1 2 3 drink
If u think liu kang is broke or OP, play some mk9 against cyrax, he gives u a 850 dmg krushing blow for free while your begging to bring back luis kang.
Seriously? I'm just not downplaying him. Keep in mind I've never said Kabal needed nerfs just pointing out his options.JUST STOP COMPARING LIU TO KABAL !!!
You have no knowledge about Kabal at all or just downplaying LK or both.
Dude everyone knows its fuzzyable in Clean cut its a 2f fuzzy not very easy to do and that only works if he is only doing Two options: F22xxBF2/F224 but if he does F2xx or F2 throw or any other option like stagger it doesn't work and its a tight timing.As good as Kabal is, he is not S tier and is not even close to Kang, Not close to Geras, Sonya or Cetrion as well.
And everyone here start understanding what you are trying to do and its not working.
The only thing worth to do from the things you mentioned is f41+3 and ndc though. Of course every special he has is an option but you could also say that about every character and every string or button in the game. Db4,bf1 are definitely not worth it since there is literally no mind game and both are extremely punishable. Nd can work but due to one button cancel options it won‘t for like 99% of the time but I will get more into that now. Liu also creates a stagger mindgame with f4 itself which kabal simply can‘t do.Yes the 50/50 us fuzzyable but there are other options. Unsafe but several require a different response like you showed above.
F4 -4 stagger
F4xxNDC into others
All if these require different responses just like liu Kangs F4 mix
Keep in mind I made the comparison because liu Kangs majority of options off F4 are all punishable but if conditioned you can get away with a lot like many characters.
Liu Kang's punishable options off F4 and F43 (many are reactable) :
Amped high fireball (duckable on first and 3rd hit even if jailed)
Low fireball (punishable)
Amped low fireball (duckable on last hit more than -20)
F43U3 has a gap 10f
Shaolin stance options are punishable
Parry is reactable and -35 on recovery
So you can see the comparison. Just because they are punishable doesn't make them any less of an option.
I'm not saying any of these characters need nerfs for having options!
You're quickly becoming my favorite poster on here. All valid points. I've been worrying about the same thing -- I contend Liu being allowed to remain in a state where he's so blatantly the best/easiest to use that 70% of all KL matches are against the character and he's stomping to 1st place in tournaments from players who weren't doing so with him LITERALLY a month or whenever back prior to him reaching #1 status will actually hurt the interest level in the game in the long run. There's no possible way people are having fun only fighting this character and this is the only character you fight currently. It's not just that he's strong, it's that there's effectively no real barrier to entry to accessing his strength in matches. You don't even have to be optimal. Anybody can hop into matches and start perma-locking you down with variations of 1,2 and f4.All this talk of counterplay and i just watched pros hold all the f4 shit nonstop including the best player in the world.
You can't make comparisons to other characters but just saying x character has the same as Kang so it's fine. You need to take the whole character into account. The only reason I can think you'd bother making a thread with this comparison is to dull the hate toward Kang but it's a pointless comparison.
These other characters don't have a 9 frame with like 4 guessing games, another 9 frame mid, an advancing high string that's plus 3 a bunch of other staggers.
He has 6 KBs (not including d2) that are all very easy to land. A top tier fatal blow that's nigh impossible to punish.
There's plenty of stuff that looks good on paper but dealing with all of his 7228 options up close on reaction is a completely different thing.
Oh and he has the best antiair in the game and great zoning that leads to basically unavoidable chip deaths constantly.
He is too good. These comparisons are dumb. Theory craft as much as you want he's absolutely tearing up the pro scene and ruining KL
If they don't patch this soon the scene is going to take a huge hit.
We came to defend cause you said he had an 8f staggerable mid lmaoA couple people freaked out because I was showing stuff Kabal had. Because many are calling +3 on block from jailing broke on kang. Naturally a few fellow Kabal mains came to defend. What they didn't understand is I'm not saying what he or anyone else has is broke. At least not what I was showing in vids. I don't think they need nerfs.
I actually believe Liu Kang needs his Hurtbox fixed after certain moves so he can be punished properly vs characters with short range D2's but I don't think he deserves anything else.
The bicycle kick also takes 3 amplified hits before the blow is activated the same way Cassie’s nutpunch is which also costs meter. That’s not dumb.I always said that Cassie was strong, but pretty fair to the rest of the cast. She was well balanced as a strong character, but her FB sucks, and she lacks KBs.
She doesnt have throw KBS, which in the current state of the game is probably N1, and to have not one, but two KB in your throw is stand alone OP mechanic.
Cassie also doesnt have KB on her best move, unlike Kang in his F4 move.
Her best KB was Shocker, and its a solo move, you cant combo from it.
I still dont get how she get nerfed, but Kang wasnt touched at all(his low fireball touch was pure nothing).
Geras and Sonya to me was a problem. And still Geras damage is still too high.
JDE, nqh he is not allright. He is Broken. And you forget to menton his Bicycle Kick KB, that you simply land every single set when its matter.
And if you are going to design a easy to play character for newbee, he should be overall good and easy to use, but at high and pro level he shouldnt be a factor at all. Just like Scorpion for example.
Jade is also a good example. She is easy to play, but nothing special at mid-high-pro level of play.
When you design mad easy character, who is OP at all diffucly levels, then you do something really wrong.
That's funny you say that because if you have paid attention to all of my posts in liu kang threads I've openly stated that I only was using Liu Kang for 2 Weeks to better understand the character. It was the OP Challenge I spoke of before. I thought certain characters where broke and high level players told me to pick them up for two weeks.@LawAbidingCitizen
"What the hell do you mean what I'm trying to do?
- This may shock you but I'm just sharing my opinion honestly no agenda here. Just trying to keep every character from getting unjust nerfs."
You realise you just said you have no agenda then literally the next sentence state an agenda.
I think to anyone seeing your proposed changes to Kang that reads more 'i just want my character to get barely nerfed'
It was a typo lol obviously itsa 9f mid and its -4 and its staggerable not only because its that safe but because there are buttons after like F41+3 and specials. Then I was met with downplay. I've never stayed kabal needed nerfs never all I did was show some of his options and visualize he had a +3 on block from jailing.We came to defend cause you said he had an 8f staggerable mid lmao
That's your opinion and that's all.That's funny you say that because if you have paid attention to all of my posts in liu kang threads I've openly stated that I only was using Liu Kang for 2 Weeks to better understand the character. It was the OP Challenge I spoke of before. I thought certain characters where broke and high level players told me to pick them up for two weeks.
I encourage everyone to do the same. It changed my mind.
I dropped LK for Kabal Mean Streak just so you know. And the variation I did use the most was WSL when I used LK.
I just think its dumb players want to Nerf a character because they lack MU experience or Knowledge of the character.
Real players lab there problems away unless its actually game breaking
I know some feel like other characters are very strong or too strong because their character is lacking. Still no reason to Nerf what can be beat in the lab. Those characters should get help.
Thats your opinion and I believe its wrong. You do realize the players you stated got murdered where on final round with less than 15% on both sides it was the closest top 16 ever. Not only that but those very same players stated they got beat by skill not the character.That's your opinion and that's all.
Any 'i don't play this character's chat, we just have to take your word for it.
You think fox and dragon didn't know the matchup. They still held all that shit and got blown out the ass with it. On paper there's counterplay but you have to react to 728 different strong tools and mind games.
He's undefendable. He needs nerfed and not just 1 or 2 frames shaven off f4
And not just that, I frankly don't care what top players say when I can see what's happening with my own eyes. If their statements are at all contradictory to the clear reality they can be dismissed as quickly as you'd dismiss Fox calling Kotal A tier. In 3 games f0xy didn't win a single round. Rewind who could never touch any of these guys in tournaments prior is suddenly a world beater.@LawAbidingCitizen
You REALLY think these players with sponsors are guna go and call out someone and look really bad?
That would put them on blast from so many people shitting on the new Young blood after he just won a tournament.
You're either an idiot or being willfully ignorant to know that these players are not going to say shit in this circumstance.
I main Kabal Mean Streak.Are other people in this thread besides LiuAbidingCitizen actually attempting to argue Liu isn't ridiculous? I can't be bothered to read all of it, but if so, yikes.