LawAbidingCitizen
Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
I'm hearing a lot of complaints about how broke his D1 jailed into 12 is and people complaining that its +3 on block.
Its not that insane and I'll try to illustrate that here.
He has several options after 12 is jailed and can jail into his F4 to stop opponents from ducking or interrupting. But this requires him to do the F4 in one frame otherwise 7f starters/pokes can interrupt him. As it stands even if he does it perfectly 6f pokes can interrupt his F4 after 12 on block so Subs D1, Errons D1 and Geras's D1.
But if he does it late by 1 or two frames 7 frane s can punish. This applies to B1 as well.
So he has other options: 12 and D1 are 7f
12 is a high high so it can be poked, ducked and D2 punished.
D1 gives up his turn and allows some characters to Neutral jump punish follow up or walk back into wiff punish.
But D1 and 12 after 12 has a 3f window and is fairly easy to do if practiced.
As for him having the +3 on block from a jailing poke, several characters have this and can use it in the same ways, in fact some characters have better tools like tick throws, better staggers off it, or even true 50/50's.
Let's not forget everyone has a universal option to shut down plus frames into pokes and normals (Reversal Throw Counter) which comes out off buffer and overrides nearly everything and can't be teched if its a punish or if they are pressing predictable buttons it is a 50/50 and stops Liu's pressure. So if liu does 12 you can just buffer a reversal throw and it will beat his D1 and F4/12 follow-ups in some cases, this is especially true vs Kabals plus on block Nomad Dash Cancels. Every character has this. It means if you use reversal throw after he jails into plus frames he can't mindlessly press buttons he will have to short hop or neutral jump to avoid the throw instead of pressing D1. For other buttons like F4 and 12 it can be hard to do since you have to buffer quickly. It will beat D1 but not others every time if liu does it Frame perfect.
Other High Tiers that have + frames after jailed pokes:
Kabal's s2 is +3 on block and can be jailed from D1 take into account he also has a 8f mid and plenty other tools including true 50/50's and staggers off his 9f Mid:
Jax has a +1 off 12 jailed off D1/D3 and a +9 off F42 which can be jailed off D4 with wavedash and easily in corner
Cetrion, a top 5 character in several well known Tier List's that has a +3 off her s2 that can be jailed off her D1. She has tons of tools to force guess after:
Scorpion has a +2 off his 21 and its +19 on hit allowing him to do many things after and its possible to jail from D1 and very easy to jail off D3:
Geras a top 5 character which can jail into +3 in the corner off D3/D4:
Frost is +5 from a Jailed D1 and has an 11f mid making it require a 6f poke to trade just like LK 9f mid:
Scarlet is +6 from a jailed D1 & D3:
Baraka is +4 off both his pokes and his are the easiest to do:
Nightwolf is plus 1
Shang can be +6 off his auto shimmy after jailing from pokes.
Noob Saibot is +2 off his D3 jailed into s3 and has a 9f Mid that's safe and hit confirmable in Seeing Double.
There are plenty more with plus frames off jailed pokes and restands but I think that should demonstrate Liu is not the only one with this tool nor is it broken to have it especially when more than 5 high tiers have it and almost half the cast have plus frames off pokes.
I just knew some players where unaware that other character had this. A few people where telling me "how no other character had it and it was broken that liu is the only one to do this" except he isn't and its a tight link and to do his F4/B1 he has to be frame perfect. Its absolutely strong but not broke or unique.
Its not that insane and I'll try to illustrate that here.
He has several options after 12 is jailed and can jail into his F4 to stop opponents from ducking or interrupting. But this requires him to do the F4 in one frame otherwise 7f starters/pokes can interrupt him. As it stands even if he does it perfectly 6f pokes can interrupt his F4 after 12 on block so Subs D1, Errons D1 and Geras's D1.
But if he does it late by 1 or two frames 7 frane s can punish. This applies to B1 as well.
So he has other options: 12 and D1 are 7f
12 is a high high so it can be poked, ducked and D2 punished.
D1 gives up his turn and allows some characters to Neutral jump punish follow up or walk back into wiff punish.
But D1 and 12 after 12 has a 3f window and is fairly easy to do if practiced.
As for him having the +3 on block from a jailing poke, several characters have this and can use it in the same ways, in fact some characters have better tools like tick throws, better staggers off it, or even true 50/50's.
Let's not forget everyone has a universal option to shut down plus frames into pokes and normals (Reversal Throw Counter) which comes out off buffer and overrides nearly everything and can't be teched if its a punish or if they are pressing predictable buttons it is a 50/50 and stops Liu's pressure. So if liu does 12 you can just buffer a reversal throw and it will beat his D1 and F4/12 follow-ups in some cases, this is especially true vs Kabals plus on block Nomad Dash Cancels. Every character has this. It means if you use reversal throw after he jails into plus frames he can't mindlessly press buttons he will have to short hop or neutral jump to avoid the throw instead of pressing D1. For other buttons like F4 and 12 it can be hard to do since you have to buffer quickly. It will beat D1 but not others every time if liu does it Frame perfect.
Other High Tiers that have + frames after jailed pokes:
Kabal's s2 is +3 on block and can be jailed from D1 take into account he also has a 8f mid and plenty other tools including true 50/50's and staggers off his 9f Mid:
Jax has a +1 off 12 jailed off D1/D3 and a +9 off F42 which can be jailed off D4 with wavedash and easily in corner
Cetrion, a top 5 character in several well known Tier List's that has a +3 off her s2 that can be jailed off her D1. She has tons of tools to force guess after:
Scorpion has a +2 off his 21 and its +19 on hit allowing him to do many things after and its possible to jail from D1 and very easy to jail off D3:
Geras a top 5 character which can jail into +3 in the corner off D3/D4:
Frost is +5 from a Jailed D1 and has an 11f mid making it require a 6f poke to trade just like LK 9f mid:
Scarlet is +6 from a jailed D1 & D3:
Baraka is +4 off both his pokes and his are the easiest to do:
Nightwolf is plus 1
Shang can be +6 off his auto shimmy after jailing from pokes.
Noob Saibot is +2 off his D3 jailed into s3 and has a 9f Mid that's safe and hit confirmable in Seeing Double.
There are plenty more with plus frames off jailed pokes and restands but I think that should demonstrate Liu is not the only one with this tool nor is it broken to have it especially when more than 5 high tiers have it and almost half the cast have plus frames off pokes.
I just knew some players where unaware that other character had this. A few people where telling me "how no other character had it and it was broken that liu is the only one to do this" except he isn't and its a tight link and to do his F4/B1 he has to be frame perfect. Its absolutely strong but not broke or unique.
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