Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Nevan_PTF]

LOL Same, having to fight without that "pressure" feels nice ahah

Raiden is really something, some match ups are an uphill battle or types of players, even.

I fought so many Scorpion and Sub-Zero that I lost count.

 

[MKF30]

LOL Same, having to fight without that "pressure" feels nice ahah

Raiden is really something, some match ups are an uphill battle or types of players, even.

I fought so many Scorpion and Sub-Zero that I lost count.

I concur lol. Out of those two I think I'd rather face subby lol. Not that hes a walk in the park but I would take sub over scorp as a raiden player.

 

[xRantex]

I reached Demi God too with thunder wave

 

[Nevan_PTF]

I concur lol. Out of those two I think I'd rather face subby lol. Not that hes a walk in the park but I would take sub over scorp as a raiden player.

Same, I would pick Sub-Zero to play against, they are more nutty in general, with yolo slides and F2,4. The only good Sub-Zero I play against is Braindead, so he made it easier for to play vs other Subs.

Scorpion above a certain rank aren't bad and mixup their strings, I remember playing against a relentless Scorpion. No yolo TPs, smart spears and great staggers. Didn't adapt in time and lost the set.

I reached Demi God too with thunder wave

Woah! Damn! Congrats man! I can't see myself not playing Raijin, but its good to see TW getting work done.

 

[xRantex]

Yeah I stuck with it since day 1. But definitely not easy lol

 

[Nevan_PTF]

Deffo it ain't! Kudos for the TW mains out here

 

[MKF30]

I reached Demi God too with thunder wave

Nice job, same here! On both Switch and Xbox, man it's hard to do it twice back to back seasons. I hope there's no costumes or gear I want next season. But with my luck they'll prob put Jade's outfit in DG lol....

Same, I would pick Sub-Zero to play against, they are more nutty in general, with yolo slides and F2,4. The only good Sub-Zero I play against is Braindead, so he made it easier for to play vs other Subs.

Scorpion above a certain rank aren't bad and mixup their strings, I remember playing against a relentless Scorpion. No yolo TPs, smart spears and great staggers. Didn't adapt in time and lost the set.



Woah! Damn! Congrats man! I can't see myself not playing Raijin, but its good to see TW getting work done.

Yes definitely not easy! I started out on TW, sticking with it. Raiden to me just isn't Raiden without his teleport. Yeah the slides you have to be ready for, though if they use his second variation no slide but he has super ice ball and shoulder. Scorpion players are just annoying with his staggers, mix ups and you can't really jump much with his teleport. Easier to move around vs Sub like you said spears too, staggers. Though Sub also has great mix ups. I think patience is key to beating both with Raiden.

 

[kabelfritz]

wow i just found out what they did to electric burst with quick charge up ... looks like raijin is finally up there in the dumb tier

 

[MKF30]

Guess we'll have to see if he actually wins any tourneys in the future. Think so far I've gotten about ehhh 2 Raijin's in KL past 3 seasons Imagine if he had the teleport in Raijin THEN you're talking real dumb tier lol. I still enjoy my TW, mobility>>>gimmicks.

 

[Arqwart]

Guess we'll have to see if he actually wins any tourneys in the future. Think so far I've gotten about ehhh 2 Raijin's in KL past 3 seasons Imagine if he had the teleport in Raijin THEN you're talking real dumb tier lol. I still enjoy my TW, mobility>>>gimmicks.

How is having a gapless, always-safe special and the ability to punish strings you block a gimmick? Not to mention the variation has a popup so it does just the same damage as TW.

 

[MKF30]

How is having a gapless, always-safe special and the ability to punish strings you block a gimmick? Not to mention the variation has a popup so it does just the same damage as TW.

I'm referring to his buff moves that make him viable but regarding your question, referring to the first part especially. Gapless, always safe special? lol you just answered your own question. Because in his other 2 he has none of that and thus takes more skill to win. There are no gimmicks. I'm not saying it's bad, you're acting as if I said it's bad. Just saying a lot of people ride on Raijin but I would take his TW anyday over it. The main reason? Raijin gets zoned out BAD, unlike TW which can't be zoned out. I don't mind him having pop ups but he should have had that in the first place. Look at how many other characters have launchers in strings or normals? But yeah, not saying Rajin is bad I just prefer his TW overall and his third well...you need to say a prayer for that to work lol. I'm not telling you that Raijin sucks or not to use it, just saying it's not without it's flaws.

 

[SparkySanders]

Yeah f4 burst the living shit out of mf’s with raijin lol
If anything TW has the gimmicks with amp tp, I’ve seen countless dudes get blown up for those shenanigans (including myself)

 

[Arqwart]

I'm referring to his buff moves that make him viable but regarding your question, referring to the first part especially. Gapless, always safe special? lol you just answered your own question. Because in his other 2 he has none of that and thus takes more skill to win. There are no gimmicks. I'm not saying it's bad, you're acting as if I said it's bad. Just saying a lot of people ride on Raijin but I would take his TW anyday over it. The main reason? Raijin gets zoned out BAD, unlike TW which can't be zoned out. I don't mind him having pop ups but he should have had that in the first place. Look at how many other characters have launchers in strings or normals? But yeah, not saying Rajin is bad I just prefer his TW overall and his third well...you need to say a prayer for that to work lol. I'm not telling you that Raijin sucks or not to use it, just saying it's not without it's flaws.

And I at no point said anything about good/bad. I'm just wondering what your definition of a gimmick is because a safe block special is not a gimmick to me. A gimmick is something that has nothing to do with the player using the gimmick. It's something that's generally unsafe or "fake" and only really works a couple times due to the opponent's lack of knowledge. A safe block special doesn't fit this bill as it's inherently consistent.

 

[MKF30]

TW definitely has no gimmicks, it could use some though lol

And I at no point said anything about good/bad. I'm just wondering what your definition of a gimmick is because a safe block special is not a gimmick to me. A gimmick is something that has nothing to do with the player using the gimmick. It's something that's generally unsafe or "fake" and only really works a couple times due to the opponent's lack of knowledge. A safe block special doesn't fit this bill as it's inherently consistent.

Gimmick is a relative term. To me it has gimmicks only when you compare them to his other 2 variations such as moves to make moves safe when he could have safe moves to begin with like several other characters. It fits in regard to what I'm speaking of. I'm not saying he doesnt need or anything of course i mean hes low tier after. If people start to believe its dumb as in op element then it comes off as gimmicky. A gimmick can be anything that the character has to abuse, exploit or may be questionable to give them an edge. Some are bigger than others obviously.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Gimmick is a relative term. To me it has gimmicks only when you compare them to his other 2 variations such as moves to make moves safe when he could have safe moves to begin with like several other characters. It fits in regard to what I'm speaking of. I'm not saying he doesnt need or anything of course i mean hes low tier after. If people start to believe its dumb as in op element then it comes off as gimmicky. A gimmick can be anything that the character has to abuse, exploit or may be questionable to give them an edge. Some are bigger than others obviously.

This is not what a gimmick means. There is a clear definition of what a gimmick actually is.
Gimmick = “something that is not serious or of real value that is used to attract people's attention or interest temporarily, especially to make them buy something”

In fighting games. It means something that is working when it shouldn’t, usually in the context of a mixup. There is a guaranteed way to get out of the mix-up, but the reason people get hit is due to the opponent’s ignorance and lack of MU knowledge. Examples include doing Kotal’s unblockable after any string on block, or doing unblockable in any situation outside of specific set-ups. Raijin has no gimmicks. The only way to interrupt and potentially punish DF2 on block is to flawless block the gap and only in select strings.

Here’s a video explaining what gimmicks ACTUALLY mean:

Don’t use your own made-up and wrong definitions of certain terms in discussion.

 

[MKF30]

This is not what a gimmick means. There is a clear definition of what a gimmick actually is.
Gimmick = “something that is not serious or of real value that is used to attract people's attention or interest temporarily, especially to make them buy something”

In fighting games. It means something that is working when it shouldn’t, usually in the context of a mixup. There is a guaranteed way to get out of the mix-up, but the reason people get hit is due to the opponent’s ignorance and lack of MU knowledge. Examples include doing Kotal’s unblockable after any string on block, or doing unblockable in any situation outside of specific set-ups. Raijin has no gimmicks. The only way to interrupt and potentially punish DF2 on block is to flawless block the gap and only in select strings.

Here’s a video explaining what gimmicks ACTUALLY mean:

Don’t use your own made-up and wrong definitions of certain terms in discussion.

Incorrect. The definition of the word gimmick.



gimmick
noun
https://www.merriam-webster.com/login

gim·mick | \ ˈgi-mik \
Definition of gimmick
(Entry 1 of 2)
1a: a mechanical device for secretly and dishonestly controlling gambling apparatus
b: an ingenious or novel mechanical device : GADGET
2a: an important feature that is not immediately apparent : CATCH… few readers would look for a gimmick in an advertisement featuring airline schedules, but few would fail to look for the fine print in an ad announcing New Low-Price Fares.— Robert L. Heilbroner
b: an ingenious and usually new scheme or angleEven in professional careers, mere competence and craftsmanship is no substitute for a gimmick.— James Poniewozik
c: a trick or device used to attract business or attentiona marketing gimmick
gimmick
verb
gimmicked; gimmicking; gimmicks
Definition of gimmick (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb
1: to alter or influence by means of a gimmick
2: to provide with a gimmick —often used with up

a gimmick can mean various things for one. Two as I said earlier its relative, some people see the switch and Wii as gimmicky but are wrong g as their features are key and very I portent tongue games play.

Stop trying to redefine the word to your narrative. Raijin has gimmicks compared to the other two variations because they could have given him safe pop ups without having g to "buff" his move set this it's a gimmick to try to attract people to want to use him. Btw can you post gameplay showing what you mean then we'll talk.

No need to be scared unless you're afraid of being judged?

 

[Mandolore1123]

Incorrect. The definition of the word gimmick.



gimmick
noun
https://www.merriam-webster.com/login

gim·mick | \ ˈgi-mik \
Definition of gimmick
(Entry 1 of 2)
1a: a mechanical device for secretly and dishonestly controlling gambling apparatus
b: an ingenious or novel mechanical device : GADGET
2a: an important feature that is not immediately apparent : CATCH… few readers would look for a gimmick in an advertisement featuring airline schedules, but few would fail to look for the fine print in an ad announcing New Low-Price Fares.— Robert L. Heilbroner
b: an ingenious and usually new scheme or angleEven in professional careers, mere competence and craftsmanship is no substitute for a gimmick.— James Poniewozik
c: a trick or device used to attract business or attentiona marketing gimmick
gimmick
verb
gimmicked; gimmicking; gimmicks
Definition of gimmick (Entry 2 of 2)
transitive verb
1: to alter or influence by means of a gimmick
2: to provide with a gimmick —often used with up

a gimmick can mean various things for one. Two as I said earlier its relative, some people see the switch and Wii as gimmicky but are wrong g as their features are key and very I portent tongue games play.

Stop trying to redefine the word to your narrative. Raijin has gimmicks compared to the other two variations because they could have given him safe pop ups without having g to "buff" his move set this it's a gimmick to try to attract people to want to use him. Btw can you post gameplay showing what you mean then we'll talk.

No need to be scared unless you're afraid of being judged?

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/gimmick
Not scared at all. I’ve even shown you a video of what gimmicks mean in fighting games. NRS buffing Raijin was no “trick or device to attract more people to use him” NOTHING about Raijin fits the Merriam-Webster dictionary OR the Cambridge English dictionary (which was the definition quoted in the K&M video). It certainly does not fit the fighting game definition, where there is a guaranteed way to get out of the move but people get hit because of lac of MU knowledge. It’s pretty clear there are only certain ways and certain conditions to get out of DF2. In other string it’s completely safe and a legit way to mix people up.

You are the only one who’s trying and failing to redefine a word to fit your narrative.

Gimmick is a relative term. To me...

This is called redefining a term. To say “to me” means that you are trying to say what a word means in your opinion, which can be any number of things. This doesn’t work in a discussion because there has to be a commonly agreed definition before any term is used. You clearly don’t even know what a gimmick is, that’s why you erroneously pointed out that DF2 is a gimmick, and someone else corrected you.

 

[MKF30]

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/gimmick
Not scared at all. I’ve even shown you a video of what gimmicks mean in fighting games. NRS buffing Raijin was no “trick or device to attract more people to use him” NOTHING about Raijin fits the Merriam-Webster dictionary OR the Cambridge English dictionary (which was the definition quoted in the K&M video). It certainly does not fit the fighting game definition, where there is a guaranteed way to get out of the move but people get hit because of lac of MU knowledge. It’s pretty clear there are only certain ways and certain conditions to get out of DF2. In other string it’s completely safe and a legit way to mix people up.

You are the only one who’s trying and failing to redefine a word to fit your narrative.

This is called redefining a term. To say “to me” means that you are trying to say what a word means in your opinion, which can be any number of things. This doesn’t work in a discussion because there has to be a commonly agreed definition before any term is used. You clearly don’t even know what a gimmick is, that’s why you erroneously pointed out that DF2 is a gimmick, and someone else corrected you.

Mirriam has been official forever bro, and you're literally repeating nearly everything I said already with a different coat of paint except for a few things. Thanks for proving my point.

Just curious to see some from you since you're often one of the first to criticize but never showed gameplay yourself. But it's ok nobody wants to be judge, it's always easier to judge.
It actually does but it's ok to agree to disagree. Besides, the word as I've pointed out has different meanings. Mk 11 is full of gimmicks when you compared to previous titles.

Match up knowledge is key but there will always be some gimmicks in this game regardless of the match up. Raiden in raijin will have a much better shot vs geras than his other 2 variations. However it's because he has stronger tools and buffs to make him safer. Some would call that a gimmick that has to be utilized though I will agree with you ultimately since hes still lower and dont see him winning anything anytime soon so he needs all he can get.

Sorry, but you dont speak for the entire mkc or fg. That's your opinion, not a fact which you seem to have trouble differentiating I've noticed. Your opinion which in happen to disagree with, mk 11 has tons of gimmicks, broken elements and things that are inconsistent compared to past MKs this is a fact. I dont know what you're talking about but nobody ever corrected me as I never said df 2 was a gimmick. The only thing I've ever said about d2 is it was a good zoning tool. So clearly you're mixed up with someone else. See, even you make mistakes

 

[Mandolore1123]

Mirriam has been official forever bro.

Just curious to see some from you since you're often one of the first to criticize but never showed gameplay yourself. But it's ok nobody wants to be judge, it's always easier to judge.
It actually does but it's ok to agree to disagree. Besides, the word as I've pointed out has different meanings. Mk 11 is full of gimmicks when you compared to previous titles.

Match up knowledge is key but there will always be some gimmicks in this game regardless of the match up. Raiden in raijin will have a much better shot vs geras than his other 2 variations. However it's because he has stronger tools and buffs to make him safer. Some would call that a gimmick that has to be utilized though I will agree with you ultimately since hes still lower and dont see him winning anything anytime soon so he needs all he can get.

Sorry, but you dont speak for the entire mkc or fg. That's your opinion, not a fact which you seem to have trouble differentiating I've noticed. Your opinion which in happen to disagree with, mk 11 has tons of gimmicks, broken elements and things that are inconsistent compared to past MKs this is a fact. I dont know what you're talking about but nobody ever corrected me as I never said df 2 was a gimmick. The only thing I've ever said about d2 is it was a good zoning tool. So clearly you're mixed up with someone else. See, even you make mistakes

I wasn’t the first to judge your misuse of the English language, Arqwart was. Learn to count.
I don’t speak for the entire FGC, but there are definitions that people adhere to, like the video I showed you. You are the only one spouting your own opinion like it’s fact when you’re blatantly wrong.

How is having a gapless, always-safe special and the ability to punish strings you block a gimmick? Not to mention the variation has a popup so it does just the same damage as TW.

I'm referring to his buff moves that make him viable but regarding your question, referring to the first part especially. Gapless, always safe special? lol you just answered your own question.

Someone asks you a question on how a gap-less, safe special is a gimmick, and You reply that the fact that it is gap-less and always safe means that it is a gimmick (which is your response when saying other people have answered their own question, meaning the answer is within their question). I’m not getting mixed up with someone else. You’re not reading your own posts

 

[MKF30]

I wasn’t the first to judge your misuse of the English language, Arqwart was. Learn to count.
I don’t speak for the entire FGC, but there are definitions that people adhere to, like the video I showed you. You are the only one spouting your own opinion like it’s fact when you’re blatantly wrong.



Someone asks you a question on how a gap-less, safe special is a gimmick, and You reply that the fact that it is gap-less and always safe means that it is a gimmick (which is your response when saying other people have answered their own question, meaning the answer is within their question). I’m not getting mixed up with someone else. You’re not reading your own posts

Too bad I didnt misuse it to begin with. I was at the top of my class fyi in English, thank you very much. I could teach you a thing or two. Stick to math, since numbers seem to be your forte. No, he didnt he disputed why it wasn't a gimmick as he said nothing about the English language, learn to read.

Nope, like I said if you actually read more carefully you'd see you're weong. I said several times its MY OPINION, NOT FACT. Do you not know what "fact"means? If not I'll help you out since you seem to confuse facts with opinion. You're the one who speak a like your word is fact when it's not and like I said you dont speak for everyone so stop. I know its hard for someone as arrogant as you're but newsflash, you dont know everything kid.

Actually, yeah I am reading my own posts but when someone clearly literally answers their own question why ask? He doesnt even use Raiden last time I checked, hes a dvorah player. His post was most likely to instigate as he doesnt have a rep for posting in this thread so get off his balls and let others debate themselves.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Too bad I didnt misuse it to begin with. I was at the top of my class fyi in English, thank you very much. I could teach a thing or two. Stick to math. No, he didnt he disputed why it wasn't a gimmick as he said nothing about the English language, learn to read.

Nope, like I said learn to read. I said several times its MY OPINION. Do you not know what that means? I'd not I'll help you out since you seem to confuse facts with opinion. You're the one who speak a like your word is fact when it's not and like I said you dont speak for everyone so stop. I know its hard for someone as arrogant as you're but newsflash, you dont know everything kid.

Actually, yeah I am reading my own posts but when someone clearly literally answers their own question why ask? He doesnt even use Raiden last time I checked, hes a dvorah player. His post was most likely to instigate as he doesnt have a rep for posting in this thread so get off his balls and let others debate themselves.

You’re right. I don’t know everything. I just know that your definition of what a gimmick is and how it pertains to Raijin is wrong.

 

[MKF30]

Mandorlore: Sorry you feel that way, you're entitled to your opinion though. But an opinion can't be wrong just because you feel it's wrong is your opinion on my opinion, doesn't make it wrong though. Like if I say I enjoy MOS and you say you hated it, it's not a fact because that's your opinion just like mine isn't I just prefer it being a DC fan and seeing a more unsure, grounded Superman as oppose to "oh hey random alien with powers automatically cheerful in dark, pessimistic world" totally realistic when it's not.

I'm not sure you got my point and have the wrong definition of the word gimmick as you're ignoring the alternate meanings that I posted earlier.

However, we can agree to disagree.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

wow i just found out what they did to electric burst with quick charge up ... looks like raijin is finally up there in the dumb tier

Welcome to many moons ago, haha.

How is having a gapless, always-safe special and the ability to punish strings you block a gimmick? Not to mention the variation has a popup so it does just the same damage as TW.

Burst has a gap after d1, unlike Storm Cell which is obviously hella unsafe, unless you meant after his regular block strings?
Also, Raijin actually slightly out damages TW outside of KB combos which TW is better at.

That said, I agree with what you're trying to say. I've heard several pros that main Raiden have all moved back to TW though I'm not entirely sure as to why.
My best guess at the moment is perhaps the utility given from teleport, and convenience of a launcher like Storm Cell that doesn't require upkeep is perhaps more attractive at the moment. Could just be a play style preference thing as both variations clearly have their strengths and weaknessses.

As much as I love teleporting, I prefer the safety and defense afforded by Quick Charge. Being the only character in the game (so far) that has a mechanic to reduce chip damage that also stacks with the game's universal chip mitigation is actually insane just by itself, which is before we even look at it also having the fastest reversal in the game with an absurd effective range. Honestly, if it didn't already enhance two other equipped moves I would think Quick Charge, out of any ability in the game, should be 2-slots.

If I had my way I would make Spark Port 1-slot and shove Rolling Thunder into TW, updated to follow the opponent on amp or otherwise not move at all. Then I think TW would feel more complete.

 

[kabelfritz]

@MKF30

in fighting games i also know the word "gimmick" as something thats actually unsafe/not that good but will work due to opponents lack of knowledge or confusion by mixups. for raijin, d1~electric burst would be a gimmick. something like f4~electric burst is just really good but no gimmick.

 

[MKF30]

@MKF30

in fighting games i also know the word "gimmick" as something thats actually unsafe/not that good but will work due to opponents lack of knowledge or confusion by mixups. for raijin, d1~electric burst would be a gimmick. something like f4~electric burst is just really good but no gimmick.

I agree with your first example namely. I was pointing out earlier or what I meant like when he uses the buff and is safer, has more damage compared to him without it he's like a different character you know what I mean. I have no issues with F4 into EB, hell he needs it lol. I think it's a bigger issue with characters like Geras, Jacqui etc than Raiden in this game. I've played Raijin it's fun, just don't fit my personal style being a zoner and I hate how he can be outzoned in that variation as good as it is. I enjoy TW hehe I'm one of those classic MK Raiden guys that must have the teleport. lol