Rain General Discussion

[bmoee1]

Regarding portals… Subs Projectile invincibility allows us to throw out far ancient traps against a lot of our opponents. Once we condition our opponent to block low at some frequency, we can sneak a portal in. I like to do it after a neutral reset as well.

I feel like we control the space between the portal and rain because if they pass the portal, we can teleport to punish, escape the corner or press the attack when they are wary of us teleporting.

I’m trying to find some portal block string pressure that makes sense but no dice so far. Portal isn’t dead! @exeeter702

 

[exeeter702]

Regarding portals… Subs Projectile invincibility allows us to throw out far ancient traps against a lot of our opponents. Once we condition our opponent to block low at some frequency, we can sneak a portal in. I like to do it after a neutral reset as well.

I feel like we control the space between the portal and rain because if they pass the portal, we can teleport to punish, escape the corner or press the attack when they are wary of us teleporting.

I’m trying to find some portal block string pressure that makes sense but no dice so far. Portal isn’t dead! @exeeter702

There is no legitimate portal high low mix up unless you are already locking someone in block stun with a cameo. It cant be done. Nothing will give you plus enough frames to not get smacked out of portal on reaction.

The only "real" space control is with confluence beam threat. There is no conditioning someone to not blow low full screen, even IF you have a portal on them at full screen and throw out a whirlpool, it will just be blocked low and then you are hit out of portal hop.

Confluence beam needs ONE of these changes maybe 2 if you want to mess with the meter economy for it

-Armor
-Commmand for tether beam from a single portal and Rain
-Do more damage and chip
-Be a legitimate launcher

Portal hop is a gimmick that will only work on ignorant opponents. It was a conceptual idea that NRS did not actually spend any time truly iterating on. If you opponent has no good projectile or gap closing moves, you can MAYBE use it for relocation. As it stands now, use it to build meter and make certain strings less minus on block for pseudo throw mixups. I am still trying to make Rain/Motaro zoning work against some on the roster to with decent results, but its almost entirely from chip and surprise confluence beams from off screen portals. Pray you arent off in your timing to get a portal hop instead because the portal you cant see has expired.

 

[SaladPlateLover]

So Rains buttons are clearly terrible, to the point where you have to rely on jumpin's a lot -> which are very risky due upblock.

If you want to stop dying to this, I suggest the following:

If a portal is out -> Rain can OS his JiK32 with portalport.

You input JiK32 - d,f2:
-> on HIT: the string comes out
-> on block/upblock: the portalport comes out

Consider this a staple in your gameplay because he can't play neutral. Cannot.

Another tip would be to use Far Geyser more (but be wary of your opponents reversal specials), to apply some conditioning.

I feel like he relies mostly on his d3 for neutral.

Geyser is strange. I feel like the only reason it's -16 is because the ex version has armour, otherwise it was supposed to be his designated mid range tool.

 

[Geoffmeister]

Until someone who understands the character, blows you up before you get through the portal jump. There isnt enough block stun on ji3 for this to be applicable. There is plenty of time for a simple d2, and if the opponent is quicker, (which I was able to replicate on random playback confirming) a full ariel route punish is going to happen.

Generally, anyone who upblocks isn't going to do a jump attack (or D2), they might do it in this MU but it's still important to open up this situation, regardless.

Anyway, I agree, portalport should be faster, I don't mean plus portal pressure off standing strings, but at least a little harder to defend against and able to bait out (& punishing) anti-airs or bypassing (& punishing) projectiles, right now it's a gimmick but at least using it off JiK32 you can jump.. sortof.

I feel like he relies mostly on his d3 for neutral.

Geyser is strange. I feel like the only reason it's -16 is because the ex version has armour, otherwise it was supposed to be his designated mid range tool.

Of course, but (imo) you can't give up every offense on a blocked d3 when other characters can build 80% of meter/15% chip/mixup on the same range... (or on ranges further than geyser lol)..

Due to his short range he constantly needs to overextend, and a good jump can beat some keepout-defense. Makes me wonder, though, if his s2 is working as intended, the range is deceivingly non-existent.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I really like Kano with Rain.

Knives let you combo into whirlpool or dash cancel his beam to combo into f32.

Kano Ball makes geyser safe and creates mindgames.

Eye laser is a great long range punish on a lot of things.

 

[exeeter702]

Generally, anyone who upblocks isn't going to do a jump attack (or D2), they might do it in this MU but it's still important to open up this situation, regardless

Im not understanding what you are saying here. There is zero reason to up block against Rain after the jump in. If they are trying to up block the initial jump in, nothing about the OS changes. They up block the jump in 3,(2) and it becomes clear as day whether Rain cancels into portal hop or lands. If they land, you get the punish you were already going to do with from the successful up block (ji3,2 string inc.).

There is no conditioning here. You simply respond to seeing the portal hop startup. No other adjustment is needed from the defender. Its entirely reactionary. The OS doesnt make Rains jump in attempt safe. If anything, its giving the opponent more time to connect a d2 on a jump in the event of a failed up block timing.

 

[Geoffmeister]

If they are trying to up block the initial jump in, nothing about the OS changes. They up block the jump in 3,(2) and it becomes clear as day whether Rain cancels into portal hop or lands. If they land, you get the punish you were already going to do with from the successful up block (ji3,2 string inc.).

Nobody is confirming their upblock into a standing punish or a jumping punish, but they might do it on a read (a favorable one).

• If they are conditioned to (wait and) jump-punish then success -> next time (without teleport) they will lose the punish entirely (and maybe even get launched for it).
• If they start punishing with d2 (which DOES cover the OS) or
• if the (same) punish-string allows combos from the float (generally, they do not)

--> then either way, you just mitigated a decent amount of damage (and potentially created a mindgame that allows you to avoid damage entirely or even gain offense).

The OS doesnt make Rains jump in attempt safe. If anything, its giving the opponent more time to connect a d2 on a jump in the event of a failed up block timing.

Ok to be clear, on block/upblock it will teleport, not on whiff. There isn't "more time" for a d2 here.
And obviously, no, it doesn't BEAT anti-airs, that wasn't the point. This is for the situation where you are getting upblocked.
You could argue that this isn't favorable for the off-chance your opponent was just blocking (not upblocking), in which case they can react accordingly, sure.

Writing all this out, I'm kinda laughing because meanwhile you have characters that teleport instantly, from anywhere, and punish-launch, and then you have Rain who even needs to set it up, slow af, and this is the best, if not only, debatably reliable use for it.

Anyway, IMO it's still worth the mindgame/stress if you can afford to put down a portal in neutral.. but ie. you wouldn't do this to a Reiko whom you are chasing down though.

 

[exeeter702]

Nobody is confirming their upblock into a standing punish or a jumping punish, but they might do it on a read (a favorable one).

• If they are conditioned to (wait and) jump-punish then success -> next time (without teleport) they will lose the punish entirely (and maybe even get launched for it).
• If they start punishing with d2 (which DOES cover the OS) or
• if the (same) punish-string allows combos from the float (generally, they do not)

--> then either way, you just mitigated a decent amount of damage (and potentially created a mindgame that allows you to avoid damage entirely or even gain offense).



Ok to be clear, on block/upblock it will teleport, not on whiff. There isn't "more time" for a d2 here.
And obviously, no, it doesn't BEAT anti-airs, that wasn't the point. This is for the situation where you are getting upblocked.
You could argue that this isn't favorable for the off-chance your opponent was just blocking (not upblocking), in which case they can react accordingly, sure.

Writing all this out, I'm kinda laughing because meanwhile you have characters that teleport instantly, from anywhere, and punish-launch, and then you have Rain who even needs to set it up, slow af, and this is the best, if not only, debatably reliable use for it.

Anyway, IMO it's still worth the mindgame/stress if you can afford to put down a portal in neutral.. but ie. you wouldn't do this to a Reiko whom you are chasing down though.

I never said on whiff... Im telling you that on block or upblock, the portal hop activates, and you get smacked out of it free will full visual confirmation. There is more time to d2 simply because if they werent ready for the AA while holding block, you just gave them a free d2 because they can see the portal hop activation instead of Rain just landing with plus frames. You are giving them one additional chance to hit you with a d2 by essentially adding 28+ additional frames to your jump in. I also never said this beats AAs, the nature of an OS is to cover multiple outcomes with a single action. Your OS does not get you out of a blocked or upblocked jump in, because on either of those cases, the OS automates portal hop after ji3, which is fully punishable with zero read required. Hell, you can even stand1 it and convert into something far better than a d2.

"Rain is jumping at me? Can I AA in time? No? Ok I'll block, did he cancel his jump in into portal? yes, ok let me collect 30 percent of his health."
"Rain is jumping at me? Can I AA in time? No? Ok I'll block, did he cancel his jump in into portal? no, ok standard MK run of the mill pressure game continues"
"Rain is jumping at me? I can for sure AA him so I'll just do that"

Your OS provides no benefit at best, and at worst you get a worse ji starter (outside of the corner) if it connects. There is no mindgame or additional stress being applied because the entirety of one of the two outcomes of the OS is fake and punishable on reaction without any need for the defender to process an additional variable here.

Also, people absolutely confirm upblock punishes, on strings and jump ins both. You know you are going for it, and confirm it with the audio and visual queues.

 

[Geoffmeister]

Your OS provides no benefit at best, and at worst you get a worse ji starter (outside of the corner) if it connects. There is no mindgame or additional stress being applied because the entirety of one of the two outcomes of the OS is fake and punishable on reaction without any need for the defender to process an additional variable here.

Also, people absolutely confirm upblock punishes, on strings and jump ins both. You know you are going for it, and confirm it with the audio and visual queues.

Dude.. No, people are not confirming their upblock between 2 options, because if they did they would get hit out of their advantage. This is fiction. Made it up.
You upblock, you dial in your punisher combo, nobody is registering "should i jump-punish or stand-punish". Nobody. And not everybody can float-combo off their standing punish either.

Now that's out of the way, by all means, do not incorporate this into your gameplan because if you don't know how it works there's nothing to gain.

edit: while on the subject, someone discovered Rains jip2 CAN NOT be upblocked, so.. that's a good argument against using JiK32:

Rain Technology

Thanks to Ultradavid... again. Finding tech since before mk9

testyourmight.com

 

[M2Dave]

I tried using Rain (and Sub Zero as the kameo) seriously in ranked as well as a couple of private matches last night. Winning was considerably more difficult than with Reiko (or even Raiden, whom I barely use. LOL.)

What has everyone else's experience been thus far?

 

[Geoffmeister]

I tried using Rain (and Sub Zero as the kameo) seriously in ranked as well as a couple of private matches last night. Winning was considerably more difficult than with Reiko (or even Raiden, whom I barely use. LOL.)

What has everyone else's experience been thus far?

Currently just playing ranked, close to God-rank.
Feels like 90% of MUs are against him lmao, those buttons don't compete with anyone but Sub Zero maybe.

Can't go braindead on zoning (like Reiko/Scorpion) or offense chip (like Baraka/JC/Raiden),
No mixup either.
I'm solely winning on d3 and SZ-kameo set-up unblockable, reading their delays. and in general doing galaxy brain stuff.
But it's hard lol, forced to play anyone's game, on defense non-stop, when he has no movement speed or range. And punishing moves with pushback is sometimes impossible. No whiff punish button either lol, just gotta make do with f2.

Anyway, imo he's a soft mid tier (trash). Until he touches you and may deathcombo you pretty much (S-tier).

Also, I've actually lost games trying to buffer Rain God (d,d,u) into low block and getting a taunt instead. Absolutely despise this as a taunt input. -.-

 

[M2Dave]

Anyway, imo he's a soft mid tier (trash). Until he touches you and may deathcombo you pretty much (S-tier).

Could you confirm the setup for me?

String, EX d,b+1, jump 2,4,3, forward dash 1, Sub Zero's forward kameo assist, b,f+1 (fully charged), close puddle, f+3

Also, what do you do when opponents delay their wake up?

Sub Zero appears to be his best kameo by far because of this setup and the ice armor against projectiles, right?

On a side note, I have noticed that 1,1 (the second hit) whiffs randomly on blocking opponents.

I agree with the taunt input. I accidentally taunt as I am canceling Reiko's charging pain, which is really annoying.

 

[Geoffmeister]

Could you confirm the setup for me?

String, EX d,b+1, jump 2,4,3, forward dash 1, Sub Zero's forward kameo assist, b,f+1 (fully charged), close puddle, f+3

Also, what do you do when opponents delay their wake up?

Sub Zero appears to be his best kameo by far because of this setup and the ice armor against projectiles, right?

On a side note, I have noticed that 1,1 (the second hit) whiffs randomly on blocking opponents.

I agree with the taunt input. I accidentally taunt as I am canceling Reiko's charging pain, which is really annoying.

That's the setup, correct.
If done perfect, the low and overhead hit on the same frame and will pop-up for full launch, if not perfect they bounce away (which you can hitconfirm with Far geyser (22%) or Fatal blow (45%~)
If your opponent is delaying the wake up, you commit to a delayed trap.
Ie. full dash before the Trap (right after fully charged water beam). From here you can also get a perfect hit (granted, it is much harder, it's a sequence of just-frames).
The dash is a tell for your opponent to NOT delay wake-up and use armor instead, so maybe putting down a waterport can work as well.

As far as random stuff whiffing, Raiden can get hit with Rains f21 (low) and the SZ-kameo freeze will actually whiff and you can die for it.

 

[SaltShaker]

I tried using Rain (and Sub Zero as the kameo) seriously in ranked as well as a couple of private matches last night. Winning was considerably more difficult than with Reiko (or even Raiden, whom I barely use. LOL.)

What has everyone else's experience been thus far?

Same lol. Was trying someone else besides Sindel so figured I'd give Rain a shot. Not sure he's for me, felt like I was playing Batgirl LOL. Pretty much a deadly mix without much else, but to be fair the mix is probably the best in the game when done right.

That's the setup, correct.
If done perfect, the low and overhead hit on the same frame and will pop-up for full launch, if not perfect they bounce away (which you can hitconfirm with Far geyser (22%) or Fatal blow (45%~)
If your opponent is delaying the wake up, you commit to a delayed trap.
Ie. full dash before the Trap (right after fully charged water beam). From here you can also get a perfect hit (granted, it is much harder, it's a sequence of just-frames).
The dash is a tell for your opponent to NOT delay wake-up and use armor instead, so maybe putting down a waterport can work as well.

As far as random stuff whiffing, Raiden can get hit with Rains f21 (low) and the SZ-kameo freeze will actually whiff and you can die for it.

You can option select the setup to cover all options (delay WU, Armor, etc) and re-loop wrong choices for slightly less damage.

 

[exeeter702]

Dude.. No, people are not confirming their upblock between 2 options, because if they did they would get hit out of their advantage. This is fiction. Made it up.
You upblock, you dial in your punisher combo, nobody is registering "should i jump-punish or stand-punish". Nobody. And not everybody can float-combo off their standing punish either.

Now that's out of the way, by all means, do not incorporate this into your gameplan because if you don't know how it works there's nothing to gain.

edit: while on the subject, someone discovered Rains jip2 CAN NOT be upblocked, so.. that's a good argument against using JiK32:

Rain Technology

Thanks to Ultradavid... again. Finding tech since before mk9

testyourmight.com

Dude, I never said you confirm a jump punish after an up block, what are you talking about? You simply confirm that your up block was successful against the jump in period. You don't have to do a jump punish. I pointed out that as a potential on a hard read, perhaps I did not make that clear.

Up block is not relevant to your OS, and is only distracting from the main point trying to be made here.

Remove up block from the discussion. Canceling into portal hop off jump 3 is 100 percent punishable on reaction to NORMAL block (or up block), you are not addressing that absolute fact. Tell me how you are avoiding the free damage you are giving your opponent by applying the OS?

This isn't 5head and it's not an issue of not understanding how to incorporate it. It simply doesn't have any advantages. I'm not trying to be combative here. I merely want to avoid spreading more false information. It's bad enough people are drooling over all these fake Rain gimmicks on YouTube and twitch. Let's leave that out of here.

 

[Geoffmeister]

You can option select the setup to cover all options (delay WU, Armor, etc) and re-loop wrong choices for slightly less damage.

What you got? 0.0

This isn't 5head and it's not an issue of not understanding how to incorporate it. It simply doesn't have any advantages. I'm not trying to be combative here. I merely want to avoid spreading more false information. It's bad enough people are drooling over all these fake Rain gimmicks on YouTube and twitch. Let's leave that out of here.

Ok, look dude, you're free to disagree on facts, i guess........ either way, rejoice, apparently Rains Jip2 cant be upblocked (lol?) so the discussion is moot.

 

[exeeter702]

What you got? 0.0



Ok, look dude, you're free to disagree on facts, i guess........ either way, rejoice, apparently Rains Jip2 cant be upblocked (lol?) so the discussion is moot.

Please address how you are dealing with getting punished on reaction for canceling into portal hop. That is the only fact that needed refuting. It was never a safe OS.

 

[Geoffmeister]

Please address how you are dealing with getting punished on reaction for canceling into portal hop. That is the only fact that needed refuting. It was never a safe OS.

The whole point was about mitigating damage (and potentially whiffpunishing the punish attempt),

ie.

(i know this video has no upblock, but it can help illustrate what i mean)

because after upblock the opponent is grounded for a ground launch, however, with the portalport you stay in the air -> not everyone can confirm the standing punisher when the opponent is apparently floating.

It is still an OS, and it does cover 2 outcomes, and creates a mindgame.

Neeeeever stated this was "safe". Just presenting a solution to straight up dying due upblock.

 

[exeeter702]

The whole point was about mitigating damage (and potentially whiffpunishing the punish attempt),

ie.

(i know this video has no upblock, but it can help illustrate what i mean)

because after upblock the opponent is grounded for a ground launch, however, with the portalport you stay in the air -> not everyone can confirm the standing punisher when the opponent is apparently floating.

It is still an OS, and it does cover 2 outcomes, and creates a mindgame.

Neeeeever stated this was "safe". Just presenting a solution to straight up dying due upblock.

I see what you are saying, but that very clip demonstrates why the OS is extra problematic. He attempted the ground stand 1 punish on the up block because he saw the screen notification and audio queue for a successful one. Instead of hitting a grounded Rain, his stand 1s gets a float conversion he was not ready for due to unfamiliarity to Rains portal frame data. Had he known how punishable that portal hop was, you would be out a chunk of life. It's an unsafe knowledge check that is punishable on visual reaction, ie a gimmick (my definition of one at least).

In an environment where people know that portal hop has roughly 35 frames of start up, this OS would never have worked. It mitigates damage only insofar as it catches people that don't know Rains move properties off guard.

 

[M2Dave]

Same lol. Was trying someone else besides Sindel so figured I'd give Rain a shot. Not sure he's for me, felt like I was playing Batgirl LOL. Pretty much a deadly mix without much else, but to be fair the mix is probably the best in the game when done right.

I guess that is why Sonic Fox thinks Rain is good.

I know I complain about this character incessantly, but he is fun to play. I just wish the zoning and some of his normal attacks were better.

 

[DarksydeDash]

I tried using Rain (and Sub Zero as the kameo) seriously in ranked as well as a couple of private matches last night. Winning was considerably more difficult than with Reiko (or even Raiden, whom I barely use. LOL.)

What has everyone else's experience been thus far?

Likewise with Scorpion. I played him like Kenshi and used Scorpion to make Geyser an armored launcher. But then if I ran into Raiden or Baraka, it was one mistake from me and I'd lose 50% Rain also has no answer to stop Raiden from charging his projectile across the screen so it feels like you get zoned pretty hard without Sub.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Currently just playing ranked, close to God-rank.
Feels like 90% of MUs are against him lmao, those buttons don't compete with anyone but Sub Zero maybe.

Can't go braindead on zoning (like Reiko/Scorpion) or offense chip (like Baraka/JC/Raiden),
No mixup either.
I'm solely winning on d3 and SZ-kameo set-up unblockable, reading their delays. and in general doing galaxy brain stuff.
But it's hard lol, forced to play anyone's game, on defense non-stop, when he has no movement speed or range. And punishing moves with pushback is sometimes impossible. No whiff punish button either lol, just gotta make do with f2.

Anyway, imo he's a soft mid tier (trash). Until he touches you and may deathcombo you pretty much (S-tier).

Also, I've actually lost games trying to buffer Rain God (d,d,u) into low block and getting a taunt instead. Absolutely despise this as a taunt input. -.-

Rain struggles to punish a lot of moves in this game because of pushback. I feel like you need a specific kameo for specific punishes. Example: Reiko's slide has so much pushback, and even more depending on how far away they do it. Its super frustrating.

 

[bmoee1]

I really like Kano with Rain.

Knives let you combo into whirlpool or dash cancel his beam to combo into f32.

Kano Ball makes geyser safe and creates mindgames.

Eye laser is a great long range punish on a lot of things.

I just so happen to see a Demi god rain who uses Kano. The pressure was constant. May have to look into this.

I tried using Rain (and Sub Zero as the kameo) seriously in ranked as well as a couple of private matches last night. Winning was considerably more difficult than with Reiko (or even Raiden, whom I barely use. LOL.)

What has everyone else's experience been thus far?

im having so much fun with rain. I feel like every game is different and it requires me to utilize different tools to beat my opponent. Id say, once you get comfy, you will start winning. I prefer sub zero kameo for the reset and invincibility. Im only 30-6 in Kl so I haven’t played any good players but he poops on the lower lvls.lol

his offense is nasty I promise you.

 

[G82Boost]

Rain/Cyrax Dirt Potentially

 

[exeeter702]

Rain/Cyrax Dirt Potentially

This is the setup I've been using for a week now. Fairly reliable.