Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Mandolore1123]

After consulting with the Elder Gods... #buffRaidenView attachment 16004

Storm cell doesn’t need buffs.
His KBs are all done except the superman one
I still don’t think B12 needs to be safe.
Teleport doesn’t need to be a base move imo. Doing this would buff Raijin and make it so there isn’t much reason to use TW at all. You can argue changing it into a one slot move though.
Other buffs I can get behind.

 

[MKF30]

After consulting with the Elder Gods... #buffRaidenView attachment 16004

Agreed, I'm with ya. He needs those buffs for sure and he needs something safe, at this point I dont care if it's his superman, storm cell or lightning and he seriously needs to have a wake up teleport like mk dc or mk 2. I shouldn't be getting hit by a dumb projectile after a knockdown from mid to full screen.

 

[Mel0]

After consulting with the Elder Gods... #buffRaidenView attachment 16004

I've had a similar idea for the new electric fly KB. Just have it hit an airborne opponent raw

 

[Trustful_Whale]

I've had a similar idea for the new electric fly KB. Just have it hit an airborne opponent raw

This was exactly the old requirement before it got changed to what we have now; air to air amp fly.

 

[Darth Mao]

Hmm...
About these proposed changes, let's go:

• b1,2 around -7~-6 on block isn't a crime [Jax's f3,3 is -4 i.e.], but if they buff other strings wouldn't need to change anything in this one;
• If they reduce bf1 frames there is no reason to modify anything in db2, because Raiden will be able to hit confirm any string with db2 or bf1 MB to be safe at -5 without a gap between strings and bf1;
• The idea of KB in the last hit of b1,4 is very good for Raijin, but they would be buffing something even in variations where the string is useless. Leaving it with the same block/fblock effects of the 3,2,1 string would be better;
• df2 is to check people, don't need to change;
• I agree that Sparkport should be a core move, but that would modify the other two variations making Thunder Wave useless;
• b2 can't be special cancelable, we don't want a braindead flip coin machine here. Better range or a little more pushback on block would be great;
• Raiden don't need more KBs, we don't want a Geras 2.0 here. The only ones who urgently need change are Fly and Air Fly, modify to hit an airborne opponent raw and it will be fine.

 

[MKF30]

I would make lightning strikes recovery faster. safer. I see no harm in this, if freaking geras pit can have that fast recovery and several characters projectiles can. Then they can def make raidens recovery faster on that move too.

 

[samiorfali]

Regarding teleport cancels: the timing isn't strict, it's just in a different spot than usual. Just cancel late into the block stun animation and you're golden. It's near the end, not difficult at all.

i didnt say it is difficult for me .. i posted a tutorial on how to do it when game came out:

 

[samiorfali]

RAIDEN FACTS
NRS... WE NEED ANSWERS!

another infographic.

 

[DDutchguy]

RAIDEN FACTS
NRS... WE NEED ANSWERS!

another infographic.
View attachment 16006

A character being unique, iconic and a god doesn’t really relate to balance in any way though. Raiden’s low tier in this game because it just happened to be that way. Nobody went like “I’m gonna make Raiden weak this game”, it just happened to be that way. Raiden‘s Thunder God variation was top 1 at the start of MKX so it’s not like Raiden has never been good.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Raiden‘s Thunder God variation was top 1 at the start of MKX so it’s not like Raiden has never been good.

I remember the f1 days fondly.

 

[MKF30]

Raidens teleport was also actually really good in mk2, mk vs dc. Mk9 it wasnt horrible.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Raidens teleport was also actually really good in mk2, mk vs dc. Mk9 it wasnt horrible.

Uh, pretty sure his MK9 teleport was his best one before the nerf.

 

[MKF30]

Uh, pretty sure his MK9 teleport was his best one before the nerf.

No, it had nothing on mk dcs teleport lol. He could wake up using it easily and it was much faster. Mk 9s wasnt bad and had good speed, it just wasnt mk vs dc level. Not even close.

His MK vs DC people complained it was broken lol. Check out this vid.

 

[Marlow]

I actually went back and looked at some of the Injustice 2 Raiden stuff. He had some interesting stuff in that game, too bad they weren't able to incorporate more of that into one of his MK11 builds.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

No, it had nothing on mk dcs teleport lol. He could wake up using it easily and it was much faster. Mk 9s wasnt bad and had good speed, it just wasnt mk vs dc level. Not even close.

His MK vs DC people complained it was broken lol. Check out this vid.

Oh, right, I keep forgetting that shitty game exists.

 

[JeffX]

I actually went back and looked at some of the Injustice 2 Raiden stuff. He had some interesting stuff in that game, too bad they weren't able to incorporate more of that into one of his MK11 builds.

Not really. He was quite literally the worst character in that game. He had some teleport set ups in the corner. But trait had to be activated to use far teleport and bolt stop. Basically they handicapped him by making his trait the way you’re supposed to play him. He should have had access to all of his trait kit and the trait should have been master of storm orbs. That would have given him some much needed space control.

Mk11 raiden I still feel is better than that mess from injustice 2.

 

[samiorfali]

it just happened that s2 is 11, one of the slowest high in the game.
it just happed that b12 is -9 and other characters mids can be safe.
it just happed that raiden has only one plus string and it has a huge gap., all other strings are minus.
it just happened that his projectiles are the slowest when other characters are 15 to20 frames startup.
it just happened that his KBS reqs are silly, when jax, garas and others are easy.
it just happed that raiden has weak offense and his overhead is stupid when sonya tshang erron all have godlike mixups.
i could go for ages...

Raiden was weak in MKX he got nerfed, weak in I2 and is the same in MK11.
What side are you guys on?

SUPPORT #BUFFRAIDEN mania EVEN IF IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE TO YOU!!

common sense says raiden shouldnt be that weak, that is what us raiden players here should be taking about.

 

[rainuS]

cage has 9f mid projectile

 

[samiorfali]

Its making me sick that us raiden players disagreeing instead of supporting

 

[JeffX]

Its making me sick that us raiden players disagreeing instead of supporting

That's my reaction. Like shut the fuck up and just support the buff Raiden movement.

 

[Evil Canadian]

So the Raiden thread...

the thread...

OF THE DAMNED

 

[Mandolore1123]

SUPPORT #BUFFRAIDEN mania EVEN IF IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE TO YOU!!

He needs buffs, just not the lunacy some people suggest.

 

[Mel0]

He needs buffs, just not the lunacy some people suggest.

Ok what are some reasonable buffs that could be possible?

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Its making me sick that us raiden players disagreeing instead of supporting

Having a balanced discussion is important. If we all just agreed with each other we wouldn't know which ideas are good or bad, or what needs work. This is also useless feedback for any developers that happen to be reading any of this if all of us are just high fiving each other to let Raiden have a 6 frame overhead or something.
A lot of us do agree on stuff, but the idea of just blindly supporting because we're Raiden players doesn't make sense. We want buffs, but we want smart buffs.
Nobody wants Raiden to become Liu Kang or something. Disagreement also doesn't mean that person doesn't want buffs or to support.

Going hard in the paint isn't a good design philosophy just because the character is weak. Let's step away from the mob mentality statements maybe.

Ok what are some reasonable buffs that could be possible?

Check out the last 5 pages or so of this thread, or even the Buff Requests thread.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Check out the last 5 pages or so of this thread, or even the Buff Requests thread.

I find a lot of ppl forget we have this thread and had some discussion on this topic.

Ok what are some reasonable buffs that could be possible?

He mostly needs frame data tweaks here and there, as well as hitbox fixes to certain moves so they don’t whiff.
FIX HITBOX OF:

• s3 to hit crouch blocking opponents
• F1 to reflect the actual length of staff
• D2 so it doesn’t whiff on people neutral jumping
• U2 same as D2
• EITHER: storm cell or B12 so TW combos can hit female hitboxes the same as male ones, no reason for us to do less damage to females just because storm cell whiffs after B12

(Might be missing something here but these are just off the top of my mind)

Frame data changes:

• Make lighning strike safer at full screen on block and on whiff. Doesn’t need to be super safe, just safer so characters can’t just punish him for throwing a full screen zoning tool
• Bolt could start up a bit faster so he can check opponents’ projectiles a bit easier
• F3/F32 made a bit safer (debatable since flawless block reversals add another layer of mind games, can do without)
• B14 safer (acts to punish delayed WU and compliments B12 since B12 ends in a high), maybe the 4 overhead could be faster too since you’re using this to catch people off guard anyway
• Maybe S2 made a bit faster so make it easier to jail into highs after pokes or F3 (but Raiden can effectively jail into F3 after poke or F3 on hit so not sure if really needed, 243 is the closest he has to an auto-shimmy though so if this is buffed Raiden might be quite good, NEEDS MORE DISCUSSION)

That’s all I have off the top of my mind.