Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Mandolore1123]

Welcome to many moons ago, haha.


Burst has a gap after d1, unlike Storm Cell which is obviously hella unsafe, unless you meant after his regular block strings?
Also, Raijin actually slightly out damages TW outside of KB combos which TW is better at.

That said, I agree with what you're trying to say. I've heard several pros that main Raiden have all moved back to TW though I'm not entirely sure as to why.
My best guess at the moment is perhaps the utility given from teleport, and convenience of a launcher like Storm Cell that doesn't require upkeep is perhaps more attractive at the moment. Could just be a play style preference thing as both variations clearly have their strengths and weaknessses.

As much as I love teleporting, I prefer the safety and defense afforded by Quick Charge. Being the only character in the game (so far) that has a mechanic to reduce chip damage that also stacks with the game's universal chip mitigation is actually insane just by itself, which is before we even look at it also having the fastest reversal in the game with an absurd effective range. Honestly, if it didn't already enhance two other equipped moves I would think Quick Charge, out of any ability in the game, should be 2-slots.

If I had my way I would make Spark Port 1-slot and shove Rolling Thunder into TW, updated to follow the opponent on amp or otherwise not move at all. Then I think TW would feel more complete.

I actually forgot about that yeah. Pretty much the only gimmick Raijin has is doing poke~DF2, which has a huge that that ppl can and should be interrupting. Though spacing a D4 might be enough to make a trade/beat poke interrupts iirc.
Also just to clarify, Fox has pretty much never touched TW from my understanding. He was always only interested in Raijin. Dalphanate and PI though have indeed moved back to TW.

 

[MKF30]

the preferred gameplan is to not use that variant and go to Raijin

Pretty much. Can you imagine if they allowed kustom variations? That would be fun.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Pretty much. Can you imagine if they allowed kustom variations? That would be fun.

While it would be nice to have kustoms, it unfortunately wouldn't make a difference for Raiden without his specials getting a hard look at.

 

[Black Chapters]

While it would be nice to have kustoms, it unfortunately wouldn't make a difference for Raiden without his specials getting a hard look at.

yup

most of them are ass

 

[MKF30]

While it would be nice to have kustoms, it unfortunately wouldn't make a difference for Raiden without his specials getting a hard look at.

While that may be true, I would wager he'd still be better than any of his current variations in this particular case. He couldn't be any worse off than his 3rd variation.

yup

most of them are ass

lol. Yeah, I mean a buff here, there could help for sure. Was thinking, you know it would be interesting if say the 3 lowest characters in the game only, had kustoms allowed by players to make a variation themselves that they could use. I'm sure some would say this would make it broken, but just for the lowest characters in the game, say in Raiden's case I think it would make things more interesting honestly.

 

[Marinjuana]

While it would be nice to have kustoms, it unfortunately wouldn't make a difference for Raiden without his specials getting a hard look at.

It would encourage them to make the Superman Punch and the floating Raiden special better!

I will say that I think Raiden has three well conceived variations. About as interesting of variety as you'll find on any character with their variations. He just might need some universal polish to his kit.

 

[MKF30]

It would encourage them to make the Superman Punch and the floating Raiden special better!

I will say that I think Raiden has three well conceived variations. About as interesting of variety as you'll find on any character with their variations. He just might need some universal polish to his kit.

Superman punch? You talking about F2?

 

[Marinjuana]

Superman punch? You talking about F2?

Nah, he has this one special move in kustoms that replaces Superman and it's this charged up aerial "Superman punch". But it's unsafe and has a gimmicky KB so it seems like ass

 

[Trustful_Whale]

It would encourage them to make the Superman Punch and the floating Raiden special better!

I will say that I think Raiden has three well conceived variations. About as interesting of variety as you'll find on any character with their variations. He just might need some universal polish to his kit.

I agree that it would motivate them to rebalance those moves.

I disagree that his 3rd variation is well conceived at all; I keep saying it but putting two abilities together that directly conflict with each other is an automatic fail, and then as a bonus we also lose our best move. It needs a lot of work.

Superman punch? You talking about F2?

It's a move called Super Bolt, replaces fly with a flying punch move that does almost the exact same thing as regular fly only it can't be used in the air and is just as unsafe on block so apart from a slight oki reversal there's no purpose to taking this when we already get a better move for free.
It needs big changes.

 

[MKF30]

Yeah once it wasnt f2 I figured it was a custom move. I haven't touched the customs in months once they announced that we cant use them competitively.

Nah, he has this one special move in kustoms that replaces Superman and it's this charged up aerial "Superman punch". But it's unsafe and has a gimmicky KB so it seems like ass

Oh ok lol was going to be my next question. If it was a custom move. Makes sense. So many custom.moves in this game either suck or are good but not in a tourney variation.

 

[SparkySanders]

Man two weeks into launch I messed around with super bolt with a custom variation and I couldn’t even understand why they even made such a move.. never mind with a super gimmicky kb, and a brutal.

major wasted potential across the board with any custom moves for raiden

 

[Black Chapters]

If I were to I'd do this.


Raijin: Jo Staff (2) and Quick Charge

Jo Push is deleted and now Electric Current and Burst are combined into a 2 slot ability called Jo Staff. Electric Current is now Raiden simply shooting lightning from his hands that hits low (similar to his U3), Raiden has added staff based normals, B2 is now an overhead staff move, B3 1 now starts with a low staff attack into a big boot, B4 is a low staff sweep and F2 is a staff thrust. Quick Charge remains the same only now once fully charged it adds damage to all punch attacks and lightning attacks. Electric Burst now has a meter burn that creates a dome similar to Vicinity Blast's MB attack from MKX.

Truth and Light: Lightning Rod (2) and Lightning Storm

Lightning Rod is now combined with Rolling Thunder as a 2 slot, placing the rod will cause it to chip damage the opponent when near it, MB will create a bigger dome and doubles the damage. Lightning Storm is now altered to just inklude air attacks, bf1 does the straight bolt, db2 does the diagonal bolt, and db3 does the overhead stomp, bf 1 MB causes the multi-hit lightning attack. Each move can be done at any pint in the air.

Thunder Wave: Storm Cell, Sparkport (2)

Storm Cell's command is db1, allowing Summon Lighting back in. Sparkport no longer causes auto corrects and Storm Cell can be made safe with meter. Sparkport now has DUD (stationary teleport) DUB (teleport to full screen on the same side), DUF (teleport full screen to the other side), and DD, DDB and DDF (teleport into the air, DD always keeps you on the same side and you appear klose, DDB puts you at full screen on the same side, DDF puts you klose on the other side)

Thunder Fly KB is reverted back to normal, works on MB in the air.
Throw KB now activated Triggers if opponent failed throw escape during previous throw.
New KB for b2 is now on a punish and causes damage overtime.
Summon Lightning can KB if Quick Charge is activated.
MB Air Stomp can KB in Truth and Light if the opponent is ducking, causes a pop up.
MB Lightning Strike can KB if the Rod is also out in Truth and Light.
Thunder Wave now has a Storm Cell KB if you counter with a MB'd Storm Cell, meaning you start the combo with Storm Cell.

 

[Mandolore1123]

If I were to I'd do this.


Raijin: Jo Staff (2) and Quick Charge

Jo Push is deleted and now Electric Current and Burst are combined into a 2 slot ability called Jo Staff. Electric Current is now Raiden simply shooting lightning from his hands that hits low (similar to his U3), Raiden has added staff based normals, B2 is now an overhead staff move, B3 1 now starts with a low staff attack into a big boot, B4 is a low staff sweep and F2 is a staff thrust. Quick Charge remains the same only now once fully charged it adds damage to all punch attacks and lightning attacks. Electric Burst now has a meter burn that creates a dome similar to Vicinity Blast's MB attack from MKX.

Truth and Light: Lightning Rod (2) and Lightning Storm

Lightning Rod is now combined with Rolling Thunder as a 2 slot, placing the rod will cause it to chip damage the opponent when near it, MB will create a bigger dome and doubles the damage. Lightning Storm is now altered to just inklude air attacks, bf1 does the straight bolt, db2 does the diagonal bolt, and db3 does the overhead stomp, bf 1 MB causes the multi-hit lightning attack. Each move can be done at any pint in the air.

Thunder Wave: Storm Cell, Sparkport (2)

Storm Cell's command is db1, allowing Summon Lighting back in. Sparkport no longer causes auto corrects and Storm Cell can be made safe with meter. Sparkport now has DUD (stationary teleport) DUB (teleport to full screen on the same side), DUF (teleport full screen to the other side), and DD, DDB and DDF (teleport into the air, DD always keeps you on the same side and you appear klose, DDB puts you at full screen on the same side, DDF puts you klose on the other side)

121 KB does damage overtime, based damage is lowered.
Thunder Fly KB is converted back to normal, works on MB in the air.
Throw KB now activated after 3 are hit.
New KB for b2 is now on a punish in Raijin only.
Summon Lightning can KB if Quick Charge is fully loaded in Raijin.
MB Air Stomp can KB in Truth and Light after a five hit kombo, causes a pop up.
MB Lightning Strike can KB if the Rod is also out in Truth and Light.
Thunder Wave now has a Storm Cell KB if you counter with a MB'd Storm Cell




Super Bolt is dick, the only appeal is its a Superman Punch but it functions so badly, delete it.

So you’ve made TW the only variation worth playing again. I don’t get why people like being so obsessed with storm cell’s safety like it’s the holy grail of solving Raiden’s problems while at the same time so many people complain that Outtake‘s poke~rising star game is a problem. Storm cell does NOT need to be safe. It already jails from pokes and you’re even buffing Raiden’s teleport to allow him to teleport in the air when he already has the most options out of teleport in the entire cast of MK11 and uses the least resources.

I don’t really understand your changes to Raijin. Giving him staff based normals just makes him get more range to whiff punish (which he already does well). He’s still safe on everything but you also remove his launcher and give DF2 an AMP with increased range and does what exactly? DF2 is slow so without frame adjustments I don’t see the effectiveness of having an amplified attack that hits behind raiden, especially since you can’t jump over the attack if you special cancel it from pokes and strings.

I don’t get why you’re choosing to make 121KB do DOT when it’s perfectly fine by itself. (I honestly think DOT is a nerf to the move.)

Your throw KB change would also probably need to be done across the board to all characters. Not sure if this is a good idea giving characters this kind of KB in a game where strike/throw is the meta mix-up and there is 0 chance you getting rid of a throw KB once someone has loaded one in. Unless you’re planning on giving Raiden the most powerful throw KB in the game.

Honestly I don’t get the reason as to why you’re making any of the changes in this post. Would you care to explain them to us?

 

[kabelfritz]

If I were to I'd do this.


Raijin: Jo Staff (2) and Quick Charge

Jo Push is deleted and now Electric Current and Burst are combined into a 2 slot ability called Jo Staff. Electric Current is now Raiden simply shooting lightning from his hands that hits low (similar to his U3), Raiden has added staff based normals, B2 is now an overhead staff move, B3 1 now starts with a low staff attack into a big boot, B4 is a low staff sweep and F2 is a staff thrust. Quick Charge remains the same only now once fully charged it adds damage to all punch attacks and lightning attacks. Electric Burst now has a meter burn that creates a dome similar to Vicinity Blast's MB attack from MKX.

maybe cool ideas for mk12 but i like raijin as is.

 

[Mandolore1123]

maybe cool ideas for mk12 but i like raijin as is.

To be honest I like the idea for more staff normals, just not for Raijin.

 

[Nevan_PTF]

Imho Raijin is fine, I would just give him more KB options.

You have characters like Jacqui that can delete you with two KBs in one combo without any special requirements and Raiden(Raijin) just has 121 and BF3(AMP).

 

[Mandolore1123]

Imho Raijin is fine, I would just give him more KB options.

You have characters like Jacqui that can delete you with two KBs in one combo without any special requirements and Raiden(Raijin) just has 121 and BF3(AMP).

I think fly KB needs a rework but it does have niche uses (flying over low projectiles/punishing Kotal’s sunlight from full screen), so I would want the rework to not compromise this function.
I’m also a bit sceptical about giving more KBs to Raijin, if only because we might lose QC more often because of it. We already do good damage and have great pressure as is, Raijin doesn’t have much KB combo potential anyways because the launcher is locked behind QC.

 

[Nevan_PTF]

Humm I can see your point and it makes sense. I just would like some extra seasoning tho, like SZ and Scorpion, having a KB behind a certain number of hits on a combo.

Other than that I really like Raijin.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Humm I can see your point and it makes sense. I just would like some extra seasoning tho, like SZ and Scorpion, having a KB behind a certain number of hits on a combo.

Other than that I really like Raijin.

At this point, any buff to Raiden's base kit = buff to Raijin. I think certain strings in his base kit need to be touched on (B14, possibly s2, and most importantly hit-box fixes on F1 and s3). Otherwise I don't think Raiden really needs too much.
TW might need some changes to teleport or fly cancels since the major problem is still safety but I'm not sure how to do so.
TL imo needs a major rework, especially lightning rod because the duration is just too short

 

[Nevan_PTF]

TL seemed fun, but once you start playing with it...yack lol

 

[Mandolore1123]

So it seems that the jump kick nerf hit TW's harder than I thought.
F4~DB2 AMP, JI2, F2, 12~fatal blow (mid screen) does 467 but
F4~DB2 AMP, JI3, 243~fatal blow only does 459 in the corner
@ Marlow might have to update the combo thread with the new numbers

 

[kabelfritz]

At this point, any buff to Raiden's base kit = buff to Raijin. I think certain strings in his base kit need to be touched on (B14, possibly s2, and most importantly hit-box fixes on F1 and s3). Otherwise I don't think Raiden really needs too much.
TW might need some changes to teleport or fly cancels since the major problem is still safety but I'm not sure how to do so.
TL imo needs a major rework, especially lightning rod because the duration is just too short

truth and light definitely needs jo push amp fixed, so that raiden always reappears in hit distance. i think what also would help this variation a lot was if you could end juggles with lightning rod. imagine cancelling f4 into lightning rod mid distance as ender, the opponent would get the last hitstun from the LR placing itself, so that you have it out and can start zoning right away.

 

[Marlow]

At this point, any buff to Raiden's base kit = buff to Raijin. I think certain strings in his base kit need to be touched on (B14, possibly s2, and most importantly hit-box fixes on F1 and s3). Otherwise I don't think Raiden really needs too much.
TW might need some changes to teleport or fly cancels since the major problem is still safety but I'm not sure how to do so.
TL imo needs a major rework, especially lightning rod because the duration is just too short

I think making B12 -6 or -7 would be the simplest fix. I know it's not the most elegant, but it gives TW just a bit more safety and would reward hit confirming. It would benefit both TW and TL since they both lack the safety that Raijin has. Raijin already has some safety from QC and Burst, so I don't think it would be too much of a Buff to him. Otherwise I think you have the right idea, if there was some way to make teleport cancels or fly cancels safer that could do it.

For T&L I'd like to see Jo Push be a 1 slot move, add in Super Bolt, and rework some of the properties of Lightening Rod (duration at the very least). That way he has a launcher, an ender, and a unique tool to possible create some pressure.

 

[Marlow]

Marlow might have to update the combo thread with the new numbers

I may or may not have time to do that. In the meantime I'll put up a disclaimer that damage amounts may or may not have changed.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I may or may not have time to do that. In the meantime I'll put up a disclaimer that damage amounts may or may not have changed.

I can check the main ones and post them in the combo thread for you and when you get the time just copy them over?