso wants for me.
EX invisibility having stronger properties than meterless version. This can be faster startup, longer duration, 1 hit of armor on startup which is honestly broke, maybe the ability to cancel off the startup to create a mind game, hell id take a damage boost to combos if I spent 2Bars on EX Invis if it had slightly faster startup, if it was 1Bar a small damage boost without faster startup.
Honeybee mentioned S3 pulling them in on block should have pushback instead.
He has good buttons but just a little dirt would be fun.
But I definitely believe Reptile can place in top 16's.