Liu Kang's +3 on block from Jails, hes not the only one!

[The_Tile]

Kabal's s2 is +3 on block and can be jailed from D1 take into account he also has a 8f mid and plenty other tools including true 50/50's and staggers off his 9f Mid:

Just saying your Kabal info is all wrong, he has no 8f mid. He's got his 9f F4 which leads into a 50/50 in Clean Cut or hitconfirmable plus frames in Mean Streak at the cost of a defensive bar. No staggers here.

He does have staggers off his other slower mids though, but I believe you're mistaking his 13f mid for his 9f one.

 

[Wigy]

All this talk of counterplay and i just watched pros hold all the f4 shit nonstop including the best player in the world.

You can't make comparisons to other characters but just saying x character has the same as Kang so it's fine. You need to take the whole character into account. The only reason I can think you'd bother making a thread with this comparison is to dull the hate toward Kang but it's a pointless comparison.

These other characters don't have a 9 frame with like 4 guessing games, another 9 frame mid, an advancing high string that's plus 3 a bunch of other staggers.

He has 6 KBs (not including d2) that are all very easy to land. A top tier fatal blow that's nigh impossible to punish.

There's plenty of stuff that looks good on paper but dealing with all of his 7228 options up close on reaction is a completely different thing.

Oh and he has the best antiair in the game and great zoning that leads to basically unavoidable chip deaths constantly.

He is too good. These comparisons are dumb. Theory craft as much as you want he's absolutely tearing up the pro scene and ruining KL

If they don't patch this soon the scene is going to take a huge hit.

 

[NothingPersonal]

Shao Kahn has +4 s1 on jail off of d1 and d3, but it's a just frame. Why can't the Emperor have good things?

 

[GLoRToR]

All this talk of counterplay and i just watched pros hold all the f4 shit nonstop including the best player in the world.

You can't make comparisons to other characters but just saying x character has the same as Kang so it's fine. You need to take the whole character into account.

No character should have omnipotent mid launchers that destroy the neutral and that's literally all you have to do to win games.
Frankly, the strongest moves should be highs so that you really have to take that risk for the reward

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

You can't make comparisons to other characters but just saying x character has the same as Kang so it's fine. You need to take the whole character into account. The only reason I can think you'd bother making a thread with this comparison is to dull the hate toward Kang but it's a pointless comparison.

You seem to have a vendetta against Kang.
In regards to my thread it says the +3 is fine because its not broke and I've displayed that enough. I'm not talking about Liu as a character being fine just this tool.

I believe most of his tools are strong but counterable if you play the MU right and not broke but I have expressed what I feel needs to be changed with kang but didn't include it here because I didn't feel it necessary.

I think Kangs F4 should be -10 and 10f Startup
And his Hurtbox needs to be adjusted on several moves including his throw, fireballs and FB.

These other characters don't have a 9 frame with like 4 guessing games, another 9 frame mid, an advancing high string that's plus 3 a bunch of other staggers.

Not all of them have a 9f mid but they have plenty if strong tools. The ones who do have 9f mids I do feel have as many layers and if you lab them up I bet you will find it.

He has 6 KBs (not including d2) that are all very easy to land. A top tier fatal blow that's nigh impossible to punish.

Almost every KB is very easy to land in this game, its nor hard to stack them or counter hit anything. He does have quite a lot but I will say a few of them aren't the easiest to land like his airfireball into full screen Flykick.
But I use WSL as a pocket

There's plenty of stuff that looks good on paper but dealing with all of his 7228 options up close on reaction is a completely different thing.

He does have a lot of options but every character forces guess unless you make reads and download the players patterns.

Oh and he has the best antiair in the game and great zoning that leads to basically unavoidable chip deaths constantly.

His D3 is a great AA but its far from the best.

Cetrion D1 is very similar.
Kabal D4 is godlike
D'Vorah's DF2 is very godlike into 50%
Kollector's s2 is better than Liu's
Nightwolf FB is probably best in the game.

There are plenTy more but just wanted to name a few

He is too good. These comparisons are dumb. Theory craft as much as you want he's absolutely tearing up the pro scene and ruining KL

I agree he is very strong and good at many things but many characters are jack if all trades and some have better tools than him in certain areas.

Pro's went to Twitter and said the opposite. They said NinjaKilla outplayed them with LK. They didn't blame it on the character.

Rewind, Deoxys and Sonic to name a few:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1170803518808252417

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1170806449708158977

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1170806038821519367

I'm not seeing pros struggling with matchups every match was to the last touch final round in the last Major.

 

[lordlosh]

And then we have Johnny Cage, character with zero useful KBs, sh*** FB, that is even hard to land from combo, no OH, and his only zoning tool is a high Forceball.

And again this guy does not respect the opinion of the others and try to imposed his opinion.

Didnt you understand by now, that no one believe you ? You make your point long ago, can you let other people said their opinion?

And even Magician, which is a Pro player, that main Kang, said he is 100% OP broken. Scar also said he is OP.
Plenty of Pro complains about Kang, one way or another. They just dont use twitter as a tool. Go watch some of the pro streams and you will understand that. Sikander also said that character is completely unbalance.

As far as SonicFox and Rewind goes, they didnt say a s**** when they lose to ninja Kang in MKXL, and said ninja is insane, but at the ned of the spawn of the game Kang was the most Broken OP character this game has ever seen.

And no a lot of character doesnt have easy KBs. Right there you show how much of bias you are. But to downplay him, you was explaining how every character in the game is super easy to play, just LOL.

Johnny Cage is a pure example of that.


But count me a characters with 4 KBs with such HIGH raw damage, and as good FB as Liu Kang ones. And that this characters litteraly land every set, because good Liu Kang players almost always land atleast 3 of his KBs and his FB is 100% land on will.
The KBs every single Liu Kang even have little to no brain can land on will are his throw KB(x2), his Bicycle Kick and his F4.
His Flying Dragon Kick can land the KB on max range as well, not only on Air Fireball.
His parry is tricky to land, but ninjakilla is doing it pretty constantly lately.
But still name me a strong character as him, that have 4 KBs that he simply land every set and also possess OP FB.
Im waiting on that.
And every Pro Player out there said Kang have the best anti-air in the game. The commentators as well. The downplaying from you is ridiculous.

Also you simply cant use Wakeups against Kang, which is another strong tool that this character possess.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Scorpion also has +3 off a jail if you just do st2.

 

[@MylesWright_]

If you are trying to compare strings to Liu Kangs 12 the strings other character have should be hit confirmable, plus and stuff flawless U2s

Come on now. Geras jailing into a stand 3 is not the same as liu kang 12 now lol

 

[rainuS]

someone is upplaying Kabal to oblivion in this thread lol
Liu is way better than Kabal in any aspect.

 

[lordlosh]

Yeah a lot of people are praising Kabal, but he aint nothing special. And its like oh Kabal is so good, but you play with him ...
His result at Pro Level is blatant average, even worst than that. Same for Noob Saibot.
Scorpion result at Pro level are really bad, but i think the character have potential.
Sub result at Pro level is pure garbage, because the overall design of the character is bad. He lacks a lot of things, but mostly variety, its a one trick pony that you learn his trick easy and know how to stop him.
I think if some character are tooned down, the overall balance of the game will be a lot better.

 

[Dogeofthesea]

Did someone went from defending Scorpion to defending Liu?

 

[Wigy]

You seem to be on a crusade to justify his stupidity? You think people aren't going to post on your thread disagreeing? You keep posting these liu Kang is fine threads.

Also most characters have easy KBs?

Are you having a giraffe? I'll go through the characters I play.

Frost, throw KBs and b21 kb which leads to absolutely no damage at all. Rest won't happen.

Kollector

2 grab KB
Command grab one maybe.

Cage

LOL

Also his flying kick lands punishing projectiles.

You think any pro is guna be out here saying that players getting carried? They'll get so much flame for that and it's very unsportsmanlike.

Kangs d3 antiairs dvora easy peasy. It's hard to really determine the best but it's easily top 3.

He needs to loose more than 1frame and some hitbox changes. As it stands he has the best stagger pressure in the game or easily top 3.
Great zoning, great counterzoning, 6 KBs that are all easy and a stupid FB. He has far too much strength in every department.

F4 should be 11 and his KBs NEED to take a hit and low fireball reg and mb should have more recovery and 12 should be plus 1. FB no pushback on block.

 

[DeftMonk]

You seem to have a vendetta against Kang.
In regards to my thread it says the +3 is fine because its not broke and I've displayed that enough. I'm not talking about Liu as a character being fine just this tool.

I believe most of his tools are strong but counterable if you play the MU right and not broke but I have expressed what I feel needs to be changed with kang but didn't include it here because I didn't feel it necessary.

Bro I see what your doing here but lets approach this in a different way... I don't want to see kang nerfed for real. I would rather every character have 90% shit wigy mentioned like kang does and then game would be soooo fun to watch. The 9f mid into the blender is hella dumb imo. If any move is gonna have that many options it shouldnt be a damn mid thats that fast. But KB he can land every match? Why doesn't everyone have that shit? (or at least KB that you can land......ever. If you ever see cage f43 or mime time land ever in a tourney link a vid in this thread I will throw you 100 bucks on paypal, no bullshit.

The way your making this post tho its kinda like making a post about some random string mk9 kabal had (obviously liu isnt this out of balance) but the point is its not the 1 string its the problem that characters are balanced as a whole not "this 1 string is ok in itself". When its added to the plethora of other shit....is it too much? is the question.

 

[lordlosh]

Nqh this guy is a lost case. He was even using his friend to buff his opinion ...
His buddy Kindred was explaining how Liu is perfectly okay and its not even top tier, and was explaining how he wasnt even a Kang player to put more weight to his downplaying the character. Yet the guy not only main Kang, but it was his only character since may.
When i see his profile post i was like lol.
They was on a lost crusade mission to downplay the character.

And changing his 9f to 10f will do next to nothing. He needs a lot more nerf and balancing thing.
And i still dont get how this character have 3293726382646 special moves, yet some character have just 1 or 2 special move. This is incredible dumb.

 

[JSF]

some of this stuff looks the same on paper but you have to factor in other things like range and hit/hurtboxes. I for one know for a fact the frost example is not even half as good as the kang situation but when you see +5 and 11f mid it looks like it. its deeper than rap

 

[Sutter Pain]

God damn you people got too much time to go around in circles like this.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Bro I see what your doing here but lets approach this in a different way... I don't want to see kang nerfed for real. I would rather every character have 90% shit wigy mentioned like kang does and then game would be soooo fun to watch. The 9f mid into the blender is hella dumb imo. If any move is gonna have that many options it shouldnt be a damn mid thats that fast. But KB he can land every match? Why doesn't everyone have that shit? (or at least KB that you can land......ever. If you ever see cage f43 or mime time land ever in a tourney link a vid in this thread I will throw you 100 bucks on paypal, no bullshit.

The way your making this post tho its kinda like making a post about some random string mk9 kabal had (obviously liu isnt this out of balance) but the point is its not the 1 string its the problem that characters are balanced as a whole not "this 1 string is ok in itself". When its added to the plethora of other shit....is it too much? is the question.

I'm just talking about his +3 off 12. They obviously intended it to be that way. To gain perspective frost is also 6f after the +5 with her 11f mid. It seems many characters have around this advantage and its a double high.

Overall I do honestly think he is fine considering his moves as a whole. I believe he is S tier for sure.

I do think certain things about him is dumb but its not what I've herd complaints about.

Everyone seems to hate his F4 a lot and that's fine. Has plenty of options after it, I think many other characters do too. But I did suggest it get changed to 10f or 11f in many threads and to make the first hit punishable making him have less options.

Most of all I think he needs his hurtboxes fixed because after throwing many characters can't D2 him after making the read. That's dumb.

I use WSL picked him up recently after the patch and I don't use F4 that much and I wouldn't mind it being 10 or 11 frames. Which definitely would hurt him in layers off F4 and allow others to punish 12 into F4 with starters.

He really doesn't have anything broke that others don't have and if characters being good in many ways was cause for characters getting nerfed then several would be due for nerfs: Cetrion, Jax, Kabal, Baraka, Geras, Sonya, Sub and several more are Jack of All Trades chars that excell in many areas.
I don't think that's reason to Nerf. Before considering a Nerf I ask does the tool stop the majority from playing the game as intended (The Meta) strike throw, currently. If it doesn't do that its not game breaking.

Is his tools strong? No doubt

If he was to get nerfed I'd rather it be his F4 Being 10-11f startup also -10 on block and Hurtbox Being fixed so players can punish him in those situations.

I'm using WSL as a pocket vs zoners After patch and his +3 is very much needed in that variation. Its far from broke and many have plus frames after jailing and many of these characters are S Tiers who have amazing tools. Sine have said Jax and Kabal don't have what he has and that's not true they are very strong characters all around.
I use Mean Streak Kabal and I'll admit he is S to S- tier no doubt. He has just as many options as Liu off his 9f mid If not more.

Example of Kabals options off 9f mid after +3:

F4xxNMD(into any I'd his strings) The possibilities are endless including a second cancel off anything and F2xxNDC is +3 on block.
F4xxDB1(low)
F4xxDB1 Amped (Safe)
F4xxBF1 (-10 with pushback)
F4xxAmped BF1 (-1 on block)
F4xxNDC into anything
F41+3 (overhead)
F4xxDB4 unsafe
F4xxBF3 unsafe but combos meterlessly.

His 50/50 is fuzzyable but its an option They have to guess. Keep in mind most of Liu's options off F4 mix is unsafe and some are reactable.

Same with jax but I'm not writing it lol.

 

[MrArcher15]

I'm just talking about his +3 off 12. They obviously intended it to be that way. To gain perspective frost is also 6f after the +5 with her 11f mid. It seems many characters have around this advantage and its a double high.

Overall I do honestly think he is fine considering his moves as a whole. I believe he is S tier for sure.

I do think certain things about him is dumb but its not what I've herd complaints about.

Everyone seems to hate his F4 a lot and that's fine. Has plenty of options after it, I think many other characters do too. But I did suggest it get changed to 10f or 11f in many threads and to make the first hit punishable making him have less options.

Most of all I think he needs his hurtboxes fixed because after throwing many characters can't D2 him after making the read. That's dumb.

I use WSL picked him up recently after the patch and I don't use F4 that much and I wouldn't mind it being 10 or 11 frames. Which definitely would hurt him in layers off F4 and allow others to punish 12 into F4 with starters.

He really doesn't have anything broke that others don't have and if characters being good in many ways was cause for characters getting nerfed then several would be due for nerfs: Cetrion, Jax, Kabal, Baraka, Geras, Sonya, Sub and several more are Jack of All Trades chars that excell in many areas.
I don't think that's reason to Nerf. Before considering a Nerf I ask does the tool stop the majority from playing the game as intended (The Meta) strike throw, currently. If it doesn't do that its not game breaking.

Is his tools strong? No doubt

If he was to get nerfed I'd rather it be his F4 Being 10-11f startup also -10 on block and Hurtbox Being fixed so players can punish him in those situations.

I'm using WSL as a pocket vs zoners After patch and his +3 is very much needed in that variation. Its far from broke and many have plus frames after jailing and many of these characters are S Tiers who have amazing tools. Sine have said Jax and Kabal don't have what he has and that's not true they are very strong characters all around.
I use Mean Streak Kabal and I'll admit he is S to S- tier no doubt. He has just as many options as Liu off his 9f mid If not more.

Example of Kabals options off 9f mid after +3:

F4xxNMD(into any I'd his strings) The possibilities are endless including a second cancel off anything and F2xxNDC is +3 on block.
F4xxDB1(low)
F4xxDB1 Amped (Safe)
F4xxBF1 (-10 with pushback)
F4xxAmped BF1 (-1 on block)
F4xxNDC into anything
F41+3 (overhead)
F4xxDB4 unsafe
F4xxBF3 unsafe but combos meterlessly.

His 50/50 is fuzzyable but its an option They have to guess. Keep in mind most of Liu's options off F4 mix is unsafe and some are reactable.

Same with jax but I'm not writing it lol.

Hey hey you leave my boy Jax out of this

 

[DeftMonk]

I'm just talking about his +3 off 12. They obviously intended it to be that way. To gain perspective frost is also 6f after the +5 with her 11f mid. It seems many characters have around this advantage and its a double high.

Overall I do honestly think he is fine considering his moves as a whole. I believe he is S tier for sure.

I do think certain things about him is dumb but its not what I've herd complaints about.

Everyone seems to hate his F4 a lot and that's fine. Has plenty of options after it, I think many other characters do too. But I did suggest it get changed to 10f or 11f in many threads and to make the first hit punishable making him have less options.

Most of all I think he needs his hurtboxes fixed because after throwing many characters can't D2 him after making the read. That's dumb.

I use WSL picked him up recently after the patch and I don't use F4 that much and I wouldn't mind it being 10 or 11 frames. Which definitely would hurt him in layers off F4 and allow others to punish 12 into F4 with starters.

He really doesn't have anything broke that others don't have and if characters being good in many ways was cause for characters getting nerfed then several would be due for nerfs: Cetrion, Jax, Kabal, Baraka, Geras, Sonya, Sub and several more are Jack of All Trades chars that excell in many areas.
I don't think that's reason to Nerf. Before considering a Nerf I ask does the tool stop the majority from playing the game as intended (The Meta) strike throw, currently. If it doesn't do that its not game breaking.

Is his tools strong? No doubt

If he was to get nerfed I'd rather it be his F4 Being 10-11f startup also -10 on block and Hurtbox Being fixed so players can punish him in those situations.

I'm using WSL as a pocket vs zoners After patch and his +3 is very much needed in that variation. Its far from broke and many have plus frames after jailing and many of these characters are S Tiers who have amazing tools. Sine have said Jax and Kabal don't have what he has and that's not true they are very strong characters all around.
I use Mean Streak Kabal and I'll admit he is S to S- tier no doubt. He has just as many options as Liu off his 9f mid If not more.

Example of Kabals options off 9f mid after +3:

F4xxNMD(into any I'd his strings) The possibilities are endless including a second cancel off anything and F2xxNDC is +3 on block.
F4xxDB1(low)
F4xxDB1 Amped (Safe)
F4xxBF1 (-10 with pushback)
F4xxAmped BF1 (-1 on block)
F4xxNDC into anything
F41+3 (overhead)
F4xxDB4 unsafe
F4xxBF3 unsafe but combos meterlessly.

His 50/50 is fuzzyable but its an option They have to guess. Keep in mind most of Liu's options off F4 mix is unsafe and some are reactable.

Same with jax but I'm not writing it lol.

I mean imo he should have some combo damage lowered/higher scaling (its feasible to kill a person in two touches and that doesnt belong in this game) and something needs to be done with f4 but thats about it. Everyone should have fun to use fatal blows that you cann land outside of training room. I want all characters to be fun with lots of ways to approach them... Nerfing him wouldn't make me looking at johnnys KB list or a forceball flying over shaq-in -a-hat lightning man while crouch blocking (yet still 6 feet tall) any mmore fun.

 

[rainuS]

You crazy or what? endless possibilities?

First of all f4 has no reach you have to be in their face just touching them to hit it unlike LK f4.
After f4xxNDC Kabal is only +1 on block and he uses meter unlike Liu Kang is +4 for free. Plus one is like nothing tbh but +4 is a big thing.
He can only do this in Mean Streak variation, without cancel F4 is minus 4 on block.

f4xx DB1 unsafe -17 on block, amped also unsafe u can jump over 2nd saw, no reason to risk 6% from low to get full combo punish
f4xBF1 is duckable and why use this? it gives nothing so yeah so many options
f4xxAMPEDBF1 duckable its a high

Stop upplaying Kabal and dont even compare him to Liu Kang they are in different leagues.

 

[Blewdew]

I'm just talking about his +3 off 12. They obviously intended it to be that way. To gain perspective frost is also 6f after the +5 with her 11f mid. It seems many characters have around this advantage and its a double high.

Overall I do honestly think he is fine considering his moves as a whole. I believe he is S tier for sure.

I do think certain things about him is dumb but its not what I've herd complaints about.

Everyone seems to hate his F4 a lot and that's fine. Has plenty of options after it, I think many other characters do too. But I did suggest it get changed to 10f or 11f in many threads and to make the first hit punishable making him have less options.

Most of all I think he needs his hurtboxes fixed because after throwing many characters can't D2 him after making the read. That's dumb.

I use WSL picked him up recently after the patch and I don't use F4 that much and I wouldn't mind it being 10 or 11 frames. Which definitely would hurt him in layers off F4 and allow others to punish 12 into F4 with starters.

He really doesn't have anything broke that others don't have and if characters being good in many ways was cause for characters getting nerfed then several would be due for nerfs: Cetrion, Jax, Kabal, Baraka, Geras, Sonya, Sub and several more are Jack of All Trades chars that excell in many areas.
I don't think that's reason to Nerf. Before considering a Nerf I ask does the tool stop the majority from playing the game as intended (The Meta) strike throw, currently. If it doesn't do that its not game breaking.

Is his tools strong? No doubt

If he was to get nerfed I'd rather it be his F4 Being 10-11f startup also -10 on block and Hurtbox Being fixed so players can punish him in those situations.

I'm using WSL as a pocket vs zoners After patch and his +3 is very much needed in that variation. Its far from broke and many have plus frames after jailing and many of these characters are S Tiers who have amazing tools. Sine have said Jax and Kabal don't have what he has and that's not true they are very strong characters all around.
I use Mean Streak Kabal and I'll admit he is S to S- tier no doubt. He has just as many options as Liu off his 9f mid If not more.

Example of Kabals options off 9f mid after +3:

F4xxNMD(into any I'd his strings) The possibilities are endless including a second cancel off anything and F2xxNDC is +3 on block.
F4xxDB1(low)
F4xxDB1 Amped (Safe)
F4xxBF1 (-10 with pushback)
F4xxAmped BF1 (-1 on block)
F4xxNDC into anything
F41+3 (overhead)
F4xxDB4 unsafe
F4xxBF3 unsafe but combos meterlessly.

His 50/50 is fuzzyable but its an option They have to guess. Keep in mind most of Liu's options off F4 mix is unsafe and some are reactable.

Same with jax but I'm not writing it lol.

Ex Low saw is punishable, also f4xbf1 or bf1amp are not true since you can poke out on block and it doesn‘t combo on hit. The 50/50 is fuzzyable. There is only one option worth going for and that is f4nd or f4ndc which costs a bar.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Hey hey you leave my boy Jax out of this

Don't worry I feel he doesn't need nerfs he is just very strong.
Its ok to have good tools despite what others tell you

I mean imo he should have some combo damage lowered/higher scaling (its feasible to kill a person in two touches and that doesnt belong in this game) and something needs to be done with f4 but thats about it. Everyone should have fun to use fatal blows that you cann land outside of training room. I want all characters to be fun with lots of ways to approach them... Nerfing him wouldn't make me looking at johnnys KB list or a forceball flying over shaq-in -a-hat lightning man while crouch blocking (yet still 6 feet tall) any mmore fun.

I can agree with that, he could get some damage scaling on some stuff and many other characters should.

• KB's need to be more practical like his across the cast.
• I also think some characters could benefit greatly from fast Mids like Frost did getting 11f mid last patch.
• Hitboxes need fixed across the board.

Some characters feel too strong to those who use characters that are lacking like a 9f mud character vs Kotal feels like death. Instead I'd making characters like Liu, Sonya, Kabal, Geras, Cassie shit or boring by reducing their options we should just help characters that lack in many areas or are just lackluster compared to A+ tiers.
I mained Kotal since day 1 so I understand the feeling but I don't hate the better well equipped characters because of it. I hope for help later down the road that gives those characters more options and freedom.

 

[John_NX]

At the end of the day he's great at everything he does and needs to be toned down or at least bring other characters to his level. End of story.

 

[lordlosh]

This dude is trying to downplaying him, by putting b.c. and messing with other character, by talking about certain move with a raw data, that are completely normal in a real game situation.

He is putting character like Jax in there, where Jax damage is bull crap and have sh**** zoning tools, and is miles behind Kang as a whole. Outside of his KBs, Jax damage is total crab.
Shouldnt Kang combo damage outside his KBs be even lower than Jax, when you take into the consideration almost zero scaling FB, he have better and more KBs that are easy to land + a lot better zoning, anti zoning and anti-air tools.

Kabal and Baraka are far, far away from Kang. This only shows you how little he knows about the game or that he is desperate in downplaying Liu.
Sonya was already nerfed.
Geras was nerfed, tho his gauntled damage is really high, but his pressure is nothing special.

Kang was super strong even before the patch, but most people wasnt playing to his strength and was not playing him to his full potential.

I expect in the future some other character that are not consider so "great" to shine as well, but as it now, Liu Kang is definitely OP broken. Its not just strong, its uphill battle. In Pro level you have to be 3x better than him to beat him.
Whatever you do, he will connect that crab FB and will steal the round, after that no matter how good you are, he will connect his fast string and the KBs will drain your health, so you cant do a s****.

And the most ridiculous thing about this character is how easy everything with him easy. Easy hit confirm, big window for his combos, you cant drop any combo even if you are half asleep, and you have roadmap for the victory.
F4, put some throws in there, so i get that escape failed , 1,2,1,2 let me steal some turns, let me land that FB, Kbs after KBs, gg wp.

P.P. LawAbidingCitizen,

• KB's need to be more practical like his across the cast.

What ? Didnt you said one post ealier that all character have easy KBs?
You start to contradict to yourself ....
And no, we see what happen when they decide to buff every character in MKXL game. The game became a complete unbalance mess.
If every character have 6 practical KBs like him, and land 99,99% atleast 3 or 4 of them every set, this game will become a complete joke.
They just need to take some of his tools, that he simply doesnt need.
Take away his:
Both Fireball Amplification. - Pressure character doesnt need to be best or one of the best in zoning
FB - this one needs to be universal change across all the roster. Right now for some character they are too powerful.
KB - same as above, and totally remove KBs from throws. Its plain stupid to be punish for teching a throw.
F4 - let him have his option, but make it 12 or 13f.
1,2 - +1 on block
Shaolin Stance - replace Monk Fury with real OH, that is 23-25f.
Flying Dragon Kick - either reduce his range or make it slower
Lower his anti-air option.
Even with this nerfs he will still be strong, just not broken strong.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Ex Low saw is punishable, also f4xbf1 or bf1amp are not true since you can poke out on block and it doesn‘t combo on hit. The 50/50 is fuzzyable. There is only one option worth going for and that is f4nd or f4ndc which costs a bar.

Yes the 50/50 us fuzzyable but there are other options. Unsafe but several require a different response like you showed above.

F41+3
F4xxDB1
F4xxBF1
F4xxDB4
F4 -4 stagger
F4 nomad
F4xxNDC into others

All if these require different responses just like liu Kangs F4 mix
Keep in mind I made the comparison because liu Kangs majority of options off F4 are all punishable but if conditioned you can get away with a lot like many characters.

Liu Kang's punishable options off F4 and F43 (many are reactable) :

Amped high fireball (duckable on first and 3rd hit even if jailed)
Fireball (duckable)
Low fireball (punishable)
Amped low fireball (duckable on last hit more than -20)
F43U3 has a gap 10f
Shaolin stance options are punishable
Parry is reactable and -35 on recovery

So you can see the comparison. Just because they are punishable doesn't make them any less of an option.

I'm not saying any of these characters need nerfs for having options!