Jax General Discussion

[wsj515]

Can anyone tell me what his combos are for his double missile crushing blow in his HD variation?

you need to get it off of a d2 KB, b2 KB, or AA j1 or s1 mid screen, in the corner you can do it off basically any conversion into d12 d12xxbf3(4)

No heat required:
AA j1/s1 (micro dash) 1 (micodash) 12xxbf3(4)
j2 b2(KB) 1 (micodash) 12xxbf3(4)
d2(KB) 1 (micodash) 12xxbf3(4)

for raw b2(KB) mid screen, you don't generate enough heat with just the listed combo above, so you need the tiniest amount of heat before you start. Someone let me know if there are more optimal combos.

 

[WhamBamThanxSam]

Is it not safe in grinning Barrett? Oh yeah it’s completely different lmao

Nope it's not. I'm not a great player since I haven't much time to play this game (kids, house remodel, etc) but I'm starting to think Hunker Down is much better. I've been using strictly Grinnin' Barret and definitely has its issues.

 

[WhamBamThanxSam]

This really does point out Jax's limitations in neutral with HD variation. Basically everything is F2 mix, F33, or jump-in, which gets easy to predict and once Flawless Block use starts getting more widespread he's going to be considered much lower tier IMO.

Notice he only used Quad Grab three times in the entire set and it wasn't even fully extended any time, just did it off a D12 in the corner once for 70, then raw the other two times for 70 and 120. It's a weak ass part of his kit because it's too risky to cancel into without a guaranteed block confirm or S4 hit confirm, and hard to make either of those confirms in time online, but easy to whiff punish if you accidentally up inputting it on an incompatible hit confirm. It's barely even reasonably considered a "tick throw" at this point, on two occasions in the match he could've done literally the same thing with 1+3 throw and gotten more damage.



Yeah, but the actual output on it is... weird.

Depending on your distance and when/how many times you hit your R1 it sometimes will totally skip the first hit (the mid) and go straight to the throw, which means it can get ducked/low profiled and punished. If they do block the mid, you get pushed away too far for the throw to connect on Amp.

I'm not a big fan of it because of the inconsistency, but it's safe on block, yeah.

Let me preface my comment by saying I'm not that good at this game, but Big D's Jax literally looks like a day 1 short lab

"you are analysis is wrong, here's four paragraphs unrelated to anything you said that continues to ignore how anyone on earth thinks using even one bar for a non-KB QG is better than a normal throw that does more damage without costing resources except m-muh techs"

Wasting bars on any QG that isn't trying to get the KB is moronic. You're throwing away your safe get-in ability (BF2MB), your wakeup resources, your Amp BF4 damage on AA, etc for less damage than a normal throw, which you can also build to KB. QG isn't good. If QG were good, the players that people point to as being "great Jax players" would use it more than three times in 22m of footage, and would use it for more than just to get the KB off of it before abandoning it for the entire rest of the game.

It was good when it had more tick options. It's not good now.

Re: S4 punish, you can go back through this entire thread and note that it's not mentioned post-patch. It's never mentioned as a free 41% on any frame advantage over 13 that isn't affected by low profile. It's the only guaranteed way to actually even get a QG since you can get poked out of the D1 block confirm or low profiled out of other block confirms like the D3.

"btw Big D's Jax isn't even good lol"

Get your head out of your ass, you aren't a good enough player to ride in on such a high horse.

"Don't be wrong and an asshole," bud.

I'm not good at this game and even I can see that Big D's Jax is not that great. If he puts in time with him then I'm sure it will be great, but lets not act like that video was some high level Jax.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

1. I love Big D, was a big fan of his Nightwolf in MK9.
2. He could probably body me with his hour 1 any character.

That said, his jax was garbage and not indicative of what Jax at high level would/should look like.

 

[UPR_Nova]

There are only 2 top tier Jax players at the moment in Gunshow and Dab and neither have made it to tournament. Until they make it out, there probably won't be a Jax rep placing high in any tournament. Watching anyone else's Jax is worthless, considering as you watch Gunshow progress, he is changing the meta of Jax because he is also morphing the meta of the game. Him setting up flawless block opportunities for himself is next level, and is the means for the most damage for Jax at the moment. If you can't punish certain mistakes hard, you set your opponent up to make different mistakes that you can annihilate.

I don't think, at least I hope, that nobody is over-utilizing the command grab. It's something that is nice to have and is always a positive, but it's not something that can or should be abused. His throw game should be based around the heated arms and the forward throw KB that we get. This allows more staggers because of your opponent throw scouting and it opens up more opportunities for back throw. The command grab is honestly a bonus on top of everything else. If you're relying on it, you aren't thinking about everything else too much, and in my opinion, that's the wrong way to go.

Also, saying Jax isn't top is just false for reasons both @STB Sgt Reed and I posted here.

 

[UPR_Nova]

you need to get it off of a d2 KB, b2 KB, or AA j1 or s1 mid screen, in the corner you can do it off basically any conversion into d12 d12xxbf3(4)

No heat required:
AA j1/s1 (micro dash) 1 (micodash) 12xxbf3(4)
j2 b2(KB) 1 (micodash) 12xxbf3(4)
d2(KB) 1 (micodash) 12xxbf3(4)

for raw b2(KB) mid screen, you don't generate enough heat with just the listed combo above, so you need the tiniest amount of heat before you start. Someone let me know if there are more optimal combos.

I'm actually going to lab a bit tonight but I'm pretty sure that b2, f2, d12, d12 is the way to go. Maybe you could do something like b2, f2, 12, d12 or even b2, j1, f2, d12, d12 but that's legit what I was going to lab later. I've seen Gunshow begin certain AA combos with f2, so it was just something that I was going to take to the lab and try to get some more damage in certain situations. Might scale though, so take all that with a grain of salt.

 

[wsj515]

I'm actually going to lab a bit tonight but I'm pretty sure that b2, f2, d12, d12 is the way to go. Maybe you could do something like b2, f2, 12, d12 or even b2, j1, f2, d12, d12 but that's legit what I was going to lab later. I've seen Gunshow begin certain AA combos with f2, so it was just something that I was going to take to the lab and try to get some more damage in certain situations. Might scale though, so take all that with a grain of salt.

Are you talking about in the corner? I'd be shocked if any of those work mid screen.

 

[UPR_Nova]

Are you talking about in the corner? I'd be shocked if any of those work mid screen.

Yeah I actually labbed them last night. Midscreen you can get b2(KB), f2, d12, d12xxdbf1 or b2(KB), f2, 12, d12xxdbf1. I kinda gave up on the b2 after that because that is for sure the optimal unless you can get something with standing 4 or something silly. You can also do 1(AA), 1, 1, 12, d12 with the first standing 1 being an anti-air. I don't think I'm going to be incorporating f2 immediately because it needs to be really solid to pull that one off but the other ones aren't bad at all. Just takes a little practice because we aren't used to extending combos so much with Jax...typically don't need to. Basically, you can get 1, 1, 12, d12 or 1, 1, d12, d12 after any launcher midscreen. After a f2 AA you need to do 1, 12, d12. That is really tight though, especially in the heat of a match so I tend to lean on f2(AA), 12, d12.

It all depends on the KB combo you are trying to get too. For a command grab KB, these work just fine; you only need to cancel the d12 into command grab and get well above 40% for an AA or well above 50% for a b2 KB. For the heated arms KB, you need to end in 12. You may need to even shorten the combo depending on height and all that good stuff. The most consistent I found was the one everyone knows - starter, 1, 12.

Corner, I don't have a clue. For some other good stuff, air-to-air jk leads to KB if you are ready for it. j3(air-to-air), f2xxdbf1 for over 40%. You can also get a KB off of a high height d2 with d2, d12xxdbf1 for over 40%. I believe these are over 40% but they might be over 50%. I don't really remember these situational ones exactly. You can get the same AA punishes with d3 as well. So d3(AA), 1, 12, d12xxdbf1.

I feel like I'm missing something that I found but that is for sure the majority of it all. Some/most is probably known, but I thought I would list it all for completeness.

Edit: If you want to land the bf34 KB, you should use j2, b2(KB), 1, 12xxbf34. If you want to land the command grab KB, you should use j2, b2(KB), f2, d12, d12xxdbf1. I probably should have stressed that. And there are micro dashes in between everything for the most part. I like to mash forward while I'm doing all of this stuff so it's less likely to drop.

 

[6ixty9]

Are there dashes in b2(kb), f2, d12, d12 bf3,4 ?? I couldnt get any of it to connect after the f2

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

yeah there's dashes.

Personally I don't use d12 into combos. Fuck that jazz.

B2 (KB) dash 1 dash 12 quad grab (KB)
B2 (KB) dash 1 dash 12 heated arms (KB)

may not do as much damage. But I rarely drop them.

 

[6ixty9]

Ah ok. Yeah I can't get anything with dashes. I just do 4, bf4 lol. Not the most damage but its 100%

 

[UPR_Nova]

Are there dashes in b2(kb), f2, d12, d12 bf3,4 ?? I couldnt get any of it to connect after the f2

I also don't think there is enough height to land bf34 after all of that. If you want to land the bf34 KB, you should use b2(KB), 1, 12xxbf34. If you want to land the command grab KB, you should use b2(KB), f2, d12, d12xxdbf1. I probably should have stressed that in my post. And there are micro dashes in between everything for the most part. I like to mash forward while I'm doing all of this stuff so it's less likely to drop.

 

[Down 2]

I also don't think there is enough height to land bf34 after all of that. If you want to land the bf34 KB, you should use b2(KB), 1, 12xxbf34. If you want to land the command grab KB, you should use b2(KB), f2, d12, d12xxdbf1. I probably should have stressed that in my post. And there are micro dashes in between everything for the most part. I like to mash forward while I'm doing all of this stuff so it's less likely to drop.

B2, F2, D12, D12, Quad Slam is my go to combo its definitely possible you just have to hit the F2 at a good height and do a microdash after it

 

[UPR_Nova]

B2, F2, D12, D12, Quad Slam is my go to combo its definitely possible you just have to hit the F2 at a good height and do a microdash after it

Yeah that's the optimal. I mention the bf34 not being possible. Pretty much everything is possible into dbf1 as long as you have gravity.

 

[wsj515]

Yeah I actually labbed them last night. Midscreen you can get b2(KB), f2, d12, d12xxdbf1 or b2(KB), f2, 12, d12xxdbf1. I kinda gave up on the b2 after that because that is for sure the optimal unless you can get something with standing 4 or something silly. You can also do 1(AA), 1, 1, 12, d12 with the first standing 1 being an anti-air. I don't think I'm going to be incorporating f2 immediately because it needs to be really solid to pull that one off but the other ones aren't bad at all. Just takes a little practice because we aren't used to extending combos so much with Jax...typically don't need to. Basically, you can get 1, 1, 12, d12 or 1, 1, d12, d12 after any launcher midscreen. After a f2 AA you need to do 1, 12, d12. That is really tight though, especially in the heat of a match so I tend to lean on f2(AA), 12, d12.

It all depends on the KB combo you are trying to get too. For a command grab KB, these work just fine; you only need to cancel the d12 into command grab and get well above 40% for an AA or well above 50% for a b2 KB. For the heated arms KB, you need to end in 12. You may need to even shorten the combo depending on height and all that good stuff. The most consistent I found was the one everyone knows - starter, 1, 12.

Corner, I don't have a clue. For some other good stuff, air-to-air jk leads to KB if you are ready for it. j3(air-to-air), f2xxdbf1 for over 40%. You can also get a KB off of a high height d2 with d2, d12xxdbf1 for over 40%. I believe these are over 40% but they might be over 50%. I don't really remember these situational ones exactly. You can get the same AA punishes with d3 as well. So d3(AA), 1, 12, d12xxdbf1.

I feel like I'm missing something that I found but that is for sure the majority of it all. Some/most is probably known, but I thought I would list it all for completeness.

Edit: If you want to land the bf34 KB, you should use b2(KB), 1, 12xxbf34. If you want to land the command grab KB, you should use b2(KB), f2, d12, d12xxdbf1. I probably should have stressed that. And there are micro dashes in between everything for the most part. I like to mash forward while I'm doing all of this stuff so it's less likely to drop.

Oh I think you miss-read my post. Matador was asking for the bf3 KB mid screen, not general midscreen combos.

 

[UPR_Nova]

Oh I think you miss-read my post. Matador was asking for the bf3 KB mid screen, not general midscreen combos.

RIP lol. My bad...I definitely misread.

 

[wsj515]

RIP lol. My bad...I definitely misread.

Also, in your edit where you do mention bf3 KB, just remember that you already need heat for the combo you listed, you do not generate enough for 2 shots with that combo alone.

 

[UPR_Nova]

Also, in your edit where you do mention bf3 KB, just remember that you already need heat for the combo you listed, you do not generate enough for 2 shots with that combo alone.

Nice looking. That should include a j2. I need to change that.

 

[ATIWAB]

As @wsj515 mentioned in previous post - the guy doesn't even know that they CAN'T counter poke once they block your D1 and you go into tick throw. Because CMD throw beats their D1.

Oh and notice this guy loves to insult others since he can't provide a single valid point lol.

You realize a video was posted earlier in this same thread, right?

Yes, you can poke out of it after block.

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Go back to the lab.

 

[J0hnnyMn]

Pretty new to TYM and NRS games in general, so im not sure if i should drop this question here, but does anyone know whats the best way or if there is a visual cue to hit the F2 after BF2mb in the grinnin' barret variation mid screen? i'm having problems findind a consistent way to hit that sweet spot that lets you combo 2 D12 after the F2!

 

[ATIWAB]

Pretty new to TYM and NRS games in general, so im not sure if i should drop this question here, but does anyone know whats the best way or if there is a visual cue to hit the F2 after BF2mb in the grinnin' barret variation mid screen? i'm having problems findind a consistent way to hit that sweet spot that lets you combo 2 D12 after the F2!

Double-forward first to dash.

It should look something like:

BF2 Amp -> FF -> F2 -> FF D1,2 D1,2xxDB1,1,1,1,1,2

If you're trying to walk forward instead of dashing you'll miss it a lot more.

If you're already dashing and still having trouble landing it, try the non-optimal F4 connect instead.

 

[J0hnnyMn]

Double-forward first to dash.

It should look something like:

BF2 Amp -> FF -> F2 -> FF D1,2 D1,2xxDB1,1,1,1,1,2

If you're trying to walk forward instead of dashing you'll miss it a lot more.

If you're already dashing and still having trouble landing it, try the non-optimal F4 connect instead.

I can hit the F2 pretty consistently to be honest, the problem is connecting with the second D12 after. Basically, based on the height i get the hit, sometimes the second D12 misses, so i was wondering if there was some sort of cue to guaranteed the juggle. Could depend on the hitbox of the character i'm doing it on? idk if the combo is character specific to be honest

 

[ATIWAB]

I can hit the F2 pretty consistently to be honest, the problem is connecting with the second D12 after. Basically, based on the height i get the hit, sometimes the second D12 misses, so i was wondering if there was some sort of cue to guaranteed the juggle. Could depend on the hitbox of the character i'm doing it on? idk if the combo is character specific to be honest

The variance comes from how early you're hitting the original F2 though, are you F2'ing straight after the BF2 or are you dashing forward first? Dashing makes you hit it earlier in the fall, so the juggle stays a bit higher.

Also, if you're testing against Raiden, try a different character -- his gravity is fucking weird. Noticed it first when confirming the S4 into QG, but have tested other things on him too and he just falls/flies differently.

 

[J0hnnyMn]

The variance comes from how early you're hitting the original F2 though, are you F2'ing straight after the BF2 or are you dashing forward first? Dashing makes you hit it earlier in the fall, so the juggle stays a bit higher.

Also, if you're testing against Raiden, try a different character -- his gravity is fucking weird. Noticed it first when confirming the S4 into QG, but have tested other things on him too and he just falls/flies differently.

I'm a little picky with these things. When doing dash cancels you can pretty much decide at what frame of the dash input the move. So if was wondering, do you cancel as soon as possible, or there's a specific distance jax as so move before doing the F2 ?

ALso idk if its worse then Raiden, but Jaqui hurtbox is pretty dumb too

 

[wsj515]

You realize a video was posted earlier in this same thread, right?

Yes, you can poke out of it after block.

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Go back to the lab.

You can't reversal poke. That's the point. What's happening here is that Shao Khan is letting go of block/neutral ducking the grab, then poking. It's a really important distinction, and am happy to explain why if you decide you actually want to know and learn the character, rather than continuing to spew misinformation. Just play GB if you hate the grab so much, its a better variation if you never use the grab.

You have no business telling someone to go back to the lab when you actually thought that quad grab did 7% with no resources. Hilarious.