Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[Lex Luthor II]

So... Raijin has great midscreen damage and safety now... aside from teleport there really is no reason to use Thunderwave now

Is that last combo unsafe though? As theirs no way to hitconfirm into the staff launcher?

 

[Enexemander]

You can hit confirm the staff launcher off any hit confirmable string. This is a legit mid screen launcher now. So the easiest would be B1,2 Staff Launch -> ender.
That's going off what's possible in PC right now. I won't have the patch for a few days to lab the optimals.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Looks like Raijin is back on the menu, boys!

 

[Mandolore1123]

He does more damage than Thunder Wave now lol. So the only good thing about Thunder Wave is now Teleport.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Discharge is still good @6f. Was using it to interrupt my buddies Lao f1 stagger earlier.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Sub in whatever other starters you want:

Mid Screen (Female OK)
f4~db4, f2, 12~db2 = 345 dmg 1 bar
f4~db4, f2, 12~fly = 335 dmg 1 bar and corner carry

Mid Screen (Men Only)
b31~db4amp*, f2, 12~db2 = 339 dmg (fly for girls, 329)

* this will not launch in the corner, so Thunder Wave has the edge here off low starter

Corner (Female OK)
f4~db4amp, f3, 243~db2 = 364dmg 1 bar (390 2 bars)
f4~db4amp, f3, 243~df2 = 343dmg and hard knockdown 1 bar

Sad part is none of the Raijin changes can be used for KB combos.

 

[BRAZILIAN SHEEP]

Guys....Am I crazy or Raijin now has the potential to be a very annoying variation to deal with.

I tested electric burst now and you literally can press any shit and cancel into EB and you are safe, with cheap damage.

We literally can spam f4 EB, F2 EB allll day.

 

[ValeDJ]

As a Raijin main...I'm all over this. Will test out the discharge combos in a min

 

[DDutchguy]

Guys....Am I crazy or Raijin now has the potential to be a very annoying variation to deal with.

I tested electric burst now and you literally can press any shit and cancel into EB and you are safe, with cheap damage.

We literally can spam f4 EB, F2 EB allll day.

Sometimes Electric Burst might have a flawless block gap if you special cancel it, keep that in mind.

 

[just_2swift]

I want to see some discharge combos I'm getting hype

 

[ValeDJ]

No more discharge combos. Unless the timing is even tighter?

 

[DDutchguy]

No more discharge combos. Unless the timing is even tighter?

There was a note about how discharge now has the same reaction on hit as in the air. Pre-patch, discharge was -5 on hit on the ground but +15 on hit when the opponent was in a juggle state. This +15 on hit is apparently like +3 to +5 on hit now according to some people in the Raiden discord. Shame we lost the swaggy combos, but I think it's for the best as Raiden wpuld have been able to do like 30-35% combos into a free mixup post-patc if Discharge was still +15. Basically, the Discharge restand is now in line with other characters' restands.

 

[ValeDJ]

There was a note about how discharge now has the same reaction on hit as in the air. Pre-patch, discharge was -5 on hit on the ground but +15 on hit when the opponent was in a juggle state. This +15 on hit is apparently like +3 to +5 on hit now according to some people in the Raiden discord. Shame we lost the swaggy combos, but I think it's for the best as Raiden wpuld have been able to do like 30-35% combos into a free mixup post-patc if Discharge was still +15. Basically, the Discharge restand is now in line with other characters' restands.

Thanks for the frames, I was trying to find the old frame data haha. Yea its virtually impossible to do some serious swag combos in the corner, but at least we can get some restand mindgames going.

Having said that...f4 into df2 with the buff? My goodness that feels disgusting.

At least Johnny Show Stopper has swag now

 

[just_2swift]

No more discharge combos. Unless the timing is even tighter?

Damn

 

[Mandolore1123]

There was a note about how discharge now has the same reaction on hit as in the air. Pre-patch, discharge was -5 on hit on the ground but +15 on hit when the opponent was in a juggle state. This +15 on hit is apparently like +3 to +5 on hit now according to some people in the Raiden discord. Shame we lost the swaggy combos, but I think it's for the best as Raiden wpuld have been able to do like 30-35% combos into a free mixup post-patc if Discharge was still +15. Basically, the Discharge restand is now in line with other characters' restands.

Doing a 30% combo into a +5 restand is still pretty amazing honestly

 

[ValeDJ]

Doing a 30% combo into a +5 restand is still pretty amazing honestly

Agreed, super good. I cant get over how amazing the df2 with buff on is...I've just played a Jacqui player...f4 df2 for days!

 

[Mandolore1123]

We CANNOT combo AMP DB4 from B31 in the corner, so we have to either end in DB2 or BF3 or discharge

 

[Mandolore1123]

I think I may have to retract my statements on Raijin. Need more time to test him out in matches. Even though his damage with buff and safety are undeniable, the fact is you aren’t always going to have buff out. If you bring it out after a knockdown you sacrifice oki. So for now Thunder Wave retains its allure of mobility and consistent damage, while Raijin is more defensive with better safety once buff comes out.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

Doing a 30% combo into a +5 restand is still pretty amazing honestly

Also can delay the amp when using as a restand. I don't know why but it's there.

 

[Raidenwins]

I am confused by the buff to Lightning Strike, i.e. it supposedly tracks when amplified. I tried to do that in the lab yesterday and i didn't notice any difference from the way it worked before. I tried to AMP on block, but it didn't seem to work. Has anybody tested this and if so, how does it work?

 

[Mandolore1123]

I am confused by the buff to Lightning Strike, i.e. it supposedly tracks when amplified. I tried to do that in the lab yesterday and i didn't notice any difference from the way it worked before. I tried to AMP on block, but it didn't seem to work. Has anybody tested this and if so, how does it work?

It just means that the second hit won’t whiff anymore when the opponent is airborne or in some other place that’s not directly under the tip of the move. Ie the move still sucks balls, like it really really sucks. The amp does nothing but more damage and it brings the opponent towards you, which is sort of counterintuitive for a full screen move meant to zone but hey it’s Raiden

 

[Mandolore1123]

From what I’ve played against. Any competent Liu Kang or any character with a decent projectile still gives Raijin trouble since you can’t effectively counter zone with your slow projectiles and you have to work your way in with buff on. By the time you get in, those same characters also have better up close tools than you do (Liu Kang and Johnny Cage can play the stagger meta much better than we do). Though I suppose that’s more of a MK11 problem, the characters with good up close tools somehow also have great projectiles, but the characters that aren’t all that good up close also have bad projectiles to make things worse.

Good thing is Raijin can still reversal punish the F43 string, discharge can trade with his low fireball if you can time it and it stuffs the U3 portion so it’s a good all round counter to it. That is until they start staggering and you try to poke out and eat their 9f mid to the shin into KB into big damage.

 

[Raidenwins]

It just means that the second hit won’t whiff anymore when the opponent is airborne or in some other place that’s not directly under the tip of the move. Ie the move still sucks balls, like it really really sucks. The amp does nothing but more damage and it brings the opponent towards you, which is sort of counterintuitive for a full screen move meant to zone but hey it’s Raiden

So Lightning Strike is still pretty much useless. I was envisioning something like the following, if the opponent is further away from the spot where it hits, it would travel on the ground until it reaches their location. That's what I think when I hear "tracking".

I am happy for Raijin buffs, but I don't see the logic in nerfing his far teleport. It's not like Thunder Wave Raiden was highly used or anything. Heck, I've barely seen it in tournament play. And online, almost no one plays him. I am having to look for Raiden players on here and then schedule times when we can meet up on PSN and play a few matches, just so i can face another Raiden player. It's kind of sad how incomplete of a character Raiden is in MK11. He is about as bad now as MK9 Raiden was towards the end of that game, after NRS was done nerfing him into oblivion. Sigh. This is making me miss Thunder God Raiden from MKX that much more.

 

[Mandolore1123]

So Lightning Strike is still pretty much useless. I was envisioning something like the following, if the opponent is further away from the spot where it hits, it would travel on the ground until it reaches their location. That's what I think when I hear "tracking".

I am happy for Raijin buffs, but I don't see the logic in nerfing his far teleport. It's not like Thunder Wave Raiden was highly used or anything. Heck, I've barely seen it in tournament play. And online, almost no one plays him. I am having to look for Raiden players on here and then schedule times when we can meet up on PSN and play a few matches, just so i can face another Raiden player. It's kind of sad how incomplete of a character Raiden is in MK11. He is about as bad now as MK9 Raiden was towards the end of that game, after NRS was done nerfing him into oblivion. Sigh. This is making me miss Thunder God Raiden from MKX that much more.

Lightning strike is good in certain MUs where they are unable to reversal punish it. I use it to zone out Kung Lao along with BF1 to force a teleport and full combo punish. Since it covers the forward air space very well you can zone effectively with it along with bolt. There are also several instances that guarantee a lightning strike for chip like after a midscreen superman (air is a frametrap and grounded is guaranteed) and after hitting BF1 AMP. However, Geras’ sand trap, Cetrion’s geyser and Liu Kang’s Dragon Kick can all reversal punish it from full screen. (I imagine all the shadow kicks and nitro kicks can also punish). Therefore in many MUs it’s best to use it sparingly.

 

[MKF30]

I wouldn't say LS is useless, but didn't get nearly the buff I expected either, it's good from FAR out zoning I mean far like full screen, great for zoning and chip damage though I think they should have made this move faster at least I don't even see how this tracks them much better than before to be honest. They really botched his TW over hopefully future patches he'll get buffed in this variation more. They nerfed the recovery by a few frames on his far teleport, why IDK lol. It wasn't even an issue, it's not like it was Scorps busted....NRS really fucked him hard in this game. I use TW but it's an effort to win with this variation. I'm happy for Raijin players though, it's just not my style and Raiden IMO should always have his damn teleport.