Rain General Discussion

[SaltShaker]

What you got? 0.0

So I typically try to avoid as much guessing as possible in setups on my end. Feel like most people do two things, the regular setup which is great but sucks to delayed WU, and the dash F3 setup which is great against delayed WU but sucks against armor WU lol. You're almost pulling a 50/50 with our own setup. I've noticed that strong players who know the setup will delay WU to see if YOU know what to do, then if you do the delayed WU setup they'll start switching between their options to counter, and you're guessing as much as they are. I didn't like playing that oki at all.

Instead what I've been doing against better players is the setup into beam, puddle, then dash and Option-select J2 343 2 to basically get either the OH into combo or the air string into air combo. If they block low the OH hits them, if they get hit by the puddle the air string combos them. Reloop them etc. If they armor you beat it, if they delay WU you beat it. The only true option they have is to stand directly up and block low then OH back to back and then you pressure them, which then of course YOU can mix up the other version to throw them off. I find this much better than what's currently being used out there, but not sure if enough people have found it yet. With this version the "worst case scenario" is that you are pressuring them on block with enough time to do a string or cancel the OH string into grab or whatever pressure you go for, and every other scenario is a full combo or re-loop ender. Extremely low risk, very high reward.

I guess that is why Sonic Fox thinks Rain is good.

I know I complain about this character incessantly, but he is fun to play. I just wish the zoning and some of his normal attacks were better.

Yea I don't know what they were talking about on the KK with this zoner talk. He doesn't feel much like a zoner at all imo. Something like Shang with Lao's Low Hat (where I'm about to jump ship to I think) is much more zoning than Rain could dream to be. Rain is more of a setplay character that has some tools to "zone" situationally. Like being able to get the loops back to back with one Kameo, there are situations where Rain can go for 1-bar combo resets and pretty much kill you with a couple of wrong-guess resets into a finishing combo, literally not allowing you to play the game lol. Only a matter of time before Sonic picks him up, he's a character made for Sonic. I thought he was pretty trash at first because some these normals/frames/hitboxes feel bad and the falsely advertised zoning is average, but now I think he needs someone with the uber offense mind to bring out his peak which means I definitely can't take him past gatekeeper level LOL!


EDIT: Typos

 

[bmoee1]

I’ve been trying to do this a bit but I might be confused… what does inputting 343 make you do? I can only get the 2 to come out.

 

[SaladPlateLover]

I’ve been trying to do this a bit but I might be confused… what does inputting 343 make you do? I can only get the 2 to come out.

He doesn't have 343 so yeah you are pretty lost lol

 

[SaltShaker]

I’ve been trying to do this a bit but I might be confused… what does inputting 343 make you do? I can only get the 2 to come out.

Make sure you start from grounded, and hard to find a vid anywhere but I found one just now that's close enough:

Go to about the 4:30 mark and it the visual might help explain it better. Do it like this.

 

[Fatality o]

 

[Fatality o]

 

[SaltShaker]

Gonna have to steal this one from you lol. Kano is a really strong Kameo for Rain too.

 

[bmoee1]

Really good stuff fellas. Thanks

 

[Geoffmeister]

Instead what I've been doing against better players is the setup into beam, portal, then dash and Option-select J2 343 2 to basically get either the OH into combo or the air string into air combo. If they block low the OH hits them, if they get hit by the puddle the air string combos them. Reloop them etc. If they armor you beat it, if they delay WU you beat it. The only true option they have is to stand directly up and block low then OH back to back and then you pressure them, which then of course YOU can mix up the other version to throw them off. I find this much better than what's currently being used out there, but not sure if enough people have found it yet. With this version the "worst case scenario" is that you are pressuring them on block with enough time to do a string or cancel the OH string into grab or whatever pressure you go for, and every other scenario is a full combo or re-loop ender. Extremely low risk, very high reward.

I'm sure you mean Trap instead of Portal! But that sounds interesting, there's a few characters (Johnny, Ashrah) who dgaf about the unblockable-setup and can just armor out, this is def nice to use on a read (when block isn't the better option). I go test~

edit: This is actually genius lol.
This works on delay or instant wake-up armor, like Johnnys Ball Buster (which normally beats the instant unblockable),it even jumps over Shao's armor lolol...

 

[exeeter702]

I'm sure you mean Trap instead of Portal! But that sounds interesting, there's a few characters (Johnny, Ashrah) who dgaf about the unblockable-setup and can just armor out, this is def nice to use on a read (when block isn't the better option). I go test~



Btw portalport is not 35 frames here, you have to take into account the (JiK-)cancel advantage, which I'm not sure is even known (as it isn't in the movelist).

There are absolutely ways to test frame data for moves in the absence of (reliable) frame data in game, but I was not trying to get too far in the weeds here. They have at least that many frames to visually see the portal hop (closer to 41f) , even if they have less then that before the game allows them to press a button. If the point is to argue it isn't reactable, that is certainly false.

 

[SaltShaker]

I'm sure you mean Trap instead of Portal! But that sounds interesting, there's a few characters (Johnny, Ashrah) who dgaf about the unblockable-setup and can just armor out, this is def nice to use on a read (when block isn't the better option). I go test~

edit: This is actually genius lol.
This works on delay or instant wake-up armor, like Johnnys Ball Buster (which normally beats the instant unblockable),it even jumps over Shao's armor lolol...

vid inc

Just edited meant "puddle" not portal haha but you got it. And funny enough I was gonna use Shao as a reference as an armor that beats most characters setups but won't "full combo your setup" in this one. Once people think they "got you" this has been carrying me lol and I still think it is mostly unknown given how even top players are using the same two setups and there are minimal Rain players.

 

[M2Dave]

I thought he was pretty trash at first because some these normals/frames/hitboxes feel bad and the falsely advertised zoning is average, but now I think he needs someone with the uber offense mind to bring out his peak which means I definitely can't take him past gatekeeper level LOL!

I still believe he is trash, but Sub Zero fixes him and... actually makes him viable?

By the way, can any character punish the last hit of 1,1,2 after flawless blocking? The string becomes -10 with pushback, but I doubt any jabs can reach.

On an irrelevant note, NRS cracks me up with "Your strategies do not hold any water". LOL. The only thing missing is "Where there is Rain, there is water." Record the line happen and make it happen, NRS.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I still believe he is trash, but Sub Zero fixes him and... actually makes him viable?

By the way, can any character punish the last hit of 1,1,2 after flawless blocking? The string becomes -10 with pushback, but I doubt any jabs can reach.

On an irrelevant note, NRS cracks me up with "Your strategies do not hold any water". LOL. The only thing missing is "Where there is Rain, there is water." Record the line happen and make it happen, NRS.

This. He's so dependent on Kameos which means you need to pick your poison. That said, if we get a kameo that let's him keep pressure, mid projectile, and let's him combo off geyser via an ambush, he'll significantly improve.

And.. thats honestly how we gotta look at the game? Kameos are potential universal buffs for the cast imo, soI guess we'll see what happens in the future.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Kung Lao has some dirt..

Gonna mess with him a bit. For sure 2112 is a true 50/50 with low hat and it's safe + can cover the gap at the end

 

[SaltShaker]

I still believe he is trash, but Sub Zero fixes him and... actually makes him viable?

By the way, can any character punish the last hit of 1,1,2 after flawless blocking? The string becomes -10 with pushback, but I doubt any jabs can reach.

On an irrelevant note, NRS cracks me up with "Your strategies do not hold any water". LOL. The only thing missing is "Where there is Rain, there is water." Record the line happen and make it happen, NRS.

Yea haha that's a better way of saying it, usable, but still not good like the actual good characters LOL!

Funny enough, my bud who mains Mileena discovered this about 112 and was Flawless punishing me for it last night, so it threw me off. Went to practice and thought it was maybe Mileena having a longer range S1, only to realize most characters can full combo punish it (Kenshi S1, Rain himself S1, Johnny F3, etc etc etc). To say this is not good would be an understatement. "When it rains it pours".

 

[DarksydeDash]

2112 and 211 bf1 is legit. I've been exposing so many people trying to flawless block or take their turn.

 

[SaltShaker]

2112 and 211 bf1 is legit. I've been exposing so many people trying to flawless block or take their turn.

I'm a bit confused. Wouldn't they just block anyway and leave you really negative?? Lol.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Being Negative doesn't matter if your opponent is too far to punish it.

 

[M2Dave]

Breh, I have been trying, but fighting the top tier characters with Rain has been a struggle. Baraka and Raiden kill you in two hits while Cage and Kenshi are oppressive up close. There is no way to zone these characters. Also, when opponents know how to block f+3 on reaction and mix up delay wake up with non-delay wake up, the "unblockable" can be difficult to enforce.

Unsurprisingly, most tournament players and content creators rank this character very low. In the most recent tier list, Rooflemonger has Rain as the worst character in the game. I am going to keep using Reiko in Kombat League (in spite of the hate comments... LOL) and wait for some buffs. Hopefully, he gets something valuable.

Water stream should hit mid given its slow startup. Would mid and far water portals be overpowered?

 

[SaltShaker]

Breh, I have been trying, but fighting the top tier characters with Rain has been a struggle. Baraka and Raiden kill you in two hits while Cage and Kenshi are oppressive up close. There is no way to zone these characters. Also, when opponents know how to block f+3 on reaction and mix up delay wake up with non-delay wake up, the "unblockable" can be difficult to enforce.

Unsurprisingly, most tournament players and content creators rank this character very low. In the most recent tier list, Rooflemonger has Rain as the worst character in the game. I am going to keep using Reiko in Kombat League (in spite of the hate comments... LOL) and wait for some buffs. Hopefully, he gets something valuable.

Water stream should hit mid given its slow startup. Would mid and far water portals be overpowered?

Lots of my enthusiasm has waned as well once I brought him out for long sets against good players. Battle is too uphill for my liking so I'll just use him as a "wind down for fun" character unless something changes going forward. Kasuals matchmaking type stuff while sipping a drink type of character LOL.

I don't think close/mid/far portals would be OP at all, especially considering his current kit and others characters. To top off all the character limitations he also does low damage too. Really feel like some of his stuff should be sped up and/or his frames improved by a good amount in general. Using Sindel and Ashrah then going to Rain is just demoralizing at this point. Not knowing when NRS actually is planning to do a balance patch has me one foot out the door now on him.

 

[bmoee1]

Breh, I have been trying, but fighting the top tier characters with Rain has been a struggle. Baraka and Raiden kill you in two hits while Cage and Kenshi are oppressive up close. There is no way to zone these characters. Also, when opponents know how to block f+3 on reaction and mix up delay wake up with non-delay wake up, the "unblockable" can be difficult to enforce.

Unsurprisingly, most tournament players and content creators rank this character very low. In the most recent tier list, Rooflemonger has Rain as the worst character in the game. I am going to keep using Reiko in Kombat League (in spite of the hate comments... LOL) and wait for some buffs. Hopefully, he gets something valuable.

Water stream should hit mid given its slow startup. Would mid and far water portals be overpowered?

Yeah, after Demi god it’s just 50%ers or cyrax spam. Shoot, I’ve even ran into some reikos who just spammed projectile because they know my options are extremely limited. He really does have to work hard for a win.

I mainly want to see a change in the frame data on his projectiles. Most of the cast has projectiles start up between 18-25. if they lower water beam startup to the mid 20’s, he can at least defend himself.lol

Reptile ashrah and shang have been giving me a better online experience for sure.

 

[exeeter702]

Rain

Bubble Follows Rain by default. Meter burn adds fully durability instead of 2 projectiles only, and lasts an additional second.

Water beam either sped up, or give it additional damage & chip. Meter beam hits mid.

Add an additional command to use confluence beam with only one portal tethered to Rain.

Confluence beam either increased damage & chip, make it a launcher anywhere on screen or give Rain armor during use.

Rain God crushes all lows and also mid Projectiles

Add invulnerable frames at the very end of portal hop(entering), so Rain can't be hit out of it on reaction when he is literally off screen OR change portal hop command (to not conflict with confluence beam) and give it a unique meter burn that gives hop armor. If not, then you really need to make portal hop(entering) FAR faster and leave the reaction punish check for portal exit.

f2,1,3 less safe on block

f3'2 less safe on block with more pushback. Slight increase to range. On hit from max range effects combo route options.

b4 slight increase to range

d3 more pushback on block

d4.... Man I dont even know

Db1 up beam faster startup, less damage. Enhanced unchanged.

That's all I care about.

 

[Ptehu]

to be fair I'm kind of glad that you guys think that he needs buffs. It makes me happy, because probably NRS will listen and playing with my boi will be even easier than rn.

As I've mentioned couple times already - I'm casual, I don't care about 100hit combos, frame counting and grinding only meta picks. I'm even happy with how Rain looks right now and I can only imagine how he will look when he is buffed.

So all the C tier/D tier placements - I'm all for it. But on his current state? I'm really diggin his playstyle and I can admit, he is not the easiest/cheapest character in the game, but there is something in him that actually makes playing him funny.

So yea - ask for buffs guys, let's make him even more fun to play

 

[M2Dave]

Kasuals matchmaking type stuff while sipping a drink type of character LOL.

You literally just described my week nights as I was going through Kombat League with Rain. LOL. I took a shot every time Baraka/Cyrax and Raiden/Jax hit me with a 50%+ combo.

@exeeter702 I like some of your suggestions, but I think that reducing the startup of water stream is a predictable and, no offense, boring change. NRS needs to experiment and develop strong zoning characters who perform more than one or two projectiles that shut down half the cast in a dominant and monotonous fashion, as observed in previous games.

My interpretation of Rain's gameplay design is the following. Keep the slow start of water stream, but change the hit range to mid, forcing opponents to flawless block or jump. When opponents start jumping, do Rain God. Yes, both moves are slow yet cancelable so there is some execution and anticipation involved. When opponents attempt to zone you, place the appropriate water portal (and hence the reason for my previous suggestion) on the screen in order to threaten a punish with the teleport. In order to improve footsies, either make d+3 less minus on block or increase the push back on block, as you suggested. Now the character has a game plan that (not to continue the meme) functions properly.

 

[exeeter702]

You literally just described my week nights as I was going through Kombat League with Rain. LOL. I took a shot every time Baraka/Cyrax and Raiden/Jax hit me with a 50%+ combo.

@exeeter702 I like some of your suggestions, but I think that reducing the startup of water stream is a predictable and, no offense, boring change. NRS needs to experiment and develop strong zoning characters who perform more than one or two projectiles that shut down half the cast in a dominant and monotonous fashion, as observed in previous games.

My interpretation of Rain's gameplay design is the following. Keep the slow start of water stream, but change the hit range to mid, forcing opponents to flawless block or jump. When opponents start jumping, do Rain God. Yes, both moves are slow yet cancelable so there is some execution and anticipation involved. When opponents attempt to zone you, place the appropriate water portal (and hence the reason for my previous suggestion) on the screen in order to threaten a punish with the teleport. In order to improve footsies, either make d+3 less minus on block or increase the push back on block, as you suggested. Now the character has a game plan that (not to continue the meme) functions properly.

Me wanting water beam to be faster was more of a diplomatic compromise, I would FAR more wish it to be a notably unique projectile keeping it's speed but making it unfavorable to actually block. But I fear for that to happen they will really need to adjust his bubble or look at standard projectiles across the board in the game.