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wsj515

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
ATIWAB said:
"as soon as I saw you using my example as a counter-point I got sensitive and assumed you were being defensive because I assume all contrary opinions are conflict"

How's your relationship with your dad?
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You're analysis is already wrong, don't be both wrong and an asshole.

I won't go so far and say that bf2MB is a get in free tool, but it's really solid. Untechable throws (quad grab) are fundamentally just good, KB or not, and that's forgetting the fact that its damage increases with arm heat. It also nets us higher damage conversions than GB. I can't wait for the day that people start trying to flawless block, I'll get free staggers, shimmies and throws all day.

Good for you though, you brought to the discussion s4 punish, something that I'm sure 95% of Jax players found after labbing 5 min on day 1.


Regarding Big D vs. Toxin - I love Big D, he's a clear people's champ and I don't want to disrespect, but his Jax is really sub par, I don't think we can really look at his matches as defining of the character.
 
ATIWAB

ATIWAB

Mortal
"you are analysis is wrong, here's four paragraphs unrelated to anything you said that continues to ignore how anyone on earth thinks using even one bar for a non-KB QG is better than a normal throw that does more damage without costing resources except m-muh techs"

Wasting bars on any QG that isn't trying to get the KB is moronic. You're throwing away your safe get-in ability (BF2MB), your wakeup resources, your Amp BF4 damage on AA, etc for less damage than a normal throw, which you can also build to KB. QG isn't good. If QG were good, the players that people point to as being "great Jax players" would use it more than three times in 22m of footage, and would use it for more than just to get the KB off of it before abandoning it for the entire rest of the game.

It was good when it had more tick options. It's not good now.

Re: S4 punish, you can go back through this entire thread and note that it's not mentioned post-patch. It's never mentioned as a free 41% on any frame advantage over 13 that isn't affected by low profile. It's the only guaranteed way to actually even get a QG since you can get poked out of the D1 block confirm or low profiled out of other block confirms like the D3.

"btw Big D's Jax isn't even good lol"

Get your head out of your ass, you aren't a good enough player to ride in on such a high horse.

"Don't be wrong and an asshole," bud.
 
freerf245

freerf245

11 11 11 11
BF2 Mb being safe is huge and i’m angry I am just now figuring this out. This gives Jax a safe d1 special, which adds to his pressure game immensely.
 
wsj515

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
ATIWAB said:
"you are analysis is wrong, here's four paragraphs unrelated to anything you said that continues to ignore how anyone on earth thinks using even one bar for a non-KB QG is better than a normal throw that does more damage without costing resources except m-muh techs"

Wasting bars on any QG that isn't trying to get the KB is moronic. You're throwing away your safe get-in ability (BF2MB), your wakeup resources, your Amp BF4 damage on AA, etc for less damage than a normal throw, which you can also build to KB. QG isn't good. If QG were good, the players that people point to as being "great Jax players" would use it more than three times in 22m of footage, and would use it for more than just to get the KB off of it before abandoning it for the entire rest of the game.

It was good when it had more tick options. It's not good now.

Re: S4 punish, you can go back through this entire thread and note that it's not mentioned post-patch. It's never mentioned as a free 41% on any frame advantage over 13 that isn't affected by low profile. It's the only guaranteed way to actually even get a QG since you can get poked out of the D1 block confirm or low profiled out of other block confirms like the D3.

"btw Big D's Jax isn't even good lol"

Get your head out of your ass, you aren't a good enough player to ride in on such a high horse.

"Don't be wrong and an asshole," bud.
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Not one person said you should be spending meter on quad grab outside of getting the KB, this is practically a straw man because no one is arguing this lol. That doesn't mean it isn't good, you should still keep using it after you KB, just don't spend the meter. You're basically arguing with yourself here.

Big D is a better player than me, no doubt, but his Jax isn't going to be giving us any insight into how to play the character, or how to approach matchups.

Your last statement is incredibly ironic given your tone throughout this thread. I don't think anyone can help you if you think a tick throw is bad. You should probably just pick a different character.
 
ATIWAB

ATIWAB

Mortal
wsj515 said:
Not one person said you should be spending meter on quad grab outside of getting the KB
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And without the meter it's a 7% damage command grab with a DBF1 input that you can reliably use off of what, two ticks max vs a 14% damage regular throw with potential to KB with full heat on a one button input and no resource usage and your argument against it is "b-but throw teching" lmao

QB is bad since the patch. The available setups for it are bad. The D1 block "setup" can be poked out of by a competing D1 before it even comes out. It has zero practical use outside of the KB. It's not a good special anymore. This isn't that complicated.

If they reverted the patch changes to include all the old tick setups, it'd be great. It's not great.

I don't think anyone can help you if you think a tick throw is bad.
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It was good when it was actually a "tick" throw, pre-patch. Given the options you actually have available to you now to tick off of, it's just a bad command grab with trash damage outside of the KB.
 
wsj515

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
ATIWAB said:
And without the meter it's a 7% damage command grab with a DBF1 input that you can reliably use off of what, two ticks max vs a 14% damage regular throw with potential to KB with full heat on a one button input and no resource usage and your argument against it is "b-but throw teching" lmao

QB is bad since the patch. The available setups for it are bad. The D1 block "setup" can be poked out of by a competing D1 before it even comes out. It has zero practical use outside of the KB. It's not a good special anymore. This isn't that complicated.

If they reverted the patch changes to include all the old tick setups, it'd be great. It's not great.



It was good when it was actually a "tick" throw, pre-patch. Given the options you actually have available to you now to tick off of, it's just a bad command grab with trash damage outside of the KB.
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Wait, you do know that the 2nd input of quad grab doesn't use meter right? You do just as much as a regular grab, with no resources - 12% no heat, 16% with 2 heat. Would be pretty embarrassing if you actually thought quad grab did 7 percent. You cannot poke out - what you're thinking of is the opponent neutral ducking the grab, then poking. They'll get grabbed if they try to reversal d1 your d1. I shouldn't need to explain why this is important and the mind games it creates.

DBF1 input is not hard, but also irrelevant, especially if we're talking about Jax's viability at the highest level.

Its clear you don't really understand the character (considering the 7% thing and poking out of quad grab, unless you were being purposely disingenuous) so I don't think I'll be wasting my time further arguing this with you, but if anyone else wants to discuss the mind games around command grab I'm happy to.
 
freerf245

freerf245

11 11 11 11
ATIWAB said:
It was good when it was actually a "tick" throw, pre-patch. Given the options you actually have available to you now to tick off of, it's just a bad command grab with trash damage outside of the KB.
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Agreed. I only use it once a game for the krushing blow. Doesn’t mean it’s bad. Eating 30%+ just for blocking is pretty crazy, and he almost always has access to it considering he doesn’t really need meter for anything else besides bf2mb. It’s really strong, but using outside of going for the krushing blow is not worth the risk.
 
ShArp

ShArp

Dedicated Broly main
I can't help but laugh from this guy. "Jax's cmd grab is trash after patch"

Except it's not and I can't imagine myself playing Hunker Down without staggering my opponents into ticks from D1, D3, Jump in3 into cmd grab instead of F33, F2 stagger into cmd grab, baiting roll ins and then going in for D1 into tick or raw cmd grab.

EVEN THE BASIC D1 check - you hit them, and they are forced to block since they know u can check them with a 9F MID (on ur turn it's even faster) - but you go for another D1 on block so that you can tick throw them. Same with D3's.

Not to mention not finishing a string on hit so they are at disadvantage and once their begin to block after recovering from my hit - it's a D1 into tick time.
Mixing Jump in 3 with raw cmd grab. Because u can go F33 after Jump in3 anytime and blow them up if they keep trying to poke u.

Gunny - probably the best Jax atm - keeps doing these things agains NRS top players as a real evidence but this forum "pro" still keeps denying things. Fucking lul.

Here's his recent set with defense GOD Djt and he kept cmd throwing poor soul do death from D1.

I have dealt with this guy before - even offered him sets so that his "theories" could be proven wrong, but he's just not worth your time guys.
As @wsj515 mentioned in previous post - the guy doesn't even know that they CAN'T counter poke once they block your D1 and you go into tick throw. Because CMD throw beats their D1.

Oh and notice this guy loves to insult others since he can't provide a single valid point lol.
 
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freerf245

freerf245

11 11 11 11
I just think the risk/reward is much scarier now outside of going for the krushing blow. I think his regular throws are just as effective, but with less risk of being -100 and eating a d2 krushing blow. Both his forward throw and back throw lead to a Geras type throw loop. Makes his mixup game kinda nutty.
 
freerf245

freerf245

11 11 11 11
Like every time he grabs you or hits you with f33 1+3 it leads to a nutty shimmy game where they have to guess between both throws or f33/f2 mixup, and if they get hit again it leads to the same situation. You gotta take in the bs wakeup options into account, but Jax’s oki is pretty crazy.
 
wsj515

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
Just to make sure, because a lot of logic in this thread has been thrown out the window, people are using quad grab(no bar no KB) as their typical damage ender right?? Quad grab does the most damage, but gotcha can and should be used to reposition or restand.
 
freerf245

freerf245

11 11 11 11
wsj515 said:
Just to make sure, because a lot of logic in this thread has been thrown out the window, people are using quad grab(no bar no KB) as their typical damage ender right?? Quad grab does the most damage, but gotcha can and should be used to reposition or restand.
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Quad Grab midscreen. Gotcha/bf34 in the corner.
 
Halfnha1f

Halfnha1f

Learn From This
not sure if im way late on this but ill post it in case not everybody knows. you can get a b2 kb punish on kanos amp air ball. probably more useful for the hunker down variation for midscreen combo potential. you have to duck block the first hit of the kano ball and neutral duck the second one to make it whiff.

 
FreshPrinceOfPine

FreshPrinceOfPine

You think you're bad?
Do you guys think Jax is in top 5 in regards to just krushing blows? Seriously every single one is useful and nets you 350dmg. With fully heated arms, the opponent has to be wary of the 1+3 ones and the forward throw, which is kind of a mix up in of itself. B2 is confirmed off ji2 and is a great wakeup whiff punisher. 350 (400 with heat) CB KB just bc the opponent blocks. And bf34 is just a great way to get damage in. Personally I haven't landed the bf2 KB bc I teeter between GB and HD and forget about it often

But Jaxs come back potential is ridiculous. He has one of the best FBs in the game, which then puts him in a position to get the 1+3 or throw KB. In an ideal situation: land FB, throw or 1+3 KB, then QB KB, then ta da, 1150 dmg

Jaxs KBs keep him at a higher tier imo, and it makes me wonder how good Johnny would be if he had such practical ones also
 
freerf245

freerf245

11 11 11 11
I know it’s been asked a million times, but does ANYONE have the klassic arms yet? They’re all I want lol.
 
freerf245

freerf245

11 11 11 11
FreshPrinceOfPine said:
Do you guys think Jax is in top 5 in regards to just krushing blows? Seriously every single one is useful and nets you 350dmg. With fully heated arms, the opponent has to be wary of the 1+3 ones and the forward throw, which is kind of a mix up in of itself. B2 is confirmed off ji2 and is a great wakeup whiff punisher. 350 (400 with heat) CB KB just bc the opponent blocks. And bf34 is just a great way to get damage in. Personally I haven't landed the bf2 KB bc I teeter between GB and HD and forget about it often

But Jaxs come back potential is ridiculous. He has one of the best FBs in the game, which then puts him in a position to get the 1+3 or throw KB. In an ideal situation: land FB, throw or 1+3 KB, then QB KB, then ta da, 1150 dmg

Jaxs KBs keep him at a higher tier imo, and it makes me wonder how good Johnny would be if he had such practical ones also
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He’s got a top 3 FB for sure. His krushing blows are up there too.
 
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