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Do you think there's a final hotfix left with the release of MK Komplete edition?

Altaire

Dojo Trainee
What are you trying to imply? Just because I complain I can't play my character as well online doesn't mean I bitch about his execution whatsoever at tournaments or anything. Yeah, I get salty sometimes when I mess up on execution that costs me a game, but that's the norm. I guess I should say I'm sorry for not being one of those try-hards that play online for the sole purpose of winning?

Yeah, you can beat me online, good for you. I bet I would still rock you and anyone else offline who's beaten me 5-0 online and put money on it.
~*~*~*~tHe CaLlOuT~*~*~*~
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
What are you trying to imply? Just because I complain I can't play my character as well online doesn't mean I bitch about his execution whatsoever at tournaments or anything. Yeah, I get salty sometimes when I mess up on execution that costs me a game, but that's the norm. I guess I should say I'm sorry for not being one of those try-hards that play online for the sole purpose of winning?

Yeah, you can beat me online, good for you. I bet I would still rock you and anyone else offline who's beaten me 5-0 online and put money on it.
I really hope this purposed money match happens.

On the subject of Purposed hotfixes...

I really hope so, there are a few last things that need adjusting, and these are the things I feel massively strong about.

Cyrax Damage after a bomb scaled that means no more 70% one bar combos.
No double netting during cyrax combos, if you start with a net, you cannot net again during the juggle.
Reptile invisible ball glitch removed completely.
Jade - Slight damage buff on juggles.
Jades 34 to chain special moves without wiffing on hit
Jades 12 to combo staff overghead
Jades 122 to be 0 frames on block and possibly overhead on last hit.
Jades Regular boomerangs with better recovery
Jades B1 to be completely mid hitting and unescapable into staff overhead.
Jades :x safe on block and mid hitting - reptile has it.
Jades :en staff grab to have a use, as it is not armoured, and only bags 1% damage after her highest juggles.
Quan Chi to have a string that chain Skeletal Boost
Random Frame advantage fixed on JC's D3.
CSZ better D4.
CSZ back to back parries fixed
CSZ Armour on :en Far Dive.
Rain - Negative Edge reduced.
Jax F41 Connecting on low hit box characters.

That is just a few.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Altaire, Noob cannot interrupt Raiden's 3,3,4 and b+3,1,2 unless there is something you know that I do not know.

But you are right. I am no Noob expert, but what I am is a practictioner of common sense. When Freddy, who

1) has safer and better zoning than Noob does (in this match up at least).
2) has access to better strings than Noob does.
3) deals almost twice as much damage than Noob does.
4) has a safe and un-fuzzy-guardable 50/50 mix up that Noob lacks.

STILL loses 6:4 to Raiden, no one can convince me that Noob only loses 6:4 too. Where are Noob's tools that dictate the contrary? 9o% of what Noob does in the match up Freddy does better as a character overall.

REO, your insecurities have started to get the best of you. I care about online as much as you do. However, I will money match you at any tournament where I am present, and we will also do Midwest vs VSM one day.
 

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
CAGE NEEDS AN AIR FIRE BALL AND ARMOR ON EX FLIP KICK
Everyone else needs to be nerfed, it makes the game fair.
 

GodsLonelyman

Kombatant
I say again, Flawedzilla placed 5th at SCR with Noob, and he beat a Kabal player cleanly in the process. In fact, Flawed didn't even use any other characters in the tournament. Apparently, he didn't need an armor move to get the job done.
There is the possibility that the Kabal player didn't know the Noob matchup, although thats pretty far fetched. Kabal can outzone and keep Noob saibot pressured and fearful of throwing projectiles or attempting offense from anywhere in the screen. Maybe he got outplayed, regardless, it doesn't change the fact that the Noob vs. Kabal matchup is nearly unwinnable. 7-3 for sure. Kabal has tool to counter anything you do.

Noob is under used IMO. Just like Jade, Sindel and a lot of other chars. And I don't think he needs an armored move that desperately... If you let the opponent in using Saibot, then you're doing something wrong.
Have you seen Noobs frame data? Have you seen how bad the recovery is on his projectiles? You can avoid his mediocre zoning easily. Take reptile for example, he's somewhere around midscreen or further, you throw a tackle, he anticipates and jumps, he dashes in and punishes you or whiffs elbow dash and begins pressure. It's easier than you think to get in on Noob.



can track their opponent's attempted jump in with a Teleport, his Upshadow prevents cross overs even on wake-up.
His teleport is highly unreliable. I've been punched out of that teleport countless times. Characters with a low crouching hitbox can duck it and uppercut him out of it, thats how garbage it is. You CAN cross him up on wakeup, his upshadow doesn't have the full hitbox is did before.
 

Altaire

Dojo Trainee
Altaire, Noob cannot interrupt Raiden's 3,3,4 and b+3,1,2 unless there is something you know that I do not know.

But you are right. I am no Noob expert, but what I am is a practictioner of common sense. When Freddy, who

1) has safer and better zoning than Noob does (in this match up at least).
2) has access to better strings than Noob does.
3) deals almost twice as much damage than Noob does.
4) has a safe and un-fuzzy-guardable 50/50 mix up that Noob lacks.

STILL loses 6:4 to Raiden, no one can convince me that Noob only loses 6:4 too. Where are Noob's tools that dictate the contrary? 9o% of what Noob does in the match up Freddy does better as a character overall.

REO, your insecurities have started to get the best of you. I care about online as much as you do. However, I will money match you at any tournament where I am present, and we will also do Midwest vs VSM one day.
I realize Noob has nothing that can interrupt Raiden's strings, I was just making a general assessment about his offense being mediocre apart from good footsies. Even then, 33 4 is just... Not a great string, due to the fact that it hits high, has very little reach and gets blown up on whiff. About the only time it's useful is in the corner or on a guaranteed punish (since it does give him higher combo damage than F2 4 or B3 1 2). B3 1 2 isn't really a throw-it-out-there normal either, because B3 1 and B3 1 2 are unsafe as fuck on whiff, and well... You can't really hit confirm off just B3. His only go-to combo starter is F2 4. B3 1 2 is just good for whiff punishes and 1 2 1 2/1 2 1 should be used sparingly. Other than that, he has an alright D1, an alright D3 and while his D4 gives him a lot of hit advantage, it's too slow to be used liberally.

Like I said, Raiden's offensive ability is far from what makes him so great. If Noob just tries going punch for punch with him, it's still an unfavorable matchup, but it's definitely better than slinging projectiles so he can teleport and punish for full combos while you're still in recovery.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
Lead Moderator
...Where is the logic in that? I spend time working on my guide and "BM-riddled posts" (whatever the hell BM is) because I like contributing to the community, making my mark and seeing the game evolve. Sharing and trading ideas is how we facilitate that. All I said is that I don't care if people on the internet hate me, because... Oh well, it's the internet. If I come into conflict with anyone on the internet I'm more personally acquainted with, then it's a bigger issue, but most of you are just names with vaguely defined personalities. The instant I close my laptop, you cease to exist. I'm simply looking at it subjectively: If you have no bearing on my social setting, even my extended social setting, I couldn't care less if you hate me. Hell, YOU can hate me if you like; I'll just shrug and move on with my life, because while I mean no disrespect, I just don't care about your opinion of me. It's nothing against you, it's just that I don't know you, other than vaguely recognizing your name from somewhere on the boards.

As far as I'm concerned, someone has to have the balls to tell it like it is. When I see someone post a patch suggestion that could be potentially detrimental, all it makes me think is "Oh, great, Jax all over again". No, I'm not one of those people who thinks Jax is SSSSS+ tier, but I do think he got a few buffs too many for no reason other than the community begged for it. Tyrant didn't ask for them. CD Jr didn't ask for them. Who did? Why, the Jax boards, of course.
Actually, I'll tell it like it needs to be said. Altaire, you are an asshole, and your condescending tones are wearing very thin around here. Yes, you are very very smart and very knowledgeable but what the fuck makes you think you can treat others and talk to others like you do? You have big time anger issues and i dont even know what goes on in your real life, but i cant imagine its anything i'd want to experience. You come across as a miserable bastard and Im tired of it, LOTS of others who complain to me are tired of it. Its not funny and there is no other excuse than that your just a jerk. SO CHILL OUT. Learn respect and learn how to deal with other people opinions and sometimes, other peoples ignorance. If i were you, I'd start caring more about others opinions as in respect for the community we at TYM are trying to continue to build. You are apart of the glue that holds us all together, but so are all the others. So respect it.

thank you.
 

Theme

Noob
...Where is the logic in that? I spend time working on my guide and "BM-riddled posts" (whatever the hell BM is) because I like contributing to the community, making my mark and seeing the game evolve. Sharing and trading ideas is how we facilitate that. All I said is that I don't care if people on the internet hate me, because... Oh well, it's the internet. If I come into conflict with anyone on the internet I'm more personally acquainted with, then it's a bigger issue, but most of you are just names with vaguely defined personalities. The instant I close my laptop, you cease to exist. I'm simply looking at it subjectively: If you have no bearing on my social setting, even my extended social setting, I couldn't care less if you hate me. Hell, YOU can hate me if you like; I'll just shrug and move on with my life, because while I mean no disrespect, I just don't care about your opinion of me. It's nothing against you, it's just that I don't know you, other than vaguely recognizing your name from somewhere on the boards.

As far as I'm concerned, someone has to have the balls to tell it like it is. When I see someone post a patch suggestion that could be potentially detrimental, all it makes me think is "Oh, great, Jax all over again". No, I'm not one of those people who thinks Jax is SSSSS+ tier, but I do think he got a few buffs too many for no reason other than the community begged for it. Tyrant didn't ask for them. CD Jr didn't ask for them. Who did? Why, the Jax boards, of course.
Of course, thats how people should see the internet. It is the internet and your right, after closing my laptop, none of you exist... but heres the thing:

You dont have to talk down to people even if they are wrong. I dont care what you think of the internet, because odds are, I think the same way, but that doesnt excuse the way you treat people online. You have status within the MK community, and when you abuse that status, people wont like you for it. Sure, you dont care, but others do. The way you talk is aggravating and insulting. IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE LIKE THAT. What you obviously dont understand is your making the PRO-SCENE of MK look ignorant and arrogant, and of course, childish. Now dont tell me you dont care about that, because after reading all these replies to people and making these guides, you do give a fuck.

When you see people make idiotic posts, simply say why its wrong, what is right and so on. You dont have to say shit in a condescending tone nor insult them, it will just create more bad blood. The way you approach these types of situation is very aggressive and immature. Quit attacking people and maybe you might just be taken more seriously. I dont understand why you havent been warned or suspended yet by a moderator here. Just because you are a well known and good player doesnt excuse the way you treat people here at this community. Its here for fun and to help people learn and evolve with the game, we dont need another god damn know-it-all asshole.

BM- Bad mannered / And yes, I do play SC2, we should play against each other some time Phil, although I havent touched that in while.
 

REO

Undead
Altaire, Noob cannot interrupt Raiden's 3,3,4 and b+3,1,2 unless there is something you know that I do not know.

But you are right. I am no Noob expert, but what I am is a practictioner of common sense. When Freddy, who

1) has safer and better zoning than Noob does (in this match up at least).
2) has access to better strings than Noob does.
3) deals almost twice as much damage than Noob does.
4) has a safe and un-fuzzy-guardable 50/50 mix up that Noob lacks.

STILL loses 6:4 to Raiden, no one can convince me that Noob only loses 6:4 too. Where are Noob's tools that dictate the contrary? 9o% of what Noob does in the match up Freddy does better as a character overall.

REO, your insecurities have started to get the best of you. I care about online as much as you do. However, I will money match you at any tournament where I am present, and we will also do Midwest vs VSM one day.
You're on, PAB.

And mid-west vs NY? LOL, is OH that bad that you guys need players such as 16bit, Slips, and co just to stand a chance? You have the EVO champ, what's wrong?
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Actually, I'll tell it like it needs to be said. Altaire, you are an asshole, and your condescending tones are wearing very thin around here. Yes, you are very very smart and very knowledgeable but what the fuck makes you think you can treat others and talk to others like you do? You have big time anger issues and i dont even know what goes on in your real life, but i cant imagine its anything i'd want to experience. You come across as a miserable bastard and Im tired of it, LOTS of others who complain to me are tired of it. Its not funny and there is no other excuse than that your just a jerk. SO CHILL OUT. Learn respect and learn how to deal with other people opinions and sometimes, other peoples ignorance. If i were you, I'd start caring more about others opinions as in respect for the community we at TYM are trying to continue to build. You are apart of the glue that holds us all together, but so is all the others. So respect it.

thank you.
This is what I have been saying since the Noob contribution thread^^^. Thank you
 

R00KI30FTH3Y3AR

(S)teel (V)alley (K)ombat
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, all of this patch talk is going to kill the game. Anything that makes it distinct or unique is going to get patched out to the point where the game itself just stagnates drastically. We're running the risk of getting to the point where players can only do the same old BNB combos with no kind of variation whatsoever, and for the brave few that do find something different, scaling or altered properties of the characters themselves with see underwhelming damange for twice the work. Perfect example is what happened to Sub Zero. He's about all risk and no reward, and to what effect?
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I realize Noob has nothing that can interrupt Raiden's strings, I was just making a general assessment about his offense being mediocre apart from good footsies. Even then, 33 4 is just... Not a great string, due to the fact that it hits high, has very little reach and gets blown up on whiff. About the only time it's useful is in the corner or on a guaranteed punish (since it does give him higher combo damage than F2 4 or B3 1 2). B3 1 2 isn't really a throw-it-out-there normal either, because B3 1 and B3 1 2 are unsafe as fuck on whiff, and well... You can't really hit confirm off just B3. His only go-to combo starter is F2 4. B3 1 2 is just good for whiff punishes and 1 2 1 2/1 2 1 should be used sparingly. Other than that, he has an alright D1, an alright D3 and while his D4 gives him a lot of hit advantage, it's too slow to be used liberally.

Like I said, Raiden's offensive ability is far from what makes him so great. If Noob just tries going punch for punch with him, it's still a unfavorable matchup, but it's definitely better than slinging projectiles so he can teleport and punish for full combos while you're still in recovery.
Your assessment on Raiden is dead accurate... vs a character like Kabal or Reptile. It is, however, irrelevant vs Noob because of the character's one dimensional gameplay and lack of tools. If you can overcome Noob's zoning, there is not much else to worry about. His damage output is by far the worst in the game. His strings are average. His footsies are average. His pokes are average. And the lack of armor and a big crouching hitbox do not help. So, for instance, it makes no difference whether Raiden's b+3 and b+3,1 are very unsafe on whiff. What is Noob going to do? Punish them with a 15% combo?

A full screen 50/50 mix up looks great on paper until you look at the entire character. Again, I am not sure why any tournament player would choose him over Kabal, Kenshi, Kitana, and Freddy.
 

Killphil

A prop on the stage of life.
Ok guys lets take a breather and remember what we're supposed to be discussing. As far as this hotfix is concerned, I thought the changes were already listed somewhere? Here's an example. Wasn't reptile's dash on block supposed to be changed to -21 but it remains -15? Isn't this hotfix to address such issues? I don't see any drastic changes coming. If the game wasn't so damn inconsistent I'd say leave the characters where they lie. Why nerf the top characters? So another character or two moves in to replace them? Since every character isn't the same, there is ALWAYS going to be the one(or five) characters that are just better overall.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
What ever else is going on in this thread, womt steer me off the fact that jade needs fixed on allot of things.

She is on paper one of the best characters, but because she lacks little things in her set up, she struggles.

If she had her 122 safe on block with push back, or 0 frames, last hit over head, and also had 12b4, which would be sweep, or could chain staff overhead from 12 as a punisher, she would be so much better. Just that little adjustment.

Staff grab an overhead. :en staff grab gives jade life back. Or anything, because the :en staff grab is useless, and jade needs tools, she needs everything she has to be at a disposal.

There is a million things on top of this that she needs.

I hate to see a potentially lethal character go to waste.