Reptile General Discussion

[Blakfellow]

Two of his best tools

What do you mean the best invisibility? You mean the one that compared to Smoke's takes ages to startup and the meter one doesn't do anything differently? And what do you mean by legit 50/50? There's still sound which means for such a long overhead startup that should be good enough and also, screen snaps back a little bit when he goes for the overhead. I bet players in competitive scene will react to his mix up even while invisible.

How about the fact that his most important string by a mile has a gap where you can armor through it (b31).

or even worse, that his best “cheap” tool, mb elbow dash has a huge gap that allows for a flawless block punish.
We are getting away with this now but I can see top players starting to punish me now…

let him be. I doubt he even plays reptile at a high level.
He claims that all the top players say reptile is strong yet not a single one of them plays him except honeybee who just put out a video asking for buffs.

anyways. Here is a bit of tech. He can combo off of his back throw with cyrax and the following is the only consistent combo route I can find. It does a chunky 188dmg and allows for good oki.

 

[Blakfellow]

So some of the things I've learned. Haven't done a read through the thread, so not sure what you guys have found.

-d4 acid hand from MK9 is...kinda back? Cancelling to close and medium forceball is a trap, especially when spaced.

-Both lvl2 b2 and f32 are safe jump setups. b2 needs manual timing (tap direction then jump). f32 is auto-timed. b2 route is necessary for some wakeups in the corner (Reiko for example).

-Ketchup and Mustard talked about Reptile in their tier list, and mentioned that Sub helps with invisibility setups pretty well and might be the way going forward. Been experimenting and yeah, I'm inclined to agree. I won't be surprised if kameos that help set up invisibility are going to work the best for him.

Idk, the more I play Reptile, the more I think he's...largely fine? He's seeming to be a mid-range pressure character with invisibility mind games. Probably has a decently high ceiling.

Been using d4 into fb a lot with cyrax kameo to cover. Has been working like a charm

 

[Blakfellow]

Here we go, again. The Sub-Zero MU with his Ice Clone BS

I feel like the mu is not nearly as bad as it has been in previous games. The fact that reptiles forceball breaks the clone is a game changer imo

 

[Legion DC]

I can't get out of Grand Masters with Reptile. He's so bad.
It's a struggle sticking with this character.

I gotta start using some overheads more *

 

[Blakfellow]

I can't get out of Grand Masters with Reptile. He's so bad.
It's a struggle sticking with this character.

I gotta start using some overheads more *

He definitely needs some love but here is some advice from someone who will be god rank very soon. Imo your best tool is your mb elbow dash. It reaches 3/4 of the screen and the goal is to make your opponent scared to move or start jumping so don’t be afraid to use it in the neutral at first. Once you condition them to stop moving, you start controlling the tempo and wave dash initiate “pressure” at your convenience. It’s hard to to open up a good player sometimes since they know b3 staggers while good are negative and you’ll see them starting to just jump back out of b3 range. That’s when you can micro dash back into force balls.
staggers into d1-mb dash can also be helpful to condition players not to counter poke. Do not use the over head too much. Top level players will punish it consistently and you get almost nothing for it

 

[Wam-Zlay]

I can't get out of Grand Masters with Reptile. He's so bad.
It's a struggle sticking with this character.

I gotta start using some overheads more *

It's not the fault of the character, but yours

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

It's not the fault of the character, but yours

That is some bullshit. Yes, you can get to Elder God with even Sub Zero, but you have to work 4 times harder than Johnny, raiden and baraka. Same with reptile which is an ok character. The thing is: and ok character in a game with excellent characters, like mk1, becomes redundant fast lol

 

[M2Dave]

How about the fact that his most important string by a mile has a gap where you can armor through it (b31).

or even worse, that his best “cheap” tool, mb elbow dash has a huge gap that allows for a flawless block punish.
We are getting away with this now but I can see top players starting to punish me now…

No reason to armor or flawless block any more. Just pick a character with an invincible kameo and mash away. LOL.

 

[Blakfellow]

No reason to armor or flawless block any more. Just pick a character with an invincible kameo and mash away. LOL.

Exactly. The issue is that he is a little awkward to fight against at first but once the meta develops, he has some of the worst holes in the entire cast.

I challenge someone to name 5 characters worse than him

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

What do you mean the best invisibility? You mean the one that compared to Smoke's takes ages to startup and the meter one doesn't do anything differently? And what do you mean by legit 50/50? There's still sound which means for such a long overhead startup that should be good enough and also, screen snaps back a little bit when he goes for the overhead. I bet players in competitive scene will react to his mix up even while invisible.

I agree but it's the multiple options that mix while being invisible. His overhead is reactable but most of the top players aren't reacting to these moves they lab Duck OS or Fuzzy Guard and that's how they block everything for the majority of moves.
When he is invisible there is no OS or Fuzzy Guard and that's what I think is strong. Do I wish he had a buff to EX invisibility or at least a hit of armor, absolutely. But with staggers, hit throw mix and his great wiff punishing buttons and absurd long ranged S3 used with B4 I think his mix is sufficient.
I feel the game is very new and much will be discovered.
I just watched HoneyBee do a 47% that was fairly easy so that pretty good damage using Scorpion Kameo. But Honeybee's Reptile gameplan is to mostly sacrifice a bit of damage for Invisible setups and OKI, staying at the B4/S3 range is where he's most useful and using 50/50's while invisible and B2/B3 on OKI is pretty strong.
Most of the characters like Reiko have a second hit 50/50 that is a shared string, which is Duck OS/Fuzzy Guard defeated.
He's not S Tier but he's solid

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

How about the fact that his most important string by a mile has a gap where you can armor through it (b31).

Kameos my man, they fill gaps and can make shit plus or safe, continue pressure and create additional mind games, bait your opponent to eat 40-47% or cut it off short for setups they also can't armor through something they can't see.

Hers Honeybee's Reptile just started using Stryker. He's thought Reptile was low tier but I think the game is early and Kameos do a lot to fill weaknesses in fact carry them up tiers.
IMO honeybee's a great player and I respect him. But I think he is being to hasty on his judgement before he has even used all the Kameos or learned all the tech and matchups.
He is starting to realize how powerful Reptile|Stryker is, how it covers gaps, makes yolo unsafe moves safe, makes unsafe moves plus on BLK while granting launch into combo on hit. Then he adds 50/50 that's +6/+3 on blk. Also gives you a powerful Restand at decent advantage.

That's just one Kameo that synergizes well with Reptiles flaws.

 

[Blakfellow]

Kameos my man, they fill gaps and can make shit plus or safe, continue pressure and create additional mind games, bait your opponent to eat 40-47% or cut it off short for setups they also can't armor through something they can't see.

Hers Honeybee's Reptile just started using Stryker. He's thought Reptile was low tier but I think the game is early and Kameos do a lot to fill weaknesses in fact carry them up tiers.
IMO honeybee's a great player and I respect him. But I think he is being to hasty on his judgement before he has even used all the Kameos or learned all the tech and matchups.
He is starting to realize how powerful Reptile|Stryker is, how it covers gaps, makes yolo unsafe moves safe, makes unsafe moves plus on BLK while granting launch into combo on hit. Then he adds 50/50 that's +6/+3 on blk. Also gives you a powerful Restand at decent advantage.

That's just one Kameo that synergizes well with Reptiles flaws.

Can you show us your reptile gameplay? There must be something that all of us plus top players are missing that you might have figured out …
You keep pointing to kameos to justify his tier placement saying that they “help cover flaws” but that’s literally true for every single character in the game. You also keep pointing to his invisibility mixup. Although it is strong in itself, it doesn’t matter when you have to cut the combo short and get a low 31% combo compared to 50% combos the top tier are doing.
I challenge you to name 7 characters that are worse than reptile. I’ll wait..
Again no one is saying you can’t win with him but it’s just annoying how people who don’t even play the character at a high level up play him.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Idk if it was already known but Reptile can combo off of his bf4 with Sektors up rocket, Goro up punch too.

 

[Legion DC]

It's not the fault of the character, but yours

dude ,
These People are running away full screen waiting for you to slip. I'm tired of chasing people. That's all Im doing.
Then, you get in what you got? no plus frames to work with. Mid is azz. S3 is azz. it sucks them in. don't know why it does that. And Im not trying to charge an overhead. Wish I could cancel it. A wrong time force ball, and it's curtains for Reptile. He gets punish. I'm whining because I have to actually use meter to get something started against these scared players

 

[chud_munson]

You know, I'm starting to have some decent success with Reptile. One thing that helps him is he's got some crazy range. His b4 is ridiculous. His d2 is ridiculous. The plan I have so far is just to condition people to block low, never jump, and be afraid to move. People get the memo that all his safe stuff and workhorse starter is low, so they get really comfortable blocking low.

But if you throw Darrius in there, there are some good overhead options, particularly his instant that you can start up while you're doing a starter, lead that into his double overhead, and do his low starter once the second overhead hits and it's a practically guaranteed full combo.

His s3 also cancels into his fang drop, which is kinda neat because lots of times people are blocking low, or they think you whiffed and try to go on the offense, only to get dropped.

His bf2 amped is a safe overhead. It can help you get out of a corner, or just add to the mixup potential.

What I'm still struggling with is I haven't found a great way to get his invisibility game going, I have some struggles against characters that bring a lot of pressure, and I'll still get beat up pretty good in the corner sometimes without an obvious way out, but those are more skill issues and needed lab time rather than Rep problems.

I'm not arguing that Reptile is top tier or anything, but I'm winning more than I'm losing with him at this point.

 

[Legion DC]

Well.. I'm not trying to throw a pity party, either. Let me say, I lab every character. I know how to block peoples shit! Knowing every characters strings you start seeing the bullcrap this game has presented itself to you. It turns into a plain guessing game against some of these characters. Just wish my Reptile had guessing tools, but he's not that kind of character. Real truth is.. I need to start guessing better. I'm really mad at myself especially, when I guess wrong. I cant stand when I lose to Sub-O, Shao Khan, and Johnny Cage. I tend to win then lose.. Back and forth against those characters. Then, After them comes the Raidens/Jax and Barakas/Cyrax. I dont need to say anything lol I'm im my 4Os. think I need to hang it up or start playing with meta characters and get carried

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Well.. I'm not trying to throw a pity party, either. Let me say, I lab every character. I know how to block peoples shit! Knowing every characters strings you start seeing the bullcrap this game has presented itself to you. It turns into a plain guessing game against some of these characters. Just wish my Reptile had guessing tools, but he's not that kind of character. Real truth is.. I need to start guessing better. I'm really mad at myself especially, when I guess wrong. I cant stand when I lose to Sub-O, Shao Khan, and Johnny Cage. I tend to win then lose.. Back and forth against those characters. Then, After them comes the Raidens/Jax and Barakas/Cyrax. I dont need to say anything lol I'm im my 4Os. think I need to hang it up or start playing with meta characters and get carried

If your having problems having to guess vs A+ and S Tiers then you need to practice Duck OS and Fuzzy Guard because it auto guards against most of the top tiers mix options including their throws/CMD Grabs.
Here is a great video on it by Sny Guy:

He doesn't use Reptile but what tech he shared is universal options for the entire cast just slightly adjust accordingly.
When I learned Duck OS and Fuzzy Guard in MKX I suddenly looked like a pro by blocking the crazy hard to blockables that was in that game. I quickly realized the top players weren't reacting at a higher level and individually guarding against top tiers mix, it's Option Select tech that does it for them after they beat the sequence into their muscle memory that covers 99% of their options.

I hope this helps you with Reptile vs Baraka, Kenshi, Raiden and other top tiers

 

[chud_munson]

Man, I keep going back and forth about this character. I'm just having so much trouble opening people up for a combo. I have to be constantly on to just outplay someone enough to sneak a combo in there, and lots of the time it includes a kameo. So, I can pretty much guarantee a combo 80% of the time with Darrius, but it kills the entire kameo bar. Cyrax is kinda nice to apply a little pressure while I crack an invisibility, but it's a kameo just to be able to use what I assume is a core part of Reptile's gameplan. Stryker has some decent mixup potential, but it's kameo usage just to be able to mix at all; something so many other characters get for free. I don't even necessarily need to be able to have 50/50s, I'm just getting tired of spending some type of meter to have a reasonable overhead option. Plus, even if I do open someone up and blow all the cash in the bank, I don't think I've seen any way for him to crack 40%, so he doesn't even really get a huge reward for the effort. I dunno, sometimes I feel like I'm playing an MK11 character in MK1.

I do think Reptile's fun and there are a few mind games he has access to, they're just expensive, rely heavily on kameos, and people catch on fairly quickly. That last part is really the kicker. Once people learn the matchup, a lot of his tricks are less potent so you sort of just have to catch people making mistakes. If you're a spectacular player like Honeybee, I'm sure you can make all this work, but I'd imagine that's more about consistently outplaying people and you can do that with any character if you're a player of his caliber. I'm not a player of his caliber, so I'm thinking it's time to try out a few more characters on the side that can keep pace with this game a little better.

 

[ImpostorOak]

I feel like the lone member of this site that's committed to Reptile.

B3, B4, S3, and F2 are great normals.

EX dash being safe is insane, especially with Stryker grenades to cover gaps. Stryker offers so much more than mix, the OH is plus 6 ffs.

I really think Reptile will end up being seen as high mid tier with no changes, but I still think this game is too deep to have figured out who's bad. I was hearing Rain was trash until like, yesterday.

Not being able to open people up is crazy. B3 has so much range. Grab people. This game is made to where you SHOULD use Kameos to open people.

Invisibility mix is good. Dash punishing any and everything feels amazing. Idk, I'm winning consistently and having fun with a character I love.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Reptile lacks any plus strings, and has one that is 0 on block. Everything else gets punished or you lose your turn, so you either keep mid distance and "zone" with forceballs, which are -13 IIRC and very slow startup and try staggering with b3 until you open them up, or do random yolo dash (which can be upblocked and punished if you ex meter it, and outright punished if not EX).

His other normals are too stubby or just dont lead to a combo unless you spend kameo bar. His overhead is unsafe.

His ex invisibility does nothing.

There is no way in hell he is high mid tier in this game, imo. Honeybee is so far the only person I've seen playing him with any relative success, and even then he struggles hard against Johnnies and the like. And that of course is not ignoring the fact that Honeybee is a phenomenal player that consistently placed good in many tournaments.

I can see Reptile going up some tiers if, and only if, they improve his frame data. Make things safer, faster or with more range. Maybe add some properties to invisibility and acid spit like damage over time, increased chip on block, or just anything.

 

[ImpostorOak]

Reptile lacks any plus strings, and has one that is 0 on block. Everything else gets punished or you lose your turn, so you either keep mid distance and "zone" with forceballs, which are -13 IIRC and very slow startup and try staggering with b3 until you open them up, or do random yolo dash (which can be upblocked and punished if you ex meter it, and outright punished if not EX).

His other normals are too stubby or just dont lead to a combo unless you spend kameo bar. His overhead is unsafe.

His ex invisibility does nothing.

There is no way in hell he is high mid tier in this game, imo. Honeybee is so far the only person I've seen playing him with any relative success, and even then he struggles hard against Johnnies and the like. And that of course is not ignoring the fact that Honeybee is a phenomenal player that consistently placed good in many tournaments.

I can see Reptile going up some tiers if, and only if, they improve his frame data. Make things safer, faster or with more range. Maybe add some properties to invisibility and acid spit like damage over time, increased chip on block, or just anything.

Move up some tiers? How bad do you think he is? Lol
You think he's worse than Sub Zero? Or Nitara? Or Mileena? Smoke? Liu? That's not how I see it, but sure.

My opinion doesn't matter or anything, I'm just an old head wanna be top player. But he seems extremely solid to me and I don't really struggle playing the mid screen game.

What Kameos are yall using? I use Cyrax, Stryker, and Sub-Zero depending on MU.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Man, I keep going back and forth about this character. I'm just having so much trouble opening people up for a combo. I have to be constantly on to just outplay someone enough to sneak a combo in there, and lots of the time it includes a kameo. So, I can pretty much guarantee a combo 80% of the time with Darrius, but it kills the entire kameo bar. Cyrax is kinda nice to apply a little pressure while I crack an invisibility, but it's a kameo just to be able to use what I assume is a core part of Reptile's gameplan. Stryker has some decent mixup potential, but it's kameo usage just to be able to mix at all; something so many other characters get for free. I don't even necessarily need to be able to have 50/50s, I'm just getting tired of spending some type of meter to have a reasonable overhead option. Plus, even if I do open someone up and blow all the cash in the bank, I don't think I've seen any way for him to crack 40%, so he doesn't even really get a huge reward for the effort. I dunno, sometimes I feel like I'm playing an MK11 character in MK1.

I do think Reptile's fun and there are a few mind games he has access to, they're just expensive, rely heavily on kameos, and people catch on fairly quickly. That last part is really the kicker. Once people learn the matchup, a lot of his tricks are less potent so you sort of just have to catch people making mistakes. If you're a spectacular player like Honeybee, I'm sure you can make all this work, but I'd imagine that's more about consistently outplaying people and you can do that with any character if you're a player of his caliber. I'm not a player of his caliber, so I'm thinking it's time to try out a few more characters on the side that can keep pace with this game a little better.

Look at Chris G and Honeybee's Reptile using Stryker. If you look at the UK scene there are several top players using Reptile.
Stryker does so much, allows combos off string not normally possible, extends combo damage if you do string grounded into grenades into combo starter.
It fills his gaps, it makes his unsafe moves safe all you need it's Kameo timing.
Then strykers Overhead and Low are plus on block, you want them to block and eat the pressure into opening up or pressure into back dash wiff punish with B31
Honeybee pulled off a 47% on streem

I and everyone though Rain was low tier up till now, using Stryker Kameo combined with water beam cancels made his pressure insane and greatly improved his midscreen and corner damage for 1Bar took a 32% BNB to 43%

Just an example

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Move up some tiers? How bad do you think he is? Lol
You think he's worse than Sub Zero? Or Nitara? Or Mileena? Smoke? Liu? That's not how I see it, but sure.

My opinion doesn't matter or anything, I'm just an old head wanna be top player. But he seems extremely solid to me and I don't really struggle playing the mid screen game.

What Kameos are yall using? I use Cyrax, Stryker, and Sub-Zero depending on MU.

The way I see, there are 5 tiers right now:

Top 4
A+
A
B
Sub zero tier.

It is my honest opinion that Reptile sits solidly at the top of the B tier, when I'd want him to be at A+ at the minimum lol.

Of course, everything I say is just my personal take and obviously not an universal truth. I must say, however, that I've been playing competitively since MK9 whenever possible against top Brazilian players (and scoring some wins here and there at offline locals), so the way I see, there's seldom any characters from outside the top 2 tiers that make any top 8 placement in any major tournament.

I have not yet tested Stryker, though. Mostly trying out Scorpion, who gives a welcome damage bonus do Reptile's combos and helps with invisibility setups, and also helps with sneaking an overhead into distracted players.

Is stryker that much better? All I see is people using the grenades to keep things safe - they don't combo if you are juggling an opponent, unlike scorpion's fireballs, and his overhead/low leads to nothing on hit.

 

[chud_munson]

I feel like the lone member of this site that's committed to Reptile.

B3, B4, S3, and F2 are great normals.

EX dash being safe is insane, especially with Stryker grenades to cover gaps. Stryker offers so much more than mix, the OH is plus 6 ffs.

I really think Reptile will end up being seen as high mid tier with no changes, but I still think this game is too deep to have figured out who's bad. I was hearing Rain was trash until like, yesterday.

Not being able to open people up is crazy. B3 has so much range. Grab people. This game is made to where you SHOULD use Kameos to open people.

Invisibility mix is good. Dash punishing any and everything feels amazing. Idk, I'm winning consistently and having fun with a character I love.

So, there are a couple ways you can look at it. On one hand, you can say "Reptile is totally devoid of strengths, he's terrible, you can't win with him, etc." That's not what I'm saying. There are plenty of ways you can win with Reptile. I'm above .500 in KL using only Reptile, and that includes the first few sets where I literally didn't even remember his buttons.

But what I keep coming back to is digging the depths to find things that let him compete with other characters, let alone things that he is uniquely great at. For example, I feel like B4 is an insanely good normal, and his D2 is nuts. His B31 is great too. So you make people hesitant to block high and jump in, which is good on paper, but there is no real obvious way to get people to stop blocking low. Sure, there are ways, but they're either unsafe, reactable, cost kameo/meter, or some combination of those things. God forbid I spend all my meter and kameo breaking an hour long Johnny combo, now my character is hobbled.

I hear what you're saying about the fact that the thinking should be that you need to use kameos to cover up a character's weaknesses, and I agree with that sentiment. I love the idea that you need to either use a kameo to compensate for weakness, or you can be aggressive, double down on your strengths, and outplay your opponent. But there are characters that don't need to do that, they can just double down on strengths and press buttons.

I think it just needs to be easier to hit his invisibility, have it last longer, make it have a quicker startup, survive blocks, or some combo of those things. IMO, it's not that Reptile needs all of his frames updated everywhere, it's just that he needs something to make opponents second guess what they're doing or you're doing, which is ostensibly what the whole invisibility gimmick is about. But since it takes forever to start, doesn't last long, goes away on block, it's basically this immense cost and setup to make them guess maybe once.

I'm not cynical, I'm going to keep playing Reptile on and off, and I do think people will find things, patches will happen, etc., I'm just also eager to spend some time with a character where I don't have to try so damn hard to get rolling.

 

[chud_munson]

Stryker does so much, allows combos off string not normally possible, extends combo damage if you do string grounded into grenades into combo starter.
It fills his gaps, it makes his unsafe moves safe all you need it's Kameo timing.
Then strykers Overhead and Low are plus on block, you want them to block and eat the pressure into opening up or pressure into back dash wiff punish with B31

I'll have to spend more time with Stryker. Trust me, I'm not trying to win an argument here, I desperately want to be wrong about Reptile lol